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      05-14-2014, 01:41 PM   #1
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X5 M and X6 M not developed by BMW M GmbH?

I'm not sure if anyone here can confirm with credible sources, but I read this in Wikipedia:

"The BMW X5 and X6 sport activity vehicles received M derivatives for the 2010 model year onwards. These are the first M vehicles with xDrive four-wheel drive and automatic transmissions, and also the first M-badged SUV models. However, the E70 and E71 X5 and X6 M were actually developed by BMW Group rather than by BMW M."

There wasn't any source for this statement, but the press release of the X5 M and X6 M didn't specifically state that the X5 M or the X6 M were developed in BMW M GmbH:

" Through this industry-first combination of attributes, the M5 redefined the capabilities of a sedan with levels of power, precision, balance, and linear control never before imaginable. Since then, finding new ways to expand the boundaries of what is possible with existing BMW models has been the singular purpose of the craftsmen at BMW M. Now the BMW X5 M and the BMW X6 M are the first all-wheel-drive models to offer the remarkable performance, dynamic driving experience, athletic design, and premium quality of a BMW M product."

BMW press kit describing the 40 years of M:

"M GmbH also posted significant growth in the sale of sports packages which were meanwhile available for the models of the BMW 1 Series, BMW 3 Series, BMW 5 Series and BMW 6 Series, as well as for the BMW X3 and the BMW X5.

This naturally meant that expansion now really started to take off. The high-performance character of automobiles produced by BMW M GmbH was first transferred to the segment of BMW X models with the BMW X5 M and the BMW X6 M in 2009."

Thoughts?
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      05-14-2014, 04:17 PM   #2
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They were developed and tested by BMW M under Ludwig Willisch the current CEO of BMW North America.
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      05-15-2014, 07:28 PM   #3
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They were also the most successful(sales wise) ///M cars of all time! BMW made a ton off of these two models. So it makes a business case for more of these types of products from ///M in the future.
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      05-16-2014, 07:03 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
They were also the most successful(sales wise) ///M cars of all time! BMW made a ton off of these two models. So it makes a business case for more of these types of products from ///M in the future.
Correct. They call the X5M and X6M volume models because they sell in high volume compared to other M models.
In some strategically key markets the X-Ms outsell the other M models by a considerable margin.
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      05-16-2014, 08:12 PM   #5
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which is the reason for cars such as the M235... lol... we will see many more of M badges on all kinds of different cars.. so sad... but inevitable because of the $$$, cant blame them.

This is in no way a bad review of the m235.. I actually like it but didn't like the fact they badged it.. but lets be real it just a 235 sport model..
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      05-17-2014, 12:52 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wuzupfoo View Post
..but lets be real it just a 235 sport model..
I haven't driven it yet - kinda hard to find one right now - bury I hear that one is different.
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      05-17-2014, 05:45 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Correct. They call the X5M and X6M volume models because they sell in high volume compared to other M models.
In some strategically key markets the X-Ms outsell the other M models by a considerable margin.
And these cars are more expensive than other traditional and "true" M models like M3 and M5. Shows that the market has
  • no interest in small sport cars, because they'd prefer a Golf GTI/GTD
  • no interest in mid-sized sport cars, because they'd prefer a 911 (which is inferior to a Cayman)
  • no interest in supercars, because they prefer the snobbish Ferrari badge

Too bad for BMW (Z4 M), Audi (Quattro or R4), Honda (S2000), Alfa Romeo (GTV/6C), Toyota (Supra), Mazda (MX- and RX Line), McLaren (P13), and many others.
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      06-11-2014, 02:15 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wuzupfoo View Post
which is the reason for cars such as the M235... lol... we will see many more of M badges on all kinds of different cars.. so sad... but inevitable because of the $$$, cant blame them.

This is in no way a bad review of the m235.. I actually like it but didn't like the fact they badged it.. but lets be real it just a 235 sport model..


My sentiments exactly. I understand that BMW needs to do what it needs to do to remain independent, but I feel like actually badging the cars is prostituting the M brand a little too much. I wish they just sold the M235i as a ZHP "Performance Package" like the E46 330i.
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      06-11-2014, 01:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surewin View Post


My sentiments exactly. I understand that BMW needs to do what it needs to do to remain independent, but I feel like actually badging the cars is prostituting the M brand a little too much. I wish they just sold the M235i as a ZHP "Performance Package" like the E46 330i.
This is hardly the first time BMW has gone out and used the M badge on a car that's not a "real" M (this is an M535i)


I was on another forum talking about this. BMW comes out with a FWD 2er Active Tourer, everyone revolts. BMW comes out with a small coupe, I6, available with 6MT and everyone freaks out over the M badge and "fake" sound. I know which one I'd be more upset about
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      06-12-2014, 01:59 PM   #10
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So M is not the most powerful letter anymore. Auto companies need to evolve in order to survive. They can sell more M package Bimmer than a true M and in doing so, they have more earnings. More money means more research for a better true M, I hope. That is how the Porsche Cayenne saved the 911.
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      06-12-2014, 05:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by valeram View Post
More money means more research for a better true M, I hope.
Won't happen, at least with Norbert Reithofer running the show. He is clearly laser focused on boosting share price and sales volumes, at just about any cost.
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      06-30-2014, 01:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
This is hardly the first time BMW has gone out and used the M badge on a car that's not a "real" M (this is an M535i)


I was on another forum talking about this. BMW comes out with a FWD 2er Active Tourer, everyone revolts. BMW comes out with a small coupe, I6, available with 6MT and everyone freaks out over the M badge and "fake" sound. I know which one I'd be more upset about
True- I'm not that upset over the badging because overall, the M235i is still a wonderful car. Heck, it scored 98/100 in the consumer reports.

http://jalopnik.com/consumer-reports...-po-1597915268

The FWD deal, in the other hand, is simply not acceptable- haha
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      06-30-2014, 01:49 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surewin View Post
True- I'm not that upset over the badging because overall, the M235i is still a wonderful car. Heck, it scored 98/100 in the consumer reports.

http://jalopnik.com/consumer-reports...-po-1597915268

The FWD deal, in the other hand, is simply not acceptable- haha
That I can for sure agree with. They should have just kept FWD with MINI's.
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      02-21-2015, 02:00 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
They were developed and tested by BMW M under Ludwig Willisch the current CEO of BMW North America.
Do you mind citing the source you got this from? I had trouble finding it myself. Thanks!
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      02-21-2015, 02:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dackelone View Post
They were also the most successful(sales wise) ///M cars of all time! BMW made a ton off of these two models. So it makes a business case for more of these types of products from ///M in the future.
And it also allows them to compete in Motorsport, which is just as important to me! That's the reason why I'm not too against BMW for making these cars.
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      02-21-2015, 07:16 PM   #16
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The previous E70M and E71M were conceived under the guidance of former M CEO Ludwig Willisch the current CEO of BMW North America.
Willisch is also the engineer that started development on the current F10 M BMW M5 before passing to successor Dr Kay Segler to complete along with the M6.
Segler was responsible for the BMW M3 GTS and BMW 1er M Coupe and started early conception on the BMW M3 and M4 Coupe. And the BMW M Performance vehicles.
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      08-04-2015, 01:53 PM   #17
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I thought this article from Roundel would be interesting to show where the X5 M and the X6 M fall in terms of BMW's M philosophy:

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      08-05-2015, 10:09 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surewin View Post
I thought this article from Roundel would be interesting to show where the X5 M and the X6 M fall in terms of BMW's M philosophy:

Exactly.
I didn't understand these vehicles until I spent time with them. They are incredible and allow one to carry cargo and 4 adults in extreme comfort and at very high speeds over paved roads. (The Top Gear review of the basic X6 notwithstanding. ) The flexibility of the engines are fantastic and the ability to cover ground in a downpour is nothing short of astounding. They present a case...a VERY STRONG CASE for AWD in M cars. If the execution is as good as this, we have nothing to fear. I own an X5 3.5i and marvel at the flexibility of the vehicle in all circumstances while still being able to haul xxx.

I love these vehicles and had to eat lot's of crow based on my first and VERY WRONG impressions of these vehicles. They are true M vehicles.

Cheers-mk
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      08-06-2015, 04:07 PM   #19
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Can't wait to hear someone say that at a local meet "Bro your X5M isn't even a real ///M", meanwhile driving a 2000 323Ci in plastidip.
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      08-07-2015, 03:10 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
This is hardly the first time BMW has gone out and used the M badge on a car that's not a "real" M (this is an M535i)
[IMG]http://www.automotiveinfopage.com/BM...s/stripes2.jpg[/IMG]

I was on another forum talking about this. BMW comes out with a FWD 2er Active Tourer, everyone revolts. BMW comes out with a small coupe, I6, available with 6MT and everyone freaks out over the M badge and "fake" sound. I know which one I'd be more upset about
You brought up the M535i more than once.
& this is exactly what BMW wants, for the MPAs (like the M235i) to be associated with that fine automobile.

The M535i was not just a 5er with a sport package.
It was available only with a manual trans and was equipped with an LSD and a larger motor.
Chassis and suspension components were modified, wheels were BBS alloys, and seats were made by Recaro.
Much of it was also hand assembled at the BMW Motorsport GmbH facility in Garching.
The car was actually quite different and special compared to the standard 535i.
Where it fell short of being a "full" Motorsport vehicle was that the motor was a derivative of the M30 and not bespoke.
That all changed when they took the same formula above but stuck the M1's motor into the engine bay with the first M5.

Based on the above formula, neither the M235i or the X5M / X6M are similar in philosophy or construction.
The only thing they have in common is the "M" badge whilst not being full M-cars. But understand that the M535i was developed by BMW Motorsport GmbH as a special vehicle, not as a mass production consumable.
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      08-07-2015, 03:29 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Law View Post
You brought up the M535i more than once.
& this is exactly what BMW wants, for the MPAs (like the M235i) to be associated with that fine automobile.

The M535i was not just a 5er with a sport package.
It was available only with a manual trans and was equipped with an LSD and a larger motor.
Chassis and suspension components were modified, wheels were BBS alloys, and seats were made by Recaro.
Much of it was also hand assembled at the BMW Motorsport GmbH facility in Garching.
The car was actually quite different and special compared to the standard 535i.
Where it fell short of being a "full" Motorsport vehicle was that the motor was a derivative of the M30 and not bespoke.
That all changed when they took the same formula above but stuck the M1's motor into the engine bay with the first M5.

Based on the above formula, neither the M235i or the X5M / X6M are similar in philosophy or construction.
The only thing they have in common is the "M" badge whilst not being full M-cars. But understand that they were developed by BMW Motorsport GmbH as a special vehicle, not as a mass production consumable.
thank you. finally someone who knows what the M535i was all about!

the M235i is nothing like the M535i in development or in spirit....
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      08-07-2015, 03:41 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wuzupfoo View Post
which is the reason for cars such as the M235... lol... we will see many more of M badges on all kinds of different cars.. so sad... but inevitable because of the $$$, cant blame them.

This is in no way a bad review of the m235.. I actually like it but didn't like the fact they badged it.. but lets be real it just a 235 sport model..
It isn't the first time they've done it.
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