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      04-12-2014, 03:40 PM   #23
Wolfinwolfsclothing
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Originally Posted by LarThaL View Post
With regards to the engine, I am not talking about performance, only subjective feel. The Porsche motors don't have the silky easy revving character of the M3's V8. Other than that, I agree that the 991S is overall in a different league than the M3. Of course, my opinion is only based on a couple of test drives. I have never had the 991 for any extended period of time.
Not sure I completely agree as the porsche has vario cam plus which I am guessing is why you felt this way. But I don't think it takes away from the smooth power of the flat 6 but enhances it especially when it does kick in at high rpm.

I find the GT3 motors to be the most smooth in their linear power but I also feel like the flat 6 just gives you more kick in the seat of your pants which the m3 doesn't.

Overall, the 9A1 motor just feels (and sounds) like a more special engine than the s65 (as good as it is) in either form and when combined with the precision, feel and far superior balance of the 991 chassis it's just south more thrilling to drive in any situation. You can tell the r&d that went into that car was immense. Short of a 918 or p1 and maybe the 458 I don't think I've ever driven a more well thought out near perfect car.

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      04-12-2014, 08:51 PM   #24
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If you don't need the extra space/practicality of the M3, DO IT!!! I recently sold my E92 M3 for my first Porsche... there are definitely some things I miss about the M3, but for pure driving enjoyment there is no substitute... I drove the C7 Corvette and I respect it, but it wasn't the car for me. If you're after pure numbers, its pretty hard to match the C7. If you're looking for driving satisfaction I think its hard to beat the 981 Cayman S/GTS.
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      04-13-2014, 12:59 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdogg2000 View Post
If you don't need the extra space/practicality of the M3, DO IT!!! I recently sold my E92 M3 for my first Porsche... there are definitely some things I miss about the M3, but for pure driving enjoyment there is no substitute... I drove the C7 Corvette and I respect it, but it wasn't the car for me. If you're after pure numbers, its pretty hard to match the C7. If you're looking for driving satisfaction I think its hard to beat the 981 Cayman S/GTS.
jdogg how would you describe the power in your GTS vs the M3?
I test drove a GTS recently but was a little underwhelmed with the engine, leaving me thinking there must have been something wrong with it..
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      04-13-2014, 01:33 PM   #26
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There are tuners that are turbocharging the Cayman S 3.2 flat six with astounding results. Done right the car will outperform a 911 GT3- better acceleration, and way better cornering with the mid engine layout. If you know the GT3's capability, you know this is crazy huge ability.
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      04-13-2014, 01:49 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by OM3N View Post
jdogg how would you describe the power in your GTS vs the M3?
I test drove a GTS recently but was a little underwhelmed with the engine, leaving me thinking there must have been something wrong with it..

Was the GTS manual or PDK?

The power feels stronger in the 911, as I would expect with slightly higher HP/torque (mines currently at ~420 HP/320 lb-ft) in a ~250 pound lighter vehicle, and you also sit lower which makes you feel like you're moving faster. Where the M3 wins is in the sound of the V8 and the DCT. The Porsche engine screams above 5k RPM, but the S65 sounds better everywhere else. The PDK is kind of a letdown after having the DCT also... The DCT you can drive at 75% and still have a blast with the super quick shifts, but PDK doesn't shift aggressively unless you really push it at 100% with pedal to the metal (or else the shifting is kind of lazy).

I've driven the M3 on the track and it is a blast... Looking forward to trying the 911 out there eventually.
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      04-13-2014, 02:05 PM   #28
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My Ol Man has a 981 Cayman S. He upgraded from 997S tip. He doesn't miss a thing from the 997 except for the little pocket of space behind the seats. Amazing car at every level. If I didn't already have an M3 I would consider it. To me moving from the M3 to Cayman S would be a lateral move and what's the point of paying car tax again just to get into a different set of wheels. I would would wait for a Cayman R.
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      04-13-2014, 02:45 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdogg2000 View Post
Was the GTS manual or PDK?

The power feels stronger in the 911, as I would expect with slightly higher HP/torque (mines currently at ~420 HP/320 lb-ft) in a ~250 pound lighter vehicle, and you also sit lower which makes you feel like you're moving faster. Where the M3 wins is in the sound of the V8 and the DCT. The Porsche engine screams above 5k RPM, but the S65 sounds better everywhere else. The PDK is kind of a letdown after having the DCT also... The DCT you can drive at 75% and still have a blast with the super quick shifts, but PDK doesn't shift aggressively unless you really push it at 100% with pedal to the metal (or else the shifting is kind of lazy).

I've driven the M3 on the track and it is a blast... Looking forward to trying the 911 out there eventually.

I find the PDK way more crisp then the DCT, but the PDK needs to be in Sport or Sport Plus, or esle it's purely in economy mode.
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      04-13-2014, 04:19 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by jdogg2000 View Post
If you don't need the extra space/practicality of the M3, DO IT!!! I recently sold my E92 M3 for my first Porsche... there are definitely some things I miss about the M3, but for pure driving enjoyment there is no substitute... I drove the C7 Corvette and I respect it, but it wasn't the car for me. If you're after pure numbers, its pretty hard to match the C7. If you're looking for driving satisfaction I think its hard to beat the 981 Cayman S/GTS.


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      04-13-2014, 04:35 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdogg2000 View Post
Was the GTS manual or PDK?

The power feels stronger in the 911, as I would expect with slightly higher HP/torque (mines currently at ~420 HP/320 lb-ft) in a ~250 pound lighter vehicle, and you also sit lower which makes you feel like you're moving faster. Where the M3 wins is in the sound of the V8 and the DCT. The Porsche engine screams above 5k RPM, but the S65 sounds better everywhere else. The PDK is kind of a letdown after having the DCT also... The DCT you can drive at 75% and still have a blast with the super quick shifts, but PDK doesn't shift aggressively unless you really push it at 100% with pedal to the metal (or else the shifting is kind of lazy).

I've driven the M3 on the track and it is a blast... Looking forward to trying the 911 out there eventually.
PDK is the better tranmission without a doubt but just like the m where it needs to be in s5 or s6 the porsche needs to be in sport/sport plus. In auto mode it never struggles for the right gear like dct does. In either mode it's flat out crisper. The GT3 you simply can't compare to...

Of course the 911 is faster it has close to 100 hp more than a cayman GTS.

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      04-13-2014, 04:44 PM   #32
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I found that, as good as the Cayman S is, I was left always wanting for more power. The car has a fantastic chassis but needs more power. I think the M3 is a better balance between chassis and power. For pretty much all driving situations, I prefer the M3 more.
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      04-13-2014, 05:36 PM   #33
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Of course the 911 is faster it has close to 100 hp more than a cayman GTS.
Uh, he was asking for a comparison between the 911 and M3, not the Cayman GTS...
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      04-13-2014, 06:41 PM   #34
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The only entry level P car that could replace the M3 for me is the 991 911cs...today's menu, tomorrow who knows.
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      04-14-2014, 08:15 AM   #35
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I have a pdk Boxster S, and it's great. But it's good to try both the m3 and the Cayman/Boxster. They have similarities but are very different in many ways, both are excellent cars.


By the way - I know the Cayman is always mentioned more, but the Boxster is practically the same car save the roof. Performance is nearly identical, and it's cheaper.
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      04-14-2014, 11:44 AM   #36
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I think the bottom line is this:

Track/Twisty roads: Cayman
Street: M3

People who feel like the Cayman is underpowered probably measure the car based on daily driving, accelerating from light to light or on the freeway. I think the M3 excels here because of the high revs and engine note. It just feels more exciting to go fast (at least in a straight line). I can almost guarantee that if any proficient driver drove both cars back to back on a road course, they'd probably pick the Cayman S as the better car.

Though the M3 is no slouch in the corners, a lighter, balanced mid-engine car is going to feel so much better in those scenarios. So in the end you just have to figure out where you have the most fun when driving. Obviously this isn't taking into account other things like back seats and cargo space.
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      04-16-2014, 09:44 PM   #37
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I think the bottom line is this:

Track/Twisty roads: Cayman
Street: M3

People who feel like the Cayman is underpowered probably measure the car based on daily driving, accelerating from light to light or on the freeway. I think the M3 excels here because of the high revs and engine note. It just feels more exciting to go fast (at least in a straight line). I can almost guarantee that if any proficient driver drove both cars back to back on a road course, they'd probably pick the Cayman S as the better car.

Though the M3 is no slouch in the corners, a lighter, balanced mid-engine car is going to feel so much better in those scenarios. So in the end you just have to figure out where you have the most fun when driving. Obviously this isn't taking into account other things like back seats and cargo space.
Trap speeds on the current Cayman S vs M3 are VERY similar. I never felt my first gen cayman S ever felt slow. It was faster in a a straight than both my e46 m3s and my z4m. The new one with PDK is quite a fast car which far outperforms its 330 hp on paper. But on a back road, forget it, nearly anything short of cars like the GT3 and 458 would be left behind with relative ease.
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      04-17-2014, 08:29 AM   #38
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OP, do what feels right to you. This conversation will never end with everbody agreeing that the Cayman S is better than the M3.

One day you'll wake up 70 years old and regret not going for it. And that my friend will be one of the saddest days of your life.
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      04-17-2014, 12:25 PM   #39
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OP, do what feels right to you. This conversation will never end with everbody agreeing that the Cayman S is better than the M3.

One day you'll wake up 70 years old and regret not going for it. And that my friend will be one of the saddest days of your life.
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      04-17-2014, 12:39 PM   #40
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I drove the Cayman, both old and new, multiple times on and off track and always enjoyed it. When I purchased the M3, it was a hard decision between the Cayman and the M3. The M3 won because it was more easy to find pre-owned in good condition and it was more practical for daily driving.

I'd only get a Cayman with an LSD. With LSD being offered on the new models and aftermarket support for the last generation ones, this shouldn't be a problem. LSD makes a world of difference in a car's handling.
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      04-17-2014, 01:31 PM   #41
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I drove the Cayman, both old and new, multiple times on and off track and always enjoyed it. When I purchased the M3, it was a hard decision between the Cayman and the M3. The M3 won because it was more easy to find pre-owned in good condition and it was more practical for daily driving.

I'd only get a Cayman with an LSD. With LSD being offered on the new models and aftermarket support for the last generation ones, this shouldn't be a problem. LSD makes a world of difference in a car's handling.
LSD was an available option on the last gen as well, I have one on my '12 Cayman S
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      04-17-2014, 01:34 PM   #42
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LSD was an available option on the last gen as well, I have one on my '12 Cayman S
I was probably thinking the earlier Caymans. I couldn't find a pre-owned Cayman that had LSD when I was looking.
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      04-17-2014, 06:46 PM   #43
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OP, do what feels right to you. This conversation will never end with everbody agreeing that the Cayman S is better than the M3.

One day you'll wake up 70 years old and regret not going for it. And that my friend will be one of the saddest days of your life.
me listening to my heart... I will keep the m3. I just love this car so so much. I spanked a buddies 997 4s sunday omw to an autox on the highway twice(then I got spanked by my other friends c7 >.<) and I just fell in love with my car all over again

edit: I'm 25 btw sooo I have time lol.
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      04-22-2014, 07:49 AM   #44
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Huh? The 3.8 in the 991S is as good or better of an engine in every way. More hp per liter, more tq, just as linear power, and flat out feels more special and sounds better too, especially at high rpms.

The 991, it's chassis, engine and every aspect are on a different planet than anything BMWS ever made. In about 15-20 years Bmw might have something comprable to the current GT3 but will never priced a engine like it has.

The cayman S is a wonderful car. Under 100k NOTHING handles as well. Even price as no object it's possibly the best handling car in the world.

The m3 is a great car but the 991 and cayman S are as close to perfection in the car world as one can get.
I agree. I owned both. My cayman s was the older 987s but it was much more capable than the what it shows on the specs. Porsche really underrates their performance specs.

I still miss my cayman s as it was the best handling car ive ever owned. I did many friendly races with M3s and M5s and the cayman would hold its own from 0-70ish but then it would begin to loose on the top end. That was with the older 295hp CS. The new CS will easily hang with the M3.

The only problem with the Cayman was it looked too much like a chic car and that killed me. I even converted the front end to the GT3 bumper but the body was still too girly looking. I wish the cayman was a bit beefier looking.

OP, you have driven it and love it. I say go buy it. You wont regret it.

One more thing to add, I really love the M3 also especially the looks. For the past 2 years I have been trying to get the M3 to handle like the cayman S. Solid Diff and solid subframe, KW CS, weight redux (stripped rear, and recaro PPs), light exhaust... buts its still not close to the feel of the cayman chassis...however my M3 is pretty fuckn kickass right now, just not as precise and darty feeling.
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Last edited by Wendall; 04-22-2014 at 07:54 AM.
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