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      01-26-2014, 02:23 AM   #23
Koldun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
You just repeated what I said earlier...an M car is a spruced up BMW.



Well said. The E90 M3 is a fantastic car! BETTER than an E46 M3 in just about every aspect besides some certain personal preferences...which are emotional. OK, the cup holders in the E9X are pure garbage but that wasn't designed by the M division.
I like the cup holders way better than in the new three.
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      01-26-2014, 03:05 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
an M car is a spruced up BMW.
I know what you're trying to say, but this statement seems to be a non-sequitur since an M car IS a BMW. It's like saying a lion is a spruced up feline, or a wolf is a spruced up canine. Perhaps more correct to say something like: an M3 is a spruced-up 3 series, etc. Your statement just struck me as odd ...
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      01-26-2014, 07:23 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
Don't be going to the F9x forum and saying the S55 is based on the N55 unless you have the flame suit on.

So you're saying BMW could afford to make bespoke /M engines when it was a MUCH smaller company and didn't have Mini or Rolls, but now it's so big (relative to 10-15 years ago), that they can't afford to make a real /M engine?

.
Nope, I'm saying with increased emission and fuel economy standards approaching quickly, they needed to adapt their line up to meet those standards. They had to throw out na and engineer FI engines, that costs a ton!

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/29/bu...ards.html?_r=0

BMW has less vehicles and volume than the car companies I listed before, so all models need to have significantly better fuel mileage. This is also why they are coming out with front wheel drive, cheaper cars for the masses. That and because they can sell them....
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      01-26-2014, 07:26 AM   #26
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Btw, BMW has been modifying the standard engines to become m engines forever (changing lots of parts but starting with standard blocks) the s65/s85 was really the only "m only" engine platform. People from e90post need to read up on m's history.
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      01-26-2014, 10:17 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schoy View Post
I know what you're trying to say, but this statement seems to be a non-sequitur since an M car IS a BMW. It's like saying a lion is a spruced up feline, or a wolf is a spruced up canine. Perhaps more correct to say something like: an M3 is a spruced-up 3 series, etc. Your statement just struck me as odd ...
As much as I hate to admit it, I agree with you. Well said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koldun View Post
I like the cup holders way better than in the new three.
The F30 cup holders? I like them better than the E90 and E46. The F30 keeps the drink out of the way of driving unlike the E46. It securely holds the drink, unlike the E90.

E90...worst cup holders in the history of mankind.
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      01-26-2014, 03:01 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976
Quote:
Originally Posted by schoy View Post
I know what you're trying to say, but this statement seems to be a non-sequitur since an M car IS a BMW. It's like saying a lion is a spruced up feline, or a wolf is a spruced up canine. Perhaps more correct to say something like: an M3 is a spruced-up 3 series, etc. Your statement just struck me as odd ...
As much as I hate to admit it, I agree with you. Well said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koldun View Post
I like the cup holders way better than in the new three.
The F30 cup holders? I like them better than the E90 and E46. The F30 keeps the drink out of the way of driving unlike the E46. It securely holds the drink, unlike the E90.

E90...worst cup holders in the history of mankind.
I was honestly happier in my first two days of ownership when I thought there weren't any cup holders in the car.

Once I realized they popped out, it was a sadistic tease: "Pop-out cup holders; great! I'm confident that these will securely hold my hot beverage from Starbucks!" Two seconds later and BOOM, SPLASH, and then wailing and gnashing of teeth on my part.

The cup holders on this car have made me switch over to 99 cent McDonald's coffee and plastic sheeting to cover my passenger seat and I-drive control knob.
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      01-26-2014, 03:08 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
so are you buying forward or looking back. i know for me the past is more interesting than the future for me at bmw. not so at some other brands.
I think sitting here now, the future of M is the most exciting its been since the past.
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      01-26-2014, 03:22 PM   #30
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As already posted here: http://zpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=938960

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      01-26-2014, 03:23 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RL530xit View Post
I think sitting here now, the future of M is the most exciting its been since the past.
good one!
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      01-26-2014, 03:26 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
so are you buying forward or looking back. i know for me the past is more interesting than the future for me at bmw. not so at some other brands.
For me its the Past with BMW. I get the direction they are going, and I understand it makes business sense its just not something I care to put my money down for. I doubt they will miss my money though, because their sales are pretty high at the moment so I must be in the minority that doesn't like direction they are heading
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      01-26-2014, 03:30 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobS
Btw, BMW has been modifying the standard engines to become m engines forever (changing lots of parts but starting with standard blocks) the s65/s85 was really the only "m only" engine platform. People from e90post need to read up on m's history.
100% agreed... No bespoke engines anymore = no longer M cars from original BMW M philosophy regardless of weight or performance...M is now a tuning division...IMHO.
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      01-26-2014, 03:42 PM   #34
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What can I say about this article other than....
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      01-26-2014, 03:53 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapper_M3
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976
Quote:
Originally Posted by schoy View Post
I know what you're trying to say, but this statement seems to be a non-sequitur since an M car IS a BMW. It's like saying a lion is a spruced up feline, or a wolf is a spruced up canine. Perhaps more correct to say something like: an M3 is a spruced-up 3 series, etc. Your statement just struck me as odd ...
As much as I hate to admit it, I agree with you. Well said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koldun View Post
I like the cup holders way better than in the new three.
The F30 cup holders? I like them better than the E90 and E46. The F30 keeps the drink out of the way of driving unlike the E46. It securely holds the drink, unlike the E90.

E90...worst cup holders in the history of mankind.
I was honestly happier in my first two days of ownership when I thought there weren't any cup holders in the car.

Once I realized they popped out, it was a sadistic tease: "Pop-out cup holders; great! I'm confident that these will securely hold my hot beverage from Starbucks!" Two seconds later and BOOM, SPLASH, and then wailing and gnashing of teeth on my part.

The cup holders on this car have made me switch over to 99 cent McDonald's coffee and plastic sheeting to cover my passenger seat and I-drive control knob.
How did this become an article about cupholders?:-)
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      01-26-2014, 04:03 PM   #36
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This issue has been raging for 25 years...Just read the Roundel Letters to the Editors. The only real BMW is the 2002, the only real M is the E30 M3, blah blah blah. BMW is a for profit corporation, it analyzes what will make t profitable in conformity with laws and regulations. If people want an X5M and it is a money maker then why not build it. If you don't like it don't buy it. As for Porsche, it is the same thing, Cayenne is terrible blah blah blah diluting brand, blah blah blah. The M3 has been a luxury coupe since at least the E36 and that is what people want, not a 2500 lb no tech track monster. Get over it and if you like the Ms they build now (and I love mine) then buy, if not don't let the door hit your ass on the way out to what ever brand you will complain about next.
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      01-26-2014, 04:04 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roho3323 View Post
100% agreed... No bespoke engines anymore = no longer M cars from original BMW M philosophy regardless of weight or performance...M is now a tuning division...IMHO.
Agreed! It's clear from an investor relations perspective, that's modular designs increase profit margins by decreasing operating costs, which essentially equates to the fact that bean counters are running the show! Government CAFE regulations are just an excuse and can be achieved by introducing more fuel efficient vehicles across the non-M line-up and keeping the M division out of this argument. With the i sub-brand and front wheel drive offerings on the horizon, BMW will achieve the CAFE goals. What they also want to achieve, however, is increased profits from the M division which is why it will no longer get its own bespoke engine. I don't care what anybody says, the above argument is the absolute truth; going forward, M will be a tuning division. Shame!!!!!!
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      01-26-2014, 04:11 PM   #38
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I found this article very confusing. The first part is spent ripping apart enthusiasts who think M has lost their way, then he acknowledges the cars have changed but "they had to", then it's back to suck it up this is how it is. I feel like its a bit of a rant and not very well flushed out.

You CAN effectively argue that M has lost its way and not say these new cars aren't real M cars. Because let's face it, those who are arguing that are most likely trying to say just that. And as others have pointed out they are made by the same division - they are M cars.

I like the new cars, but I do feel they have lost their way a bit. I do like his point that you should enjoy the past, present, and future. I know I do. Still absolutely love my e39 M5 and plan to add an F80 at some point as well.

But he does not provide an argument as to "why" they had to change. I feel that they didn't. They could have saved M for the 3 and 5 and other special projects instead of whoring it out for SUVs, M sports, M performance line, etc. Even that would have been easier to swallow if these new M engines were still special and exclusive instead of being based off of your everyday N55. But yes, this is the reality, but that doesn't mean you can't have an opinion as to if this is the brand's best strategy.
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      01-26-2014, 04:13 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobS
Btw, BMW has been modifying the standard engines to become m engines forever (changing lots of parts but starting with standard blocks) the s65/s85 was really the only "m only" engine platform. People from e90post need to read up on m's history.
Yep!
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      01-26-2014, 04:14 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bemo
Quote:
Originally Posted by roho3323 View Post
100% agreed... No bespoke engines anymore = no longer M cars from original BMW M philosophy regardless of weight or performance...M is now a tuning division...IMHO.
Agreed! It's clear from an investor relations perspective, that's modular designs increase profit margins by decreasing operating costs, which essentially equates to the fact that bean counters are running the show! Government CAFE regulations are just an excuse and can be achieved by introducing more fuel efficient vehicles across the non-M line-up and keeping the M division out of this argument. With the i sub-brand and front wheel drive offerings on the horizon, BMW will achieve the CAFE goals. What they also want to achieve, however, is increased profits from the M division which is why it will no longer get its own bespoke engine. I don't care what anybody says, the above argument is the absolute truth; going forward, M will be a tuning division. Shame!!!!!!
+1. Agree with this.
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      01-26-2014, 04:20 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjposner
This issue has been raging for 25 years...Just read the Roundel Letters to the Editors. The only real BMW is the 2002, the only real M is the E30 M3, blah blah blah. BMW is a for profit corporation, it analyzes what will make t profitable in conformity with laws and regulations. If people want an X5M and it is a money maker then why not build it. If you don't like it don't buy it. As for Porsche, it is the same thing, Cayenne is terrible blah blah blah diluting brand, blah blah blah. The M3 has been a luxury coupe since at least the E36 and that is what people want, not a 2500 lb no tech track monster. Get over it and if you like the Ms they build now (and I love mine) then buy, if not don't let the door hit your ass on the way out to what ever brand you will complain about next.
I see your points, but I don't like how it has now turned into an us vs. them mentality on these boards. Can't I criticize if I want? Or are the only opinions allowed here ones that praise every decision M and BMW makes? Yes there are trolls, but I think a good number of the posters here legitimately care about BMW, M, etc. IMO all of these opinions are welcome. Even the critical ones.
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      01-26-2014, 04:23 PM   #42
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Been saying this for years. The original M cars were cushy street cars based on regular old sedans too. People are such whiners.
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      01-26-2014, 04:31 PM   #43
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I can't wait to get the next 5 series with the available 3 cylinder motor. Tesla would be proud.
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      01-26-2014, 04:35 PM   #44
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Do I dare mention M Sport variants? (M235i, 335i and 550i M Sport?) Hisssss, Booooo!!!
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