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      11-24-2007, 11:29 PM   #1
ruff
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Auto Express M3 long term test

As seen here:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carrevi...82/bmw_m3.html
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      11-24-2007, 11:35 PM   #2
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Scathing review for how good an M3 is supposed to be.

I still think I'll get one, though.
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      11-24-2007, 11:46 PM   #3
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Wow. I think that article is just pure BS. They clearly are discussing non issues with the car.

Quote:
But the cabin is underwhelming. Aside from the subtle M branding, it’s basically the same as in the standard 3-Series Coupé.
Arguing that it's interior isn't much different than a normal 3 series...? That is how every M3 is, we all know that. The M3 always runs a low profile compared to a normal 3, thats just how it has always been. I've seen other articles say that it doesn't look much different than a normal 3, I lawl inside when i hear statements like this. They try to knock it on a intentional design characteristic.

Quote:
Even with my motorsport background, I’ve found it hard to love the M3. Its limits are so high, they’re not accessible on public roads, so it’s less engaging to drive than it should be. It really is a case of technological overkill.
First time I've ever seen a journalist burn a car for being "too" capable on roads since its limits can never be met. If anything I think that makes the car even more worth having. Not to mention that alot of other sources have said that the M3 is VERY easy to drive and have fun with.

I'm sorry but that article is pure rubbish.
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      11-25-2007, 12:07 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateBMW View Post
First time I've ever seen a journalist burn a car for being "too" capable on roads since its limits can never be met.
+1. That was a particularly weak point they attempted to make. It sounds like they would enjoy themselves in a resonating tin box that makes a lot of noise on public roads but doesn't really accomplish much in the process.

I do share their opinion on the benign interior, but there clearly are qualities in this car to offset that.

They do admit at the end that the car simply doesn't meet their expectations and that's why they didn't like it. Fine, but what were their expectations? What kind of a car 4-person daily driver vehicle would they design if they could?
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      11-25-2007, 12:46 AM   #5
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the guys at autoexpress are audi fans.
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      11-25-2007, 03:08 AM   #6
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Agree with much of the ^.

These guys at Autoexpress are always full of contradictions. I suppose there are some valid reasons for not liking this car. Personally, from what I know today (given that I haven't driven it yet) I find it pretty darn hard to find much about the car to not like. All of the +'s are then amplified for the performance to dollar you get in this class.

Autoexpress are the same jokers with the early RS4 vs. M3 "test" here, which was really a lot of drivel. Many of us pointed out contradiction after contradiction in the test. I particularly liked my laundy list of problems with the article here. If they are big Audi fans and a bit anti-BMW this is probably more or less what I would expect from them.
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      11-25-2007, 03:47 AM   #7
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Autoexpress and Autocar are not anti-BMW and pro-Audi, if you read every review that has compared both brands together through the last couple of years you will see as much. The norm is for BMW to win with Audi coming either second or third if the test includes other cars. The reason for this has always been that Audis in the past haven't delivered on the driver's front and finally things are changing on this.

It started with the RS4, then the R8 which have both been praised for offering real driver involvement and TT a little less so. So while Audi were praised for their inside design, quality of controls and looks over that of BMW, the Beemer was always sure to win the review pure on driver involvement, but now against Audis which still beat the Beemer on all the above it also proving involving to drive it's proving harder for reviewers to vote for the BMW now as it not the only driver's tool.

It's not a case that the BMW is getting worse, it now a case that other brands are getting better and closer to what BMW has always been regarded best at.

P.S.

I have read the EVO long term review and so far the M3 is proving very good.
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      11-25-2007, 05:06 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruff View Post
Haven't seen you here a lot recently. Took a little break?

Does this review get you down much or turn you away from the car more? When looking at the majority of journalists chiming in on the M3 vs. RS4 the M3 does emerge as #1 in the large majority of the cases. That comment in the article about the 535d Touring M sport was indeed pretty brutal.
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      11-25-2007, 06:35 AM   #9
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Watch this for those who are looking forward to their M3, I laughed, it's funny.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallp...AR=229326&CT=V
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      11-25-2007, 08:53 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by footie View Post
Watch this for those who are looking forward to their M3, I laughed, it's funny.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/VideosWallp...AR=229326&CT=V
Posted in video section, and is being discussed here:

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97391
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      11-25-2007, 10:12 AM   #11
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I used to look at the interior trashing with a grain of salt, but now I just blame it on beige. Savage.ulm's interior shot is fantastic.

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      11-25-2007, 10:55 AM   #12
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LOL, and again, booooooring. Everytime this 'is it any good?' crap comes up I'll post the same challenge...

Show me a bought new, <£55,000, V8, 400bhp plus, 6MT, 2 door coupe from a quality marque that will go sideways one minute and then, with the flick of a button, take me 300 miles and back in comfort and at speed with my wife and 2 sons in the car that I can track at the weekend and I'll seriously consider buying one instead of the M3.

New M3 is unique, bugger all on the market that offers the same for the same money, period. Not till the RS5 appears, assuming it will be the same price. Until then, the M3 has the market to itself.

Now, here come the posts saying 'Rs4' or 'C63' or 'Lexus' or other such twaddle. Someone will say '997'. So I'll point out the following now:

4 doors
Automatic box
Rebadged Toyota
Not for £55000 new

Carry on.

Oh, and that interior looks classy, upmarket, quality and comfortable. Great place to spend a few hours.
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      11-25-2007, 11:43 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
+1. That was a particularly weak point they attempted to make. It sounds like they would enjoy themselves in a resonating tin box that makes a lot of noise on public roads but doesn't really accomplish much in the process.

I do share their opinion on the benign interior, but there clearly are qualities in this car to offset that.

They do admit at the end that the car simply doesn't meet their expectations and that's why they didn't like it. Fine, but what were their expectations? What kind of a car 4-person daily driver vehicle would they design if they could?
i'm sure they would design a rs4 , because they are audi fans!! They're reviw sounds like it's made by girls.'the car revs too much, i don't like the interior' . they are gay!!!
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      11-25-2007, 12:13 PM   #14
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Putting the aesthetics aside (BS in my opinion), they seem to be complaining about what some others are saying regarding the driving experience - that the new M3 is less involving and fun than the RS4....because of the disappointing steering feel and the fact that to really enjoy this car you have to drive it in the upper rev bands -and- up to 100 mph, the M3 feels pretty much like a 335. Regarding their expectations, this is disappointing for what an M3 is supposed to deliver...... only my interpretation.

Even with this said, the M3 is still on my shopping list along with a couple of its competitors.
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      11-25-2007, 01:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carnuts3 View Post
Putting the aesthetics aside (BS in my opinion), they seem to be complaining about what some others are saying regarding the driving experience - that the new M3 is less involving and fun than the RS4....because of the disappointing steering feel and the fact that to really enjoy this car you have to drive it in the upper rev bands -and- up to 100 mph, the M3 feels pretty much like a 335. Regarding their expectations, this is disappointing for what an M3 is supposed to deliver...... only my interpretation.

Even with this said, the M3 is still on my shopping list along with a couple of its competitors.
I think that is a pretty good assessment of why some are finding the M3 disappointing. There is no doubt that in the lower and middle part of the rev range that the RS4 does sound more exciting and it's only over the last 1000rpm that the M3 makes it's mark as the nicer sounding engine. The RS4 does feel a little more pointy than the M3 but this might be more down to the fact that it is awd because I found the same difference between the S5 and the 335i. The rest of it, steering feel, gear change are all very objective, I personally found the M3 perfectly fine on both counts and the actual steering wheel which many found too thick I thought felt great and very grippy.

I would say that unless you are ringing it's neck the 335i will feel equally as good and the RS4 might feel that little bit better, but on both counts it's only up to a point and that point is 7000rpm.
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      11-25-2007, 01:45 PM   #16
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Perfect, I hope we get more reviews like this, so the waiting lists shrink and they sell less M3s, so mine will then be more unique.
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      11-25-2007, 05:24 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leg View Post
Show me a bought new, <55,000, V8, 400bhp plus, 6MT, 2 door coupe from a quality marque that will go sideways one minute and then, with the flick of a button, take me 300 miles and back in comfort and at speed with my wife and 2 sons in the car that I can track at the weekend and I'll seriously consider buying one instead of the M3.
game set match
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      11-25-2007, 05:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateBMW View Post
First time I've ever seen a journalist burn a car for being "too" capable on roads since its limits can never be met. If anything I think that makes the car even more worth having. Not to mention that alot of other sources have said that the M3 is VERY easy to drive and have fun with.

This makes absolute sense guys. Most of the M3's power comes when you hit higher revs, and this thing revs till 8250! in most real world circumstances, you aren't going to take the car that far up in the revs, you simply won't be able to if because of traffic, twisty roads etc...

it's going to be really hard to enjoy the M part of this car day to day if its all stuck in higher revs that you can't get to on a daily basis.
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      11-25-2007, 06:09 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x5love View Post
This makes absolute sense guys. Most of the M3's power comes when you hit higher revs, and this thing revs till 8250! in most real world circumstances, you aren't going to take the car that far up in the revs, you simply won't be able to if because of traffic, twisty roads etc...

it's going to be really hard to enjoy the M part of this car day to day if its all stuck in higher revs that you can't get to on a daily basis.
I disagree. What is the alternative to a high revving engine? A lower revving engine with more low-end torque such as the C63 AMG engine. And what exactly would one do with a lower revving engine with more low end torque? Burn outs at intersections or super zippy 0-40 mph take-offs? Let's face it, regardless of the redline or torque delivery characteristics, it's not possible to explore the limits of a "high performance" engine on regular public roads unless you don't mind putting people at risk. If you really want to explore the limits, you either find an isolated back road or go to the track. So marking the M3 in this respect it irrelevant as that condition applies to all high performance cars in its class.
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      11-25-2007, 06:11 PM   #20
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It's hard to enjoy almost any car in "real traffic" in a city like New Orleans. Even a 328 is overkill, much less a 335. Those arguments against the M3 are always bunk -- My old honda civic with 140 hp and a stick shift gets around just fine for 95%+ of "daily driver" moments. I really appreciate the car more when I am swerving and accelerating to avoid cellphone-using SUV drivers.

Hypothetically, if I take a certain large set of turns on my route to work at double the speed limit if only to laugh at the SUV's trying to race me every f***ing morning (all hypothetical) then I'd prefer the M3 as my ride.

Seriously, nobody in a performance car in New Orleans stoplight races me (we all just go along our merry way), it's all the pent-up frustrated powerless people driving Suburbans. I don't know why, maybe they see the child seat in my M3 and become pissed they have to drive such a boat to haul their kids around. OTOH, maybe they just want to drive their mpg to below 5.
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      11-25-2007, 06:12 PM   #21
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The article is a little sketchy to say the least....

The first line says "they are pleased to admit" the new M left them cold?

I may be off the mark but the article appears to be biased. I am willing to admit that most journalists as human beings probably have biases which is why I enjoy the BMW journalists the best, but that article appears to sway heavely in favor of the RS4.

Jason
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      11-25-2007, 06:40 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ruff View Post
The bias of this assessment aside, isn't any else in the U.S. a bit cheesed by the fact that magazines in the UK are already providing long term ownership impressions and BMW can't even give us a firm price? Does federalizing a car for U.S. sale really take that long or is this just a logistics/production situation? I'll close with this >> :sad0147:
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