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      03-27-2014, 10:03 PM   #45
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Does anyone have a link for FP1 stream?
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      03-28-2014, 10:03 AM   #46
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Red Bull warns of Australia repeat amid fuel flow issues Read more at http://en.espnf

Argh~ De javu~

When did F1 likes to go around in circles?

http://en.espnf1.com/malaysia/motors...ry/151231.html

Quote:
Christian Horner says Red Bull could find itself in the same situation as it did in Australia regarding the fuel flow on Daniel Ricciardo's car.

During Friday practice the team suffered a failure of its fuel flow sensor and has yet to discern whether the new sensor is giving the correct reading. If the sensor does not match up with Red Bull's readings from its measurements, the team would find itself in the same position as it did in Australia, and Horner said his team would be forced to make another tricky decision as to whether it ignores the sensor and flirts with the possibility of a another disqualification.

"We had a signal failure on Daniel's car this morning immediately and we have replaced that for this afternoon's session and we haven't heard the results," he said. "Hopefully it's reading as per the fuel rail [feeding the engine] and will behave for the rest of the weekend. If it doesn't we find ourselves in an awkward situation, but obviously it's one we will try to work with the FIA on. But again you are faced with the same dilemma as two weeks ago.

"I think we'll have that conversation beforehand, so it's clear if we do see a variance. Hopefully we can agree something that's sensible."

With one hearing already hanging over the team following Ricciardo's exclusion from the results in Australia and Red Bull's subsequent appeal, Horner hinted that Red Bull would be willing to risk ignoring the fuel sensor if its readings are a long way off.

"Firstly we need a sensor that is consistent with the fuel rail, that's the most important factor. Thereafter we will have to make that judgement in the race depending on what the sensor is saying. If it's 0.25% you can live with it, if it's 2% you can't live with it. It depends on what the value is. The rules are very clear, [Article] 5.1.4 of the [technical] regulations very clearly states what the fuel flow permitted into the engine is. We can clearly demonstrate we have not exceeded that.

"Technical directives, of which the sensors are included within, are not regulations. We know that from the Pirelli case, the double diffuser case, and following the Pirelli case it even says on the bottom of them: 'This is not a regulation it is purely an opinion and has not regulatory value'. I think we're pretty confident in our position over the Australian Grand Prix."


Read more at http://en.espnf1.com/malaysia/motors...vhdEtLxF1Xf.99
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      03-28-2014, 10:09 AM   #47
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      03-28-2014, 10:14 AM   #48
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      03-28-2014, 10:18 AM   #49
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      03-28-2014, 12:14 PM   #50
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Fantastic pictures!

2 observations:
- those aero details on the cars are unbelievable, in more ways than one.
- when did the McLaren get so ugly?
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      03-28-2014, 12:25 PM   #51
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Fantastic pictures!

2 observations:
- those aero details on the cars are unbelievable, in more ways than one.
- when did the McLaren get so ugly?
They've introduced a new nose cone design this weekend.
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      03-28-2014, 12:56 PM   #52
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      03-28-2014, 02:45 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
Argh~ De javu~

When did F1 likes to go around in circles?

http://en.espnf1.com/malaysia/motors...ry/151231.html
Apparently a couple other teams were told during the race they were exceeding the fuel flow limits. But they actually did something about and didn't ignore the FIA like Red Bull.

Red Bull is down on power. No wonder Horner is playing games with fuel flow limits.

Quote:
Renault's engine has a deficit to that of rivals Mercedes on power per unit of fuel - it produces its power less efficiently, and Horner has admitted Red Bull are losing "a second a lap on the straights" as a result.
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      03-28-2014, 03:31 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
Apparently a couple other teams were told during the race they were exceeding the fuel flow limits. But they actually did something about and didn't ignore the FIA like Red Bull.

Red Bull is down on power. No wonder Horner is playing games with fuel flow limits.
Feels like is the case "cop caught you speeding, but you said your speedo is correct and didn't overspeed. But there was a commissioner said the rader gun is the point of reference of vehicle speed. However the radar gun was inaccurate to a certain percentage."

Argue with he judge. Where the defendant can "prove" he didn't speed, and thus didn't broke the text of the law.
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      03-28-2014, 03:59 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
Feels like is the case "cop caught you speeding, but you said your speedo is correct and didn't overspeed. But there was a commissioner said the rader gun is the point of reference of vehicle speed. However the radar gun was inaccurate to a certain percentage."

Argue with he judge. Where the defendant can "prove" he didn't speed, and thus didn't broke the text of the law.
Exactly! Make it so confusing and convoluted that they say "fine, you didnt do anything" lol
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      03-28-2014, 04:07 PM   #56
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Exactly! Make it so confusing and convoluted that they say "fine, you didnt do anything" lol
Unfortunately, this is where FIA messed up.

In the text of regulation, it didn't specify that the FIA homologated sensor will be benchmark and only source for fuel mass flow monitoring and enforcement. It only indicated car must be fitted with only one fuel flow sensor inside the fuel tank. Whether or not it will be treated as the reference for FIA scruitneering, it was not in the rule book.

This was only indicated in Technical Directive issued early March. Which Technical Directive is only "the opinion" of the FIA and stewards, or Charlie Whiting / Joe Bauer. It does not become part of the regulation.

This is the loop-hole that Red Bull was confident about. Where they did not break the text of the rule (similar way to double diffusor, secret tire testing etc). But the spirit of the rule to fit only single sensor is to let the FIA have a reference point to monitor the fuel flow so no teams can create a smart engine/fuel mapping to enhance overall power unit performance and efficiency.
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      03-28-2014, 04:14 PM   #57
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It's funny how Dietrich Mateschitz has threatened to leave F1 due to all the changes. Funny, they're on top of the world for four seasons and now they have to work again, like all the other teams, to make a car that can win within the regulations.

Williams, Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes have been involved in F1 throughout the years. If they all quit once they stopped winning, none of them would be in F1.

Buck up and do your homework and get on with it. Quit crying. Last year you were fat and happy.

That being said, we'll see how they do this weekend, if their fuel flow is corrected
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      03-28-2014, 04:25 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by TSM330i View Post
It's funny how Dietrich Mateschitz has threatened to leave F1 due to all the changes. Funny, they're on top of the world for four seasons and now they have to work again, like all the other teams, to make a car that can win within the regulations.

Williams, Ferrari, McLaren and Mercedes have been involved in F1 throughout the years. If they all quit once they stopped winning, none of them would be in F1.

Buck up and do your homework and get on with it. Quit crying. Last year you were fat and happy.

That being said, we'll see how they do this weekend, if their fuel flow is corrected
I won't blame them too much. In the past some big teams had threatened to do that already. Noticeably Ferrari back in 2009 or something. Or many teams threatened to break-away when a concord agreement expires.

Since RBR became a big team now. They are flexing their muscle like Scuderia Ferrari.
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      03-28-2014, 04:37 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
I won't blame them too much. In the past some big teams had threatened to do that already. Noticeably Ferrari back in 2009 or something. Or many teams threatened to break-away when a concord agreement expires.

Since RBR became a big team now. They are flexing their muscle like Scuderia Ferrari.
I agree totally. Problem is, they always cave and stick with FIA.
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      03-28-2014, 05:42 PM   #60
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At least they're sticking with it unlike what BMW did a few years ago...

@e90slam: very true. I guess the key is whether they were within the spirit of the regulation or not
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      03-29-2014, 12:40 AM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E90SLAM View Post
Unfortunately, this is where FIA messed up.

In the text of regulation, it didn't specify that the FIA homologated sensor will be benchmark and only source for fuel mass flow monitoring and enforcement. It only indicated car must be fitted with only one fuel flow sensor inside the fuel tank. Whether or not it will be treated as the reference for FIA scruitneering, it was not in the rule book.

This was only indicated in Technical Directive issued early March. Which Technical Directive is only "the opinion" of the FIA and stewards, or Charlie Whiting / Joe Bauer. It does not become part of the regulation.

This is the loop-hole that Red Bull was confident about. Where they did not break the text of the rule (similar way to double diffusor, secret tire testing etc). But the spirit of the rule to fit only single sensor is to let the FIA have a reference point to monitor the fuel flow so no teams can create a smart engine/fuel mapping to enhance overall power unit performance and efficiency.
Ha, nice try. They think they found a loop hole around a FIA sensor placed on the car to monitor fuel flow. They are going to lose the appeal.

Fuel flow limit is in place to control power output of these motors. Not just for being green. Otherwise the teams would be boosting the hell out of these motors and getting 2,000hp on certain portions of the track.

Funny thing is Red Bull is continuing to exceed the fuel flow limits, they did it again in practice in Malaysia. Horner will continue to play this game and dare the FIA to exclude them from every race. Red Bull has no other choice their cars are down on power on the straights, by a large amount.

Oh and the rumor is Mercedes powerplants are producing over 900hp (and within the fuel flow limit).
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      03-29-2014, 12:48 AM   #62
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Originally Posted by Blipit_ View Post
Ha, nice try. They think they found a loop hole around a FIA sensor placed on the car to monitor fuel flow. They are going to lose the appeal.

Fuel flow limit is in place to control power output of these motors. Not just for being green. Otherwise the teams would be boosting the hell out of these motors and getting 2,000hp on certain portions of the track.

Funny thing is Red Bull is continuing to exceed the fuel flow limits, they did it again in practice in Malaysia. Horner will continue to play this game and dare the FIA to exclude them from every race. Red Bull has no other choice their cars are down on power on the straights, by a large amount.

Oh and the rumor is Mercedes powerplants are producing over 900hp (and within the fuel flow limit).
If this continues, and FIA managed to close the loophole. We can see RBR leaving Renault engines, which are fundamentally low on power with these new power units.
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      03-29-2014, 06:27 AM   #63
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LH got pole

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Last edited by 954Stealth; 03-29-2014 at 08:28 AM.
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      03-29-2014, 09:46 AM   #64
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Go Lewis! Hopefully he actually gets to race this time.
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      03-29-2014, 01:38 PM   #65
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Whatever Renault is doing wrong, please keep doing it since by now it's obvious that RBR once again has the best chassi. A little extra power from cheating or rain to remove power advantages and they are right up there. Mercedes looks to have the best engine and 2nd best chassi. Ferrari & McLaren seem to be a bit behind with both engine and chassi. Great stuff, this far.
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      03-29-2014, 11:52 PM   #66
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Imagine if RB had a Mercedes power unit!
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