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      05-09-2014, 08:23 PM   #45
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Haha^ Nice video but two things strike me, 1st he does know the proper gearbox and 2nd he doesnt like the engine, Well the engines EVERYTHING!
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      05-09-2014, 08:59 PM   #46
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I priced out a M4 equipped like my M3 plus ceramic brakes - $88k. The sticker on my car was $78k and change. I know that the retail list for the S65 is ~ $25k, the retail for the gussied up twin turbo N54 in my 335is was ~ $11k; what do you think the cost of the S55 is ? Do you think that BMW is profiteering by charging more for a car with a cheaper engine?
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      05-09-2014, 10:44 PM   #47
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The only cars I can think of that are similar would be the Camaro Z/28 and Mustang Boss. But you'd have to be willing to take a step back in build quality and the interior.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      05-09-2014, 11:26 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarThaL View Post
Apples and oranges. Pure sports cars vs. luxury performance cars
True. But not everyone wants to pay more for a slower car just to have more leather on the dash or some rear sunshade that retracts with a button. And really, a modern Vette or GTR interior isn't really all that lacking in luxuries and features either.

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Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
I think the new M3/4 will be a better car for anyone who daily drives it. But for the spirited drives and track days, the E9x M3 is still sublime..
based on what? The new car is lighter, has more grip, better suspension , better brakes, and more torque than the older car. I fail to see what makes the E90 a better track and driver's car than the F80.
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      05-09-2014, 11:27 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by aus View Post
The only cars I can think of that are similar would be the Camaro Z/28 and Mustang Boss. But you'd have to be willing to take a step back in build quality and the interior.
similar to what? Those cars are meant to be track cars only with very little if any daily driving. The M3/M4 are meant to be primarily driven on the road, with the occasional track day.
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      05-09-2014, 11:44 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Petros View Post
True. New M's are facing much stiffer competition, and I don't think bmw really improved the new M3 enough to be competitive in today's market. when the E92 came out it was almost as good as the Porsche 911. Nowadays that isn't really the case any more. If someone needs a sedan then the F80 M3 is still a good choice. But in terms of 2 door coupes, I'd much rather have a C7 corvette or GTR instead of an M4
MUCH stiffer competition.
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      05-10-2014, 12:11 AM   #51
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I don't care how fast that m4 is. I hate the way the car sounds. Sounds so ricey when it makes the fart noises. I cannot get past how special the s65 is . I cannot accept the new engine. Pure and simple. I do not need to drive a m4 to know I love a scream of a v8 more.
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      05-10-2014, 12:20 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Candide13 View Post
F8x:
Quantum leap in technology. Never more luxurious, efficient, or speed-capable.
Nice little summary across the models but completely disagree with the bold part. First I6 in an M3, no, first turbo in an M, no, first DCT in an M3, no, first use of carbon fiber in an M3, no (that was the E46 in the front bumper rail), first CF driveshaft in an M3, yes (but also done but Nissan have put these in relatively pedestrian passenger vehicles for about a decade). Please identify the leap in tech, let along a Quantum leap...

The new car does appear to have the most results in the chassis, lower CG, rigidly attached subframes, great suspension, improved (lower seating). The car is a perfect match for the S65. Engine thrill (in addition to raw performance) matters and the car is (without any surprise) a let down here.
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      05-10-2014, 12:26 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
I think the new M3/4 will be a better car for anyone who daily drives it. But for the spirited drives and track days, the E9x M3 is still sublime. I'd love to own both, but hate the idea of sticking with the M3 or BMW again when there are so many other great cars to experience out there. I really need to get myself into a mid or rear engined car next.
I could see Porsche coming your way.
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      05-10-2014, 12:39 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by Prowess Symphony View Post
A used GTR is similar in price range and being that kids are far off in my future I don't consider not having a backseat as a bad thing. The M3/M4 is probably going to turn out to be a great overall package as it always is but I don't want a great overall package I want a pure sports car which BMW doesn't currently offer. And as a BMW and M fan I'd like my sports car needs to be filled by BMW but they are stuck making grand tourers. Is it too much to want a car from BMW that competes with the 911, GTR, Stingray, etc and hauling around a bunch of kids/groceries isn't a factor in it's construction? The M3/M4 is the minivans of sports cars. Still gonna be my next car most likely! I just wanted something visceral and more of a pure sports car.
That's what the GTS is for but they want your left nut for it because its not mass produced....
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      05-10-2014, 01:40 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiantm3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prowess Symphony View Post
A used GTR is similar in price range and being that kids are far off in my future I don't consider not having a backseat as a bad thing. The M3/M4 is probably going to turn out to be a great overall package as it always is but I don't want a great overall package I want a pure sports car which BMW doesn't currently offer. And as a BMW and M fan I'd like my sports car needs to be filled by BMW but they are stuck making grand tourers. Is it too much to want a car from BMW that competes with the 911, GTR, Stingray, etc and hauling around a bunch of kids/groceries isn't a factor in it's construction? The M3/M4 is the minivans of sports cars. Still gonna be my next car most likely! I just wanted something visceral and more of a pure sports car.
Right so the M3/4 isn't targeted to you. Why compromise and buy one anyways? There are so many better sports cars out there. Life is too short to just keep driving M3's if there are other cars that would satisfy your needs/wants better. I feel like a lot of people here keep buying M3's mainly for the community...which I suppose can be a valid reason too?
A lot of those better performance cars are not as good daily drivers though. The m3 is a good mix of performance,looks, luxury and being practical.
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      05-10-2014, 02:48 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuddman View Post
The reviews I've read are positive and the car is being well received. From the comments, the car is stacking up to be what BMW has said it would be - the most track ready M car they've ever built. But these are only the first test. There are more to come and, to me, the most important is it's earned reputation. That's going to take awhile.
One reviewer noted the car was a good successor to the E9x Ms. To me, that conclusion is a very premature. Through repeated testing over the years, the E9X M cars have earned a strong and enviable reputation. Looking back, it seems to me, many cars have attempted to make a public impression by comparing their performance against the E9X. Even after the 6 years of production. Whether the new M cars can withstand the long term testing is an open question, which, when answered, will determine whether or not it is a worthy successor.

well put. The reputation of the e9x M is immense. A lot of great competition and great cars out there and the M is def one of them in all respects
I tend to agree. I truly wonder how many F8x proponents have actually driven the e92M3. I know there are many that are quick to bash, but I question the ratio of those who actually have had time behind the wheel of a low optioned 6 speed e92,
The new gen will be a different beast.
But if you've driven/owned a V8 M3, you know what you know.
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      05-10-2014, 04:29 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GVFlyer View Post
I priced out a M4 equipped like my M3 plus ceramic brakes - $88k. The sticker on my car was $78k and change. I know that the retail list for the S65 is ~ $25k, the retail for the gussied up twin turbo N54 in my 335is was ~ $11k; what do you think the cost of the S55 is ? Do you think that BMW is profiteering by charging more for a car with a cheaper engine?
Remove the ceramic brakes and the comparison is closer. I'll bet you also included LED lights, which makes it even closer. If the S55 has no reliability issues such as connecting rod bearings, turbos, wastegages, and dirty intake valves I might order a new M4.
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      05-10-2014, 04:34 AM   #58
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I think I'm done buying M cars. The S65 is incredible. If I decide to buy another high performance car, it will be normally aspirated and high revving.
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      05-10-2014, 06:44 AM   #59
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Sutcliffe said it, no more real M engine, so now let's hold on to our beloved S65 for as long as we can! That's what I will do!
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      05-10-2014, 12:45 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezio View Post
I don't care how fast that m4 is. I hate the way the car sounds. Sounds so ricey when it makes the fart noises. I cannot get past how special the s65 is . I cannot accept the new engine. Pure and simple. I do not need to drive a m4 to know I love a scream of a v8 more.
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...-amg-spy-video

Listen to that at the 50 second to 1:00 minute mark.
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      05-10-2014, 03:51 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev ///Me
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezio View Post
I don't care how fast that m4 is. I hate the way the car sounds. Sounds so ricey when it makes the fart noises. I cannot get past how special the s65 is . I cannot accept the new engine. Pure and simple. I do not need to drive a m4 to know I love a scream of a v8 more.
http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...-amg-spy-video

Listen to that at the 50 second to 1:00 minute mark.
Sounds Better than the m4 already.
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      05-10-2014, 05:54 PM   #62
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The F8X M3/M4 is better than the E9X M3 in all performance categories. You're in denial if you can't accept this. The only thing lacking is the engine sound due to turbo charging. The S55 out performs the S65, but it can't produce the aural sensation of the S54 or S65. I don't think this will be a deal breaker for me as either the MPE or an aftermarket exhaust will fill in the majority of the aural gap.
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      05-10-2014, 06:12 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bdaddylo
The F8X M3/M4 is better than the E9X M3 in all performance categories. You're in denial if you can't accept this. The only thing lacking is the engine sound due to turbo charging. The S55 out performs the S65, but it can't produce the aural sensation of the S54 or S65. I don't think this will be a deal breaker for me as either the MPE or an aftermarket exhaust will fill in the majority of the aural gap.
A lot of people have come to this conclusion that a aftermarket setup will make the m4 a lot better. IMO I have yet to hear any i6 BMW engine with a full exhaust that i loved. You put a full exhaust e92 next to a full exhaust m4 it's still no contest for the e92. I refuse to settle.
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      05-10-2014, 06:16 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by bdaddylo
The F8X M3/M4 is better than the E9X M3 in all performance categories. You're in denial if you can't accept this. The only thing lacking is the engine sound due to turbo charging. The S55 out performs the S65, but it can't produce the aural sensation of the S54 or S65. I don't think this will be a deal breaker for me as either the MPE or an aftermarket exhaust will fill in the majority of the aural gap.
Agreed on the performance part, but disagree slightly with you qualifying the engine sound is the only downside. I'd say the engine as a whole could be a downgrade. More power and torque? Sure, more linear power delivery, more responsive, better suited for track use? I'm not so sure...
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      05-10-2014, 06:23 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GVFlyer View Post
I priced out a M4 equipped like my M3 plus ceramic brakes - $88k. The sticker on my car was $78k and change. I know that the retail list for the S65 is ~ $25k, the retail for the gussied up twin turbo N54 in my 335is was ~ $11k; what do you think the cost of the S55 is ? Do you think that BMW is profiteering by charging more for a car with a cheaper engine?
That really is the ENTIRE reason for the switch to a turbo six. They said it was for gas mileage. BS IMHO. We don't buy M cars for gas mileage, we buy them for driving pleasure. The S55 while heavily improved is still based on N55. The natural "right" engine for the M4 should have been the S65 in theM3 GTS at 4.4L and 450hp. The saddest part is it was already produced...
It makes me sad...
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      05-10-2014, 09:45 PM   #66
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Agreed on the performance part, but disagree slightly with you qualifying the engine sound is the only downside. I'd say the engine as a whole could be a downgrade. More power and torque? Sure, more linear power delivery, more responsive, better suited for track use? I'm not so sure...
The power delivery alone is better for track use. More torque at lower rpms means less shifting which results in faster lap times. I'm pretty sure BMW underrated the S55 just like they did with all their other turbo engines, so the power difference is greater than what's being advertised. Also, with an 1,800 rpm peak power plateau, you're always at full power after each up shift which means faster lap times.

The unknown is the cooling system. Can the cooling system keep up with prolonged high engine speed and maximum turbo boost driving? Don't forget that the S65 paired with the DCT has cooling issues at the track.
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