After Market Ceramic Brakes?

[UltimateBMW]

Does Brembo make a set? If not... does any after market companies make a ceramic set? If, so then which would be best for a e92 M3?

[chicagobimmerboy]

Probably, I saw a CB kit in European Car magazine awhile back, but count on spending at least $10,000 on the kit depending on rotor size and caliper size.

PS if you want them for a daily driver I wouldnt (they squeal and whine like wounded animals) but they will last up to 190,000 miles!!! no BS

[UltimateBMW]

Eh, the animal dying noise might not bug me. I'd probably see it as making the car more menacing.

That $10k price tag is a bit of a downer though.

[swamp2]

Carbon ceramic brakes are a bit of overkill. They are for folks who can spend $15-$20k on brakes. A nice set of composite (cast iron discs on aluminum hats) floating rotors and any of many aftermarket calipers (AP Racing, Brembo, Wilwood StopTech, etc.) with a good set of aggressive pads will offer the same feel, better cold stoping performance, very close to identical fade free operation and a very long life as well. Most discs can be resurfaced at least once, even if the manufacturer claims you should not resurface them. As long as they are completely smooth, flat and thicker than the minimal allowable thickness resurfacing is fine. You will get all of this for about 1/3 - 1/2 of the price of a carbon ceramic setup.

[JuniorDee]

Stop Tech sells carbon ceramic brakes. Yeah the price it high but you reduce the weight of the rotors by 5 pounds or so and they last the lifetime of the car. It seems that every pound you shave off the rotor costs you about $1000. You can buy the CC brakes for the BMW.

[chicagobimmerboy]

cool, as soon as I get my E92 that will be the first mod (or an exhaust)

[OzStriker]

Just to help anyone making any decisions on this, the BMW Driver Training M3s were lapping a race track all day when I was there and the pedal never felt any different.....Unlike the 325i.....

[!Xoible]

yah i would track the car a few times before i decide brakes are no good

[Jonmartin]

http://www.movit.de/rahmen/ceramic.htm

This place makes kits also.

[Jack28]

Originally Posted by swamp2

Carbon ceramic brakes are a bit of overkill. They are for folks who can spend $15-$20k on brakes. A nice set of composite (cast iron discs on aluminum hats) floating rotors and any of many aftermarket calipers (AP Racing, Brembo, Wilwood StopTech, etc.) with a good set of aggressive pads will offer the same feel, better cold stoping performance, very close to identical fade free operation and a very long life as well. Most discs can be resurfaced at least once, even if the manufacturer claims you should not resurface them. As long as they are completely smooth, flat and thicker than the minimal allowable thickness resurfacing is fine. You will get all of this for about 1/3 - 1/2 of the price of a carbon ceramic setup.

Very Well Said Swamp!

[chicagobimmerboy]

There is a reason why ferrari makes ceramics standard equipment now, the same reason why BMW is working on its CBS system, Ceramic Brake System, yet to be unvield

[rvacha]

Originally Posted by chicagobimmerboy

There is a reason why ferrari makes ceramics standard equipment now, the same reason why BMW is working on its CBS system, Ceramic Brake System, yet to be unvield

Yes, it's called market perception, not market reality

[KonigsTiger]

The F430 has the option of ordering CC brakes but they are not standard equipment. They cost $12K more. The real gain over steel brakes appears to be lowering un-sprung weight, but I honestly could not feel the difference; I've track driven the Porsche 911 TT with both CC and steel brakes and could not feel the difference between these. The instructors agreed but said that lap after lap it may make a difference and they last a lot longer.

Stoptech will have a CC kit out by this summer at about $16K for the E92 M3.

[MagicMtnDan]

99.99% of anyone upgrading to ceramic will never get enough benefit out of them to justify the huge increase in price over a standard BBK.

[Keto]

I enjoy listening to those unknowingly caught in the spell of marketing. It's recently been proved that people enjoy wine more if they know it is more expensive. People will score it less if they think it is cheaper. It has also been shown that merely increasing the tuition of a college will dramatically increase applications.

Thus, expensive carbon brakes must be better for everyone! If they charge that much, it must be worth it, right?

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by Keto

I enjoy listening to those unknowingly caught in the spell of marketing. It's recently been proved that people enjoy wine more if they know it is more expensive. People will score it less if they think it is cheaper. It has also been shown that merely increasing the tuition of a college will dramatically increase applications.

Thus, expensive carbon brakes must be better for everyone! If they charge that much, it must be worth it, right?

+1 Agreed!!!

[Cadillac Johnson]

Brembo makes ceramic discs, but there's no 'kit' with them.

You'd have to get the discs and then whatever Brembo caliber you wanted and piece it together. Any dealer should be able to do it no problem.

That being said, im 99.99999% sure you dont need them. Iron discs are fine, and as a matter of fact, the stock brakes are fine for a vast, vast majority of M3 owners. It's always easy to spot the poseur's, just look for aftermarket BBK's with drilled rotors.

[KonigsTiger]

Originally Posted by Cadillac Johnson

Brembo makes ceramic discs, but there's no 'kit' with them.

You'd have to get the discs and then whatever Brembo caliber you wanted and piece it together. Any dealer should be able to do it no problem.

That being said, im 99.99999% sure you dont need them. Iron discs are fine, and as a matter of fact, the stock brakes are fine for a vast, vast majority of M3 owners. It's always easy to spot the poseur's, just look for aftermarket BBK's with drilled rotors.

I agree you really don't need the ceramic brakes for improved braking etc... the real advantage of ceramic discs is weight savings. I disagree about your poser comment regarding BBK with drilled rotors.

[Starfire_CMC]

http://www.starfiresystems.com/docs/...rld_042010.pdf

[mastek]

Originally Posted by Cadillac Johnson

Brembo makes ceramic discs, but there's no 'kit' with them.

You'd have to get the discs and then whatever Brembo caliber you wanted and piece it together. Any dealer should be able to do it no problem.

That being said, im 99.99999% sure you dont need them. Iron discs are fine, and as a matter of fact, the stock brakes are fine for a vast, vast majority of M3 owners. It's always easy to spot the poseur's, just look for aftermarket BBK's with drilled rotors.

That IS a ceramic BBK ..... it's just the rotors that are different ..... calipers & pads are the same. The rotors are $10-$20k an AXLE.

and +1 on the hype-factor

[Gary_C]

Originally Posted by mastek

That IS a ceramic BBK ..... it's just the rotors that are different ..... calipers & pads are the same. The rotors are $10-$20k an AXLE.

and +1 on the hype-factor

That's actually not true.

Traditionally, the calipers and pads are in fact be different between carbon ceramic brake kits and cast iron.

For example: Porsche offers an optional PCCB upgrade for the majority of their vehicle models. The calipers may be the same between the cast iron option or carbon ceramic option,... BUT,... the calipers were engineered specifically around the ability to be used with carbon ceramic discs and pads.

Also, in the event that you switch to a cast iron replacement disc on a vehicle that came originally equipped with carbon ceramic (which is very common for people who are regularly or aggressively tracking their vehicle) it is mandatory to change the pad compound at the same time.

Carbon ceramic is a brilliant technology, but not quite ready for high-performance aftermarket use, where the driving style, road or surface conditions, intended usage, and vehicle setup can all change regularly. Carbon ceramic brakes work near flawlessly within an specific temperature range and up to mildly aggressive or spirited driving. Outside of that range, most often during heavier and more aggressive track or track like conditions, they are much more susceptible to performance and longevity related issues.

There are a few companies in the process of fighting to be the first aftermarket supplier with a legitimate carbon ceramic offering for aftermarket consumption, unfortunately most of them are not actually manufacturers of the components or directly involved in the development of carbon or carbon ceramic technology, and are simply using trial and error engineering to piece together brake systems.

There are definitely going to be a few people out there who are willing to be early adopters of this technology on their street cars, but there will be a price to pay for signing up to be the "guinea pig" for these companies to actually road test their systems. ME...I'd rather wait until a proper supplier and manufacturer of such technology releases a properly engineered system where they were able to do significant laboratory and road testing with proper engineering, R&D, and failure testing to ensure the product is specifically suited to our type of market.

[mastek]

Originally Posted by Gary_C

That's actually not true.

Traditionally, the calipers and pads are in fact be different between carbon ceramic brake kits and cast iron.

For example: Porsche offers an optional PCCB upgrade for the majority of their vehicle models. The calipers may be the same between the cast iron option or carbon ceramic option,... BUT,... the calipers were engineered specifically around the ability to be used with carbon ceramic discs and pads.

Also, in the event that you switch to a cast iron replacement disc on a vehicle that came originally equipped with carbon ceramic (which is very common for people who are regularly or aggressively tracking their vehicle) it is mandatory to change the pad compound at the same time.

Carbon ceramic is a brilliant technology, but not quite ready for high-performance aftermarket use, where the driving style, road or surface conditions, intended usage, and vehicle setup can all change regularly. Carbon ceramic brakes work near flawlessly within an specific temperature range and up to mildly aggressive or spirited driving. Outside of that range, most often during heavier and more aggressive track or track like conditions, they are much more susceptible to performance and longevity related issues.

There are a few companies in the process of fighting to be the first aftermarket supplier with a legitimate carbon ceramic offering for aftermarket consumption, unfortunately most of them are not actually manufacturers of the components or directly involved in the development of carbon or carbon ceramic technology, and are simply using trial and error engineering to piece together brake systems.

There are definitely going to be a few people out there who are willing to be early adopters of this technology on their street cars, but there will be a price to pay for signing up to be the "guinea pig" for these companies to actually road test their systems. ME...I'd rather wait until a proper supplier and manufacturer of such technology releases a properly engineered system where they were able to do significant laboratory and road testing with proper engineering, R&D, and failure testing to ensure the product is specifically suited to our type of market.

there are only 2 or 3 factories that make ceramic rotors right now --- and none of them are owned by BBK companies ......

Right now, u can buy aftermarket Ceramic rotors for a Nissan GTR using their OE Brembo Calipers (and pads). And a couple of other road cars as well.

BTW, a 997 GT3 w PCCB has the same calipers then on the kit that comes standard .... so how is that not true?
...... and what would be different on a Ceramic-Rotor equipped caliper vs. an Iron-Rotor equipped caliper?