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      01-22-2014, 01:36 AM   #1
Triple M
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True Squares

After pursuing the perfect "Square Setup" in an 18inch wheel for my car. Must the wheels be fully squared (18 x 10 F & R) or can you get away mildly staggered wheel/square tire combo. Wanted to get you guy's opinion on in this. I was wonder how running 285/30/18 front (on 18 x 9.5) and 285/30/18 rear (on 18 x 10.5) will affect the dynamic balance of the car.
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      01-22-2014, 09:25 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple M
After pursuing the perfect "Square Setup" in an 18inch wheel for my car. Must the wheels be fully squared (18 x 10 F & R) or can you get away mildly staggered wheel/square tire combo. Wanted to get you guy's opinion on in this. I was wonder how running 285/30/18 front (on 18 x 9.5) and 285/30/18 rear (on 18 x 10.5) will affect the dynamic balance of the car.
What's your purpose of running the same tire size on different wheels? That will affect the sidewall profile of the tire, and in those specific sizes you'll likely get a sort of muffin top effect on your front tires, which will mean a squishier sidewall than you probably want on the track. Conversely, picking a wheel too wide for your tire will cause the sidewall to have to stretch outward to span the wheel, which can leave you too LITTLE sidewall and cause the edges of the tire to wear faster.

If you're going to stagger, stagger both wheels and tires. And if you do stagger, I'd recommend keeping the same 20mm width difference specified by stock unless you have a specific reason for changing it. Supercharged people for example get much wider rear tires sometimes (at the cost of increasing understeer), whereas squaring the front with the rear dials out some understeer.
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      01-22-2014, 09:48 AM   #3
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Square wheels? I kid... First, a 285 series tire is probably too wide for a 9.5 inch wheel. Check the manufacturer specs for the particular tire you are considering. For example, BFG recommends a 10-11" wheel for a 285 series R1. Second, one of the primary benefits of running a square setup is the ability to rotate the tires. You can't really rotate if you have staggered wheels. I guess maybe you could using spacers, but it's not ideal.
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      01-22-2014, 09:55 AM   #4
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Square wheels? I kid...
I was thinking the same thing, especially when he wrote "True" Squares.
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      01-22-2014, 10:40 AM   #5
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I run a 285/35x18 square up to a 305 on a 9.5 inch wheel.

Depending on what you are doing with it. Wider wheel is better, but depending on the suspension you have, the offset of the wheel and how your suspension is setup, you may run into rub.

I do run wider wheels on occasion, but found the best fit to be 9.5 inch with a 20-25 offset.
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      01-22-2014, 11:24 AM   #6
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I run 275/35 and 285/35 tires on my 18 x 9.5" and 10.5" staggered wheels and have liked the performance on the track. I'm not a track expert and there are other wheel/tire sizes that I would consider trying. I don't see the point of running square tire sizes on staggered wheels. You can't rotate them. Plus you would be running a low profile 30 series tire on an 18" wheel which also partially defeats the purpose of running 18's.
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      01-22-2014, 06:56 PM   #7
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I think you don't see a lot of square 285 setups because choices are pretty limited. You'll be fine with 285s on 9.5" wheels but the offset will have some effect on the handling vs running the same size wheel on all 4 corners. I wouldn't over analyze it...just put 285s on!
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      01-22-2014, 07:03 PM   #8
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I'm guessing that the OP already has staggered wheels, wants to try 285 squared tires without having to buy a set of (squared) wheels...
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      01-22-2014, 07:04 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
I think you don't see a lot of square 285 setups because choices are pretty limited. You'll be fine with 285s on 9.5" wheels but the offset will have some effect on the handling vs running the same size wheel on all 4 corners. I wouldn't over analyze it...just put 285s on!
+1

Although this site (the "Spec" tab on http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....r&tireModel=R6) says 10 to 11" for 285/30/18, I'd say just try it.
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      01-22-2014, 07:55 PM   #10
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Why not 275s all around on 18 x 10? Most available track tire choices, ability to rotate, well documented and recommended for E9X platform.

Are you trying to dial out oversteer with the staggered wheel setup, or?
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      01-23-2014, 11:08 AM   #11
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You can fit a 295 square all the way around. That is the most common tire I run. Most big races I'll run 305/645x18 Pirelli Slicks. For standard HPDEs or other events, I'll run a 295/35x18 square (Hoosier R6). You can fit a 295 under all four corners no problem IF you aren't running stock springs. We also provide "takeoffs" if people need or want.

If you are regular tracking (DEs) etc, 275 square is a great size and very readily available. 275/35x18 is a great sidewall / rolling resistance. You don't need a 10'' wheel to fit a 275. You can get by with the old factory 8.5''s. Pick a tire that lasts (unless you have an unlimited budget). If you do a few days here and there, and don't have an extra set of wheels, pick a NT01 or similar tire that will hold up on the highway, but perform great at the track.

If you have a separate set of wheels / tires and have more than stock brakes suspension, and are ready to move up, go to an R compound tire, (wider is always better) that will take you to the next comfort level. I tell all of my students who are new (less than 10 events), don't go to an R until you've reached the limits of your car. Most students don't realize what that limit is.
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      01-23-2014, 04:33 PM   #12
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I agree with the idea of purchasing (4) wheels of the same size and offset. The ability to rotate wheels/tires to all 4 corners of the car is incredibly helpful getting the most life out of your tires....which is really what every DE (and race) guy wants.

18" x 9.5" square is an easy fit with 275/35/18, and will perform great. I wouldn't spend more money on a 285 tire and squeeze it on a 9.5" wheel...you're just not getting the benefit of the extra rubber because it's pinched.

18" x 10" square is also a pretty easy fit. You could run 285/30 tire on that wheel, but 275/35 would be just fine too, and you would not have the clearance issues/rubbing in the front that you may have with the 285's.

If you're running Hoosiers (R6/A6), check the specs. Even though it sounds like their 295/30/18 should offer more rubber to the ground than one of their 285/30/18...in reality it doesn't. The tread width is actually .1" wider on the 285. The 285 is also 1.2lbs lighter/tire, and is shorter in diameter which gives you better gearing.
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      01-24-2014, 01:31 AM   #13
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I run a square setup 18x10 apex ec7 with hankook TD 285/30/18 tires.

Front tire rubs on my ohlins coilovers with -3.5 camber.

Just sharing some info in case u are wondering about rubbing issues.
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      01-29-2014, 06:09 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OC3 View Post
I'm guessing that the OP already has staggered wheels, wants to try 285 squared tires without having to buy a set of (squared) wheels...
You are absolutely right OC3. I currently have a staggered TE37 black series and I've had bit of a hard time getting front set to match. Apex wheels appear to be the ones offering the perfect 10 x 18 with proper offset. Trying to avoid throwing in another 4k in wheels. Also I guess I'll be getting rid the of the brand new Td in the garage.
I only wished the R-S3 I currently run came in 275/35/18.
Just simply wanted to get an idea of what people have tried and was hoping people won't read too much into "True Square". I was just simply interested in how precise u have to be since there is so much in side wall difference even when aspect ratios read the same. Size option when trying to go square may not be available in the tire brand I've gotten used to over the years. Just wondering how people would run R-S3 square without dropping down to 265/35/18.
Time to find out if the NT-01 will clear my rear fender as I'll be getting the Apex next.
Thanks again guys
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      01-29-2014, 06:18 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92inSG View Post
I run a square setup 18x10 apex ec7 with hankook TD 285/30/18 tires.

Front tire rubs on my ohlins coilovers with -3.5 camber.

Just sharing some info in case u are wondering about rubbing issues.
Thanks for the sharing I'd definitely keep that in mind. Guess u like R-S3 as welll. With the half cage, I lost ability to store 4 tires in the car. I can only manage a spare tire jack and tools in the trunk now. The R-s3 are very streetable for those 500mile trackday trips. They held up even when the weather changed on way back home and it started pouring on the highway like crazy. Time to start dealing with spacers again. Thanks for the advice.
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      01-29-2014, 06:22 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Triple M View Post
Thanks for the sharing I'd definitely keep that in mind. Guess u like R-S3 as welll. With the half cage, I lost ability to store 4 tires in the car. I can only manage a spare tire jack and tools in the trunk now. The R-s3 are very streetable for those 500mile trackday trips. They held up even when the weather changed on way back home and it started pouring on the highway like crazy. Time to start dealing with spacers again. Thanks for the advice.
yes i do love the RS3 but might as well go for dedicated track tires since i invested in spare wheels.

have decided to go for a 5mm spacer all round to deal with the rubbing issues up front. hope that works.

having to drive 300kms to the track on semi slicks isnt fun though when it rains
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      01-29-2014, 06:23 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J Smith View Post
I agree with the idea of purchasing (4) wheels of the same size and offset. The ability to rotate wheels/tires to all 4 corners of the car is incredibly helpful getting the most life out of your tires....which is really what every DE (and race) guy wants.

18" x 9.5" square is an easy fit with 275/35/18, and will perform great. I wouldn't spend more money on a 285 tire and squeeze it on a 9.5" wheel...you're just not getting the benefit of the extra rubber because it's pinched.

18" x 10" square is also a pretty easy fit. You could run 285/30 tire on that wheel, but 275/35 would be just fine too, and you would not have the clearance issues/rubbing in the front that you may have with the 285's.

If you're running Hoosiers (R6/A6), check the specs. Even though it sounds like their 295/30/18 should offer more rubber to the ground than one of their 285/30/18...in reality it doesn't. The tread width is actually .1" wider on the 285. The 285 is also 1.2lbs lighter/tire, and is shorter in diameter which gives you better gearing.
Thanks a mill Josh,
Best advice I've gotten so Fay. I have alway wondered about 9.5 in the rear. I don't know anyone else other than race teams using them. It's good to know 275 on 9.5 in the rear will work. Thanks
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      01-29-2014, 06:26 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E92inSG View Post
yes i do love the RS3 but might as well go for dedicated track tires since i invested in spare wheels.

have decided to go for a 5mm spacer all round to deal with the rubbing issues up front. hope that works.

having to drive 300kms to the track on semi slicks isnt fun though when it rains
I completely agree. Strange how the drive to the track is a lot scarier than the track itself. I know the feeling

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      01-29-2014, 06:41 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple M View Post
You are absolutely right OC3. I currently have a staggered TE37 black series and I've had bit of a hard time getting front set to match. Apex wheels appear to be the ones offering the perfect 10 x 18 with proper offset. Trying to avoid throwing in another 4k in wheels. Also I guess I'll be getting rid the of the brand new Td in the garage.
I only wished the R-S3 I currently run came in 275/35/18.
Just simply wanted to get an idea of what people have tried and was hoping people won't read too much into "True Square". I was just simply interested in how precise u have to be since there is so much in side wall difference even when aspect ratios read the same. Size option when trying to go square may not be available in the tire brand I've gotten used to over the years. Just wondering how people would run R-S3 square without dropping down to 265/35/18.
Time to find out if the NT-01 will clear my rear fender as I'll be getting the Apex next.
Thanks again guys
Why not just sell the staggered TE37's and buy a set of squared TE37's (18x10.5)?

Both my sets of TE37's are 18x10.5 squared and I run 285/30/18 squared TD's on'em with virtually no rubbing & don't need spacer (and, same when I run squared 275/35/18 NT01's).

Which suspension you running?
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      01-29-2014, 08:57 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Why not just sell the staggered TE37's and buy a set of squared TE37's (18x10.5)?

Both my sets of TE37's are 18x10.5 squared and I run 285/30/18 squared TD's on'em with virtually no rubbing & don't need spacer (and, same when I run squared 275/35/18 NT01's).

Which suspension you running?

Kw competition 2-way adjustable
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      03-23-2014, 02:43 AM   #21
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How does the TDs compare to nt01s?
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      03-23-2014, 08:57 AM   #22
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How does the TDs compare to nt01s?

Havent ran NT01 in a while, but the TDs are quite sticky, and fast. Based on their higher pricing, I would recommend NT-01 over TD if you are not fixated on running 285 rear. NT-01 are pretty damn good tires and they will last you much longer than TDs, and probably just as fast.
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