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      11-05-2007, 03:11 PM   #1
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Is the S5 a threat to the new M3?

Okay, i'm not talking about performance although it is quite impressive considering how heavy it is and the numbers that it has shown and produced so far are not that far from the M3's numbers but not close either. More like 335i's numbers, just a little quicker. What i mean is, is it a threat over all especially in sales. One thing it definitely has is it's gorgeous design. The big difference is that the M3 is more of a real sports car and the S5 is really more of a GT.



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      11-05-2007, 03:24 PM   #2
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Too fat, too soft. I think your own post answers your question.

Had an S5 on order until I saw the first pics and switched to a £15000 more expensive M3 within a week, glad I did now the S5 has arrived. Nice car for cruising, bugger all fun or excitement. It was supposed to be the Nuvolari concept come to life. Yet another great looking concept ruined in the metal. Funny eh, a few little changes and boom, it looks like a barge.

Oh, and if the S5 does 0-62 in 4.5 I'll eat my Gerbil.

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      11-05-2007, 03:25 PM   #3
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Yes Audi is probably going to steel some business from BMW. Especially when the RS5 comes out. But honestly, I dont care.
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      11-05-2007, 03:30 PM   #4
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Looks too soft next to the M3... I think the upcoming RS5 would be a direct competitor.
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      11-05-2007, 03:31 PM   #5
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[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leg View Post
Too fat, too soft. I think your own post answers your question.

Had an S5 on order until I saw the first pics and switched to a 15000 more expensive M3 within a week, glad I did now the S5 has arrived. Nice car for cruising, bugger all fun or excitement. It was supposed to be the Nuvolari concept come to life. Yet another great looking concept ruined in the metal. Funny eh, a few little changes and boom, it looks like a barge.
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Originally Posted by Leg
Oh, and if the S5 does 0-62 in 4.5 I'll eat my Gerbil.
Why is it so shocking that the S5 did 4.5? And why the hell do you have a Gerbil?!
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      11-05-2007, 04:03 PM   #6
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There is no doubt it's looks aren't as in your face as the M3's are, you look at the M3 and are in no doubt as to it's purpose, but to dismiss the S5 out of hand is a silly thing to do. Sure on a track the M3 will have it for breakfast and the same will go on a straight bit of road but the S5 can carry an amazing amount of speed into and through a corner, plus the fact that it doesn't tax the driver can play into it's hands, you find yourself putting harder than in most other cars.

I agree that on entertainment value there is no comparison between the two but on looks, quality and comfort the S5 is easily the equal to the M3 and anything else you care to mention.
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      11-05-2007, 04:04 PM   #7
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[quote=gbb357;1641798]
Quote:



Why is it so shocking that the S5 did 4.5? And why the hell do you have a Gerbil?!

I dont own a gerbil actually, but if an S5 does the sprint in 4.5, Ill buy one and have it with chips (no, not crisps, Im English, I mean proper chips and not those skinny ones you lot call fries).
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      11-05-2007, 04:05 PM   #8
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A 335i beat the S5 on the track.
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      11-05-2007, 05:03 PM   #9
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RS5 might be a direct competitor, but at what price? The new Car and Driver has the RS4 at over $80th in test. M3 at @ $70th as tested. Hope those M3 numbers are wrong. RS5 might be $85th plus.
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      11-05-2007, 05:05 PM   #10
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I agree..........too soft for my tastes!
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      11-05-2007, 05:18 PM   #11
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I saw one this weekend in person at the dealership and I can say it looks damned good. Definitely not as aggressive as the M3 (hopefully, still haven't seen that one in real life), but it does look a lot more aggressive in person. The front in particular.
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      11-05-2007, 06:08 PM   #12
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[quote=Leg;1641975]
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbb357 View Post


I dont own a gerbil actually, but if an S5 does the sprint in 4.5, Ill buy one and have it with chips (no, not crisps, Im English, I mean proper chips and not those skinny ones you lot call fries).
Got it. Well so far Motor Trend has done 4.5 secs and Road & Track did 4.7 secs. But you can tell by the end of the 1/4 mile that the M3 will smoke it buy a full second or at least half. The point i'm getting at is at $50.5k base price and quite fully loaded at $55.5k the S5 might be too close for comfort for the M3 in performance and a huge bargain compare to the M3's $70k. Now at the same time, you can get a 335i well equipped for $45k with almost the same performance as the S5. Although a fully loaded 335i coupe will run you close to $50k.
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      11-05-2007, 06:17 PM   #13
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[quote=gbb357;1642763]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leg View Post

Got it. Well so far Motor Trend has done 4.5 secs and Road & Track did 4.7 secs. But you can tell by the end of the 1/4 mile that the M3 will smoke it buy a full second or at least half. The point i'm getting at is at $50.5k base price and quite fully loaded at $55.5k the S5 might be too close for comfort for the M3 in performance and a huge bargain compare to the M3's $70k. Now at the same time, you can get a 335i well equipped for $45k with almost the same performance as the S5. Although a fully loaded 335i coupe will run you close to $50k.

I guess thats my point. Given this time for an S5 then the M3 will do 4.0 or less and, lets be fair, can we really see this being the case?

In the end though its about driving dynamics and not power and 0-62mph times and I'm afraid that my own experience (driven both) and the reviews clearly show (to me anyway) that the M3 and S5 are different beasties. As said before, maybe the RS5.
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      11-05-2007, 06:23 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_stranger View Post
A 335i beat the S5 on the track.
They pretty much run neck and neck at the track. The S5 runs a tick or two faster on street runs from what I've see. It's clearly a notch above the Bimmer in quality imo, however it's a pig on gas mileage. The S5 has a $1,300.00 GG tax and is rated @ 14/21. Similar performance from the 335xi/i with no GG and 20/27.

Compared to the M3, Audi should plead no contest.

Great GT car as you said. I test drove one. As refined, fast and capable as it was, I thought the 335xi was more involving and more fun. Beautiful car though.
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      11-05-2007, 06:31 PM   #15
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In terms of looks (interior and exterior) almost everyone agrees the S5 is the winner. In terms of performance, driver feed back and enjoyment, the M3 is the clear winner. The RS5 will be a beautiful beast, but at what price?
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      11-05-2007, 06:49 PM   #16
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Surprised

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leg View Post
I guess thats my point. Given this time for an S5 then the M3 will do 4.0 or less and, lets be fair, can we really see this being the case?
I am shocked as well that MT got 4.5 s for 0-60 as well. Do note that was not the time to get to 100 kph but only to 60 mph. In their first drive they could not get under 5.0 to 60 mph (video preview on their website).

0-100 km/hr (62 mph)
CarTest: 5.2 s (attached)
Edmunds: 5.1 s
Evo: 5.1 s

It was interesting to note the when optimizing the launch with CarTest it did require a near redline clutch drop just like they mentioned in the MT article where they got 4.5 s.

I know you (OP) tire of my simulations, but just FYI, I had to crank the hp/tq figures in CarTest up to 400hp/365 ft lb to get down to 0-62 mph (100 kph) 4.5 s.

I guess MT just has way more professional drag drivers than Edmunds or Evo...
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      11-05-2007, 06:53 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the_stranger View Post
A 335i beat the S5 on the track.
I'm not one for getting into an argument over something as silly as 0.3s of a second over a one minute lap. If you are under the impression that the 335i won this test well what ever floats your boat my friend, that test was so close that it could have when either way.

One thing is for sure, I know from experience that on the road the S5 has the 335i well and truly beaten and that's before you throw in the bad weather conditions into the mix.


But why are we discussing the 335i in the debate at all, the title of the thread is the S5 vs M3, and on this I love my S5 but it's not in the same league as the M3. Whether the RS5 improve on the high standards already been set by both the RS4 and M3, I am unsure. The S5 was expected to move things on from the RS4 but the truth is that it only improved things over the S4, whether the same amount of improvement will carry over to the RS4 vs RS5 I don't know.

If the answer is yes then chances are it will be top dog once again. Of more interest to me is what power output will it have, some are suggesting close to 500hp which can only mean a return to forced induction just like the RS6. That would definitely mean that on a performance terms the RS5 would be on a different level to either the M3 or C63.

An interesting couple of years wait to see how things pan out.
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      11-05-2007, 06:54 PM   #18
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S% 0-60

Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
I know you (OP) tire of my simulations, but just FYI, I had to crank the hp/tq figures in CarTest up to 400hp/365 ft lb to get down to 0-62 mph (100 kph) 4.5 s.
I assume your software takes the AWD into account? As long as you don't bog it on launch that extra traction is what makes it competitive with the M3 to 60.
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      11-05-2007, 06:57 PM   #19
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That picture up top is not an S5, it looks nothing like what an S5 looks like. Not to mention all I have ever seen on the S5 0-62 is sbove 5 seconds.
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      11-05-2007, 06:59 PM   #20
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swamp2,

I haven't tried it professionally, only a passenger with a stopwatch but my S5 has done 0-60mph in under 5s and the 100mph in under 12s. It performance is on par with the old E46 M3 if not a little better, but this is only a guesstimate as I haven't tackled an M3 as of yet.
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      11-05-2007, 06:59 PM   #21
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[quote=Leg;1642821]
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbb357 View Post


I guess thats my point. Given this time for an S5 then the M3 will do 4.0 or less and, lets be fair, can we really see this being the case?

In the end though its about driving dynamics and not power and 0-62mph times and I'm afraid that my own experience (driven both) and the reviews clearly show (to me anyway) that the M3 and S5 are different beasties. As said before, maybe the RS5.
I can definitely see it at 4.1 or even maybe 4.0. So far Car and Driver has gotten 4.3 for the M3. You're right, as i mentioned in the beginning the performance is no contest. I'm just talking about overall value or "bang for the buck" analogy. The RS5 will be too much money i think, i'm guessing at least $85k. But if Audi will use the same engine that they're using on the RS6 which is the 580hp V10 for the RS5(which is the rumor right now), then that might actually be more competing against the M6.
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      11-05-2007, 07:02 PM   #22
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That's a S5 all right, the grille is right, the wing mirrors are right and so are the wheels which can only be got with a S5. The only thing I am unsure about is the sunroof, I have never seen an A/S5 with one.
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