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      03-26-2014, 01:33 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Litos View Post

most of the time you do, but in my case, my wife and I made so much money, that the $2000 we could have potentially got back for each kid turned into $0 dollars.....

we haven't received any payments for either of them for 6 years....

government only gives you money for your kids if you have a shitty income.....
I didnt know that, because i know some people who have kids just to get $$. I look at them like WTF?

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Originally Posted by FwdFtl View Post
saw that too haha...That's pretty much my take home income. #GoodLife
Most people here dont even make that much a month.

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Yep, welcome to parenthood. Private school tuition for my kids is almost $4k per month plus other expenses. Youngest is a type 1 diabetic, every year the insurance company covers less and raises deductibles. Monthly out of pocket for his supplies/insulin is easily another $350 per month, not counting quarterly hospital visits to see his endocrinologist... Then fees for soccer teams, swim teams, food, clothing for two teenage boys that outgrow their shoes and clothes every two-three months. You get the idea...
That's absolutely crazy!!! I think i'm gonna open a daycare. I have high respect for you now.


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My wife and I both work so this include full days care. They are also running one to two years advanced curriculum. For example my 3rd grader is following 4th and 5th grade curriculum. Her class size is 7 kids. It's pricey but for us it's worth it. The class as a whole scores in the 99% percentile nationally and my kids love it there.

Then as kscarrol mention you have after school activities that aren't exactly cheap.
You are the ideal parent. You show a lot of love for your kids, that is priceless.
You have the right mindset. I've always thought the same way too.
That's why i don't want to invest a lot of time and money on a pet. Instead i'll invest on a child. The animal will just die in a few years, whereas a child (HOPEFULLY) will grow to become a successful human and take care of you when you get older.
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      03-26-2014, 01:34 PM   #46
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I was just reminded of something. About five years ago, a college friend (well educated, professional, responsible couple) visited me with his wife and two year old. This is when I was still with my ex and we were discussing timing and kids. This kid...holy crap...he was effective birth control for both of us. He was like a blender with the lid off in both noise and mess, and downright mean. You'd smile at him and he'd scream and throw things at you...he did his damndest to destroy our furniture. He always had tendrils of snot running down his face. His parents looked miserable, but I could tell the wife at least thought much of this behavior was...almost endearing. We were both aghast. Hosting them for a few days was awkward as hell and we grew distant from them after that.

I talked to my friend a couple of years ago. I was single then, happy and talking about my new lifestyle. He had another kid and an unhappy marriage. His life had become the living embodiment of my worst fears and, in a moment of candor, although he loves his kids, he confided in me that my life was his fantasy. I think it's rare to get that kind of honesty.
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      03-26-2014, 01:35 PM   #47
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I didnt know that, because i know some people who have kids just to get $$. I look at them like WTF?
my sister in law, who is 24 years old with 4 kids, is getting $9500 back.

she is a stay at home mom and her husband makes $33K a year.........he's also 24......

fuck me, right !?!?
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      03-26-2014, 01:36 PM   #48
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lets revisit this when they're at the age of hating you and sneak out the window to eff around with boys.
uuuughghgh !!!!!!!!

I hope NEITHER of my kids effs around with boys
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      03-26-2014, 01:38 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by Litos View Post
my sister in law, who is 24 years old with 4 kids, is getting $9500 back.

she is a stay at home mom and her husband makes $33K a year.........he's also 24......

fuck me, right !?!?
No disrespect but is that 4 kids by 4 diff baby daddys?
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      03-26-2014, 01:39 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by carve
Hey guys. I'll be 37 in a couple months, and my girlfriend just turned 32...and it's kind of freaking me out. We're at the age where we have to decide if kids are in the future pretty soon. The thing is, neither of us have a real burning desire to have them, but it's something we still consider. Is that weird? To the people who want or have kids...why did you want them? How would your life be different if you didn't have them?

She has an older brother who is crazy, and sees the emotional and financial burden he continues to put on her parents. I wound up with a brother at age 14 1/2 and saw how much work kids are when I was in high school.

Babies: babies exact a huge toll on the woman's body and changes what initially attracted you to her (unless you're Mrs. Litos, apparently). You also, from that point on, are no longer the most important person in each others lives- there's a higher priority, which seems damaging to the relationship to me. If the relationship does go south, that person will still be a part of your life, at least until the kid is grown up. Everyone on both sides of my family divorced the person they had kids with, except my mom and step dad who have an unhealthy relationship, and I'd hate to put a child through that. You can no longer partake in activities together without lots of advanced planning and added expense This could be as simple as a hike or complex as a last second weekend getaway, which is most weekends for us. We go mountain biking together several times a week...that would pretty much end- if we got to do it at all, it'd be separately. You probably both have less time to take care of yourself so become less healthy and less attractive. You must consider the child first when doing anything risky (e.g. skiing, motorcycle, sports car, etc). They prevent ever becoming fully rested, and I'm grumpy and negative with insufficient sleep, which would further damage relationships. They emit foul substances from every orifice (diaper changing alone is a major factor for me) and destroy your house. They're expensive again- you must lower your standard of living, consider them first when making risky decisions like a career change, and have to work many more years before you can afford to retire.

Ages 6-12 looks kind of fun...they can do things with you, it's probably the least expensive phase, they take care of the basics for themselves (eating, bathing, sleeping, etc.), and you get to really introduce them to the world, which seems kind of fun. Then they become a teenager. They rebel, think they know it all, get into trouble if their boys or become emotional wrecks if they're girls...often wind up resenting you, and become horrendously expensive again. Then they go to college and you're a human wallet for four years. Then they're grown up, move away, and you might see them a couple times a year. It can be fun, or feel like an obligation depending on how good a job you did raising them. Hopefully they become a friend at that point and you've left some kind of legacy, or at least did your biological function of reproducing.

I used to have a Golden Retriever. I really loved that dog, but am dogless now for just a few of the reasons above- tied down, expense, mess, sadness when he got sick, etc. A kid would be an order of magnitude bigger commitment.

This doesn't even touch on stuff out of your control, such as winding up with a kid who has a severe disability, or becomes an addict, or just a disagreeable person. Parents are also statistically less happy than non-parents who are otherwise similar. Most of my friends with kids look frazzled, tired, and stressed out, and their houses are littered with kid-stuff...and that's in the unlikely event I even see them. They tend to disappear after kids. In fact, I noticed that between the mid 20's and late 50's...your prime years, the biggest difference between people isn't whether or not they're married or how old they are, but whether they have kids. People think I'm much younger than I am, and I think it's mostly due to the free-spiritedness you lose with kids...I still have that...hell...I took a year off a few years back just to travel around the world! I went to volatile Egypt last year and planned the trip a few days before I left. Parents who are younger than me tend to be very serious and dour...almost a trapped visage. They have to bring home the bacon...usually in a minivan.

Logically adding all that up it just kids just don't seem to make sense. Given all this, why do most people want to have kids? I suppose if I made a ton of money and could afford a nanny and stuff it would solve most of these problems, but I'm not there. I don't want to regret not having them, but I think it'd be even worse to have them and regret it. What am I missing here, guys? What were your expectations before kids, and how does that compare with the reality?
Way too long to read but my educated guess is you want your cake and to eat it too. I suggest passing on kids, they do sound important to you, but not more important that other priorities in your life, which is okay.
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      03-26-2014, 01:40 PM   #51
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Im 27 this year and never really cared about having kids. A lot of my friends are engaged/married/pregnant/and or have kid(s) already. I see peoples kids and think they are nice but its not something I really thought I wanted.......UNTIL I got pregnant 6 months ago. It was a shock/surprise to my boyfriend and myself. I was 110 when I got pregnant and now 6 months later I am 121. I am "all baby" Not swollen anywhere, still can wear all my stilettos (which I do wear) still the same band size 32 just a larger cup size now. I'm not going to "blow up." and let myself go and gain 40lbs like a lot of women do. I have no stretch marks. I grease myself up with cocoa butter, eat healthy and I take extremely good care of myself. At the end of this pregnancy (if I can manage to gain a pound a week) I will have only put on 26 pounds. So it doesnt destroy your body as you assume. Infact my boyfriend says I look even sexier, pregnant. I still have my same figure. From behind you cant even tell Im 6 months pregnant.

Now that this has happened to me, my views have completely changed. I cannot wait to be a Mommy. Having someone depend on you and having someone to love unconditionally is going to be the greatest feeling in the world. I cant wait to hold her in my arms, to buy her a pony, to teach her how to walk, how to spell, do math, take her to dance class, and just do all the things a parent does.

Its truly a different feeling once it happens and knowing that person is on this earth because of you just makes your heart smile. Hearing a heartbeat on the fetal doppler knowing that YOU created that is just amazing. It has also brought my bf and I closer together as well.


That's my 2 cents.
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      03-26-2014, 01:43 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by carve View Post
I was just reminded of something. About five years ago, a college friend (well educated, professional, responsible couple) visited me with his wife and two year old. This is when I was still with my ex and we were discussing timing and kids. This kid...holy crap...he was effective birth control for both of us. He was like a blender with the lid off in both noise and mess, and downright mean. You'd smile at him and he'd scream and throw things at you...he did his damndest to destroy our furniture. He always had tendrils of snot running down his face. His parents looked miserable, but I could tell the wife at least thought much of this behavior was...almost endearing. We were both aghast. Hosting them for a few days was awkward as hell and we grew distant from them after that.
You just described a normal run of the mill 2 year old
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      03-26-2014, 01:47 PM   #53
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From behind you cant even tell Im 6 months pregnant.
In for pics!!

Just kidding, good luck with the pregnancy Sara. Sounds like you are taking care of yourself. My wife was the same way with both our kids and today she is 48 and still weighs the same 115 pounds that was back in our college days...
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      03-26-2014, 01:49 PM   #54
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You just described a normal run of the mill 2 year old
Ha, but going to have to disagree. Neither of my boys were like this. Very active, yes, but screaming at other grown-ups, downright mean, nope. Don't get me wrong, my kids at that age threw the occasional temper tantrum but not what is described by carve...
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      03-26-2014, 01:51 PM   #55
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Simple advice when it comes to kids. Either jump in with both feet or not at all.
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      03-26-2014, 01:54 PM   #56
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You just described a normal run of the mill 2 year old
I miss my kids at that age. thats why we're having more.
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      03-26-2014, 02:00 PM   #57
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Great topic and one that I have been thinking about quite a bit myself. I have come to the conclusion that having kids is not for everyone. In fact, I think it is appropriate for a lot fewer people than society would have you believe. Just look at all the broken homes and poor parenting that exists today. Raising kids is a HUGE responsibility and there should be more people like the OP who employ critical thought to deciding whether or not they have the desire and resources to have children, as opposed to just believing it's something that you're supposed to do and just doing it. Personally, I am not inclined to ever have kids, for a lot of the same reasons that the OP identified. This will sound like a paradox, but it is because of the very fact that raising children in a healthy manner is so important, that I will probbaly choose to never have them. It's hard work and unless you are fully committed to it, it's probably best not to do it.
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      03-26-2014, 02:00 PM   #58
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Before we had kids I questioned my wife's wisdom on why on earth she wanted a kid when she already had the best possible kid at the time which was ME!!!!

I told her She had all the good parts of s kid without the downsides, She never bought it and we have two kids today and there are days she feels she should have listen to me.
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      03-26-2014, 02:04 PM   #59
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As a parent... The title of this thread is offensive. What if your parents had asked this question?

Also... If you have to ASK the question, you probably should NOT become a parent.
Why should the question be offensive for a parent? I would argue it's closed-minded to say that just because parenting was the right choice for you that it must be the right choice for everyone. I would think that as a parent who truly understands the challenges of raising a kid, that you would be more inclined to realize that it's not for everyone.
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      03-26-2014, 02:05 PM   #60
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Ha, but going to have to disagree. Neither of my boys were like this. Very active, yes, but screaming at other grown-ups, downright mean, nope. Don't get me wrong, my kids at that age threw the occasional temper tantrum but not what is described by carve...
I think that "mean" is subjective and a 2 year old can generally have that type of behavior especially when they're forced to go sit in someone's house where there are all these rules and they just want to play. And they know that that someone is the reason they're not at the park or Chuck-E-Cheese right now. Kids are damn smart and know who's responsible for their lack of fun!

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      03-26-2014, 02:05 PM   #61
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This topic is very similar to the "Marriage thread".
When i was 18yrs all i wanted to do was get into a relationship, get married and have kids so i can be "Happy".
Thank goodness i didnt do any of that, As i get older, i'm beginning to realize that most people (70%) do stuff just because their parents pressured them, their friends pressured them or society pressured them.

People get into and stay in BAD relationships just because they don't want to be lonely or because all their friends are dating.
People get married just because their parents pressured them to. (especial foreigners)
People have kids just because society pressured them to or just because they think it's the next step after marriage.

What i'm trying to say is, don't let other people pressure you into lifelong events. They won't be there to see your pain.
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      03-26-2014, 02:05 PM   #62
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Behavior depends. Plenty of smart, professional people have the best intentions for their kids but end up spoiling them as a result. My sister has insisted that she will never hit her kid, she doesn't believe in yelling or negative reinforcement of any sort. My nephew is a nightmare as a result. He will scream so loudly if upset that he literally loses breath for a few seconds, constantly messy, she has to reason with him and barter trips to Target to get him to do basic things like bathe and brush his teeth and she's always complaining about him being a handful. This is a seven-year-old by the way. A good friend of mine is more oldschool about it, the type who takes his son out to the parking lot for a "lesson" if he doesn't say thank you to the waitstaff. We kept his kids for 3 days while they were in Tennessee and I hardly noticed that they were there.
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      03-26-2014, 02:07 PM   #63
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I miss my kids at that age. thats why we're having more.
You do realize they only get to be that age for exactly 1 year per kid, right? I hope you don't miss it too much after the next one, you might end up with like 10 kids!



Just busting your chops man I know what you mean.
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      03-26-2014, 02:14 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carve View Post
I was just reminded of something. About five years ago, a college friend (well educated, professional, responsible couple) visited me with his wife and two year old. This is when I was still with my ex and we were discussing timing and kids. This kid...holy crap...he was effective birth control for both of us. He was like a blender with the lid off in both noise and mess, and downright mean. You'd smile at him and he'd scream and throw things at you...he did his damndest to destroy our furniture. He always had tendrils of snot running down his face. His parents looked miserable, but I could tell the wife at least thought much of this behavior was...almost endearing. We were both aghast. Hosting them for a few days was awkward as hell and we grew distant from them after that.

I talked to my friend a couple of years ago. I was single then, happy and talking about my new lifestyle. He had another kid and an unhappy marriage. His life had become the living embodiment of my worst fears and, in a moment of candor, although he loves his kids, he confided in me that my life was his fantasy. I think it's rare to get that kind of honesty.

I've had some of the same thoughts as your first post as well, and have been told by various people that, "if you don't want kids, you are an incredibly selfish person". However, isn't it also selfish to want to prolong your genetic existence on this planet by having kids? The way I see it is that people have different priorities in life. I think the biggest worry is how the relationship can potentially change once a kid is involved. I've seen a couple of extreme examples where one parent sees the kid as priority number 1 and devotes their time completely to the kid, ignoring their significant other for the most part.

Similar to your post above, several of my friends with kids have told me they are jealous of my simple, kid-lacking lifestyle. Their kids don't act like little hellions such as the one you describe, though they are still quite a handful.
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      03-26-2014, 02:21 PM   #65
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You do realize they only get to be that age for exactly 1 year per kid, right? I hope you don't miss it too much after the next one, you might end up with like 10 kids!



Just busting your chops man I know what you mean.
lets hope I grow out of it , if not i'll just wait for grandkids??
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      03-26-2014, 02:22 PM   #66
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Here's something to think about. Do you ever want to be a Grandpa? Do you ever want to see your child graduate high school? College? What about during the Holidays when you're in your 60's and your parents are passed away. Do you want to be alone? or would you like to have your grown children and grand children coming to visit. What about when you're 80 and your spouse passes away. Do you want to be in a nursing home or would you rather have your children be able to take care of you and call you and keep you company? Its not just the "kid" phase to think about. Its the rest of your life.
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