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      02-09-2014, 02:20 PM   #353
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Correct, they can... but they shouldn't have to
Yes they should, something is always changing, tire temps, grip level, slow traffic, whatever. Good driver by definition micromanages his situation.
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      02-09-2014, 02:28 PM   #354
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Still looks like an old n tired 'vette with some added sharp angles and stealing from other cars. I can see they stole from the GT-R rear extending the rear much lower and took the M3 hood bump. Still does not look young and dynamic but more like a sexagenarian fed on burger king. The body lines are way too complicated. It just look like the old vette with a cloak of jagged line on top. I admit I hate vettes and anything with a pushrod engine. But it would be a nice car for Grandpa.
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      02-09-2014, 03:31 PM   #355
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Yes they should, something is always changing, tire temps, grip level, slow traffic, whatever. Good driver by definition micromanages his situation.
Let me rephrase... they shouldn't have to adjust for inferior technology in the car Not saying the auto will be inferior. My point wasn't that a driver doesn't need to make on-track adjustments (we both know that is part of the fun) but it shouldn't be because the manufacturer put a less than optimal transmission in a car as capable as the Z06 (again, not saying this is what will happen).
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      02-09-2014, 03:32 PM   #356
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Correct, I misspoke, you can't get more power to the wheels than you have power at the crank and power is what gives you acceleration, not torque... I also meant torque converter not clutch, d'oh... However, there are considerable losses from the conditions near stall when torque is multiplied, which will get you less power to the wheels.
Not really. Power is just a number used by marketing departments to sell cars. What makes you accelerate is torque. Just like acceleration is proportional to force in a straight line, the acceleration of a rotating mass is proportional to the torque applied. Power is just the product of torque and rotational speeds. With the torque multiplication you get at idle, an autobox can get the car out of a dig much quicker than a clutch. Yes, there are some losses at high rotational speed, which is why most torque converters nowadays have clutches that lock the two halves together and effectively bypasses the torque converter at high speeds. But when starting off from a stop, torque converters are actually very very good. That's why drag racers love them.
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Still looks like an old n tired 'vette with some added sharp angles and stealing from other cars. I can see they stole from the GT-R rear extending the rear much lower and took the M3 hood bump. Still does not look young and dynamic but more like a sexagenarian fed on burger king. The body lines are way too complicated. It just look like the old vette with a cloak of jagged line on top. I admit I hate vettes and anything with a pushrod engine. But it would be a nice car for Grandpa.
Yeah and that "grandpa car" will run circles around your 3 series grocery getter
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      02-09-2014, 03:34 PM   #357
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Let me rephrase... they shouldn't have to adjust for inferior technology in the car Not saying the auto will be inferior. My point wasn't that a driver doesn't need to make on-track adjustments (we both know that is part of the fun) but it shouldn't be because the manufacturer put a less than optimal transmission in a car as capable as the Z06 (again, not saying this is what will happen).
I know what you were saying just busting your balls a little. I know your experience. Still in the e36 and loving it?
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      02-09-2014, 03:37 PM   #358
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Originally Posted by gthal View Post
Let me rephrase... they shouldn't have to adjust for inferior technology in the car Not saying the auto will be inferior. My point wasn't that a driver doesn't need to make on-track adjustments (we both know that is part of the fun) but it shouldn't be because the manufacturer put a less than optimal transmission in a car as capable as the Z06 (again, not saying this is what will happen).
What makes you think it will be less than optimal? It will very likely launch better than a DCT because the torque converter will help magnify torque and you won't have to fiddle with sophisticated software to keep the clutches from self destructing like with a DCT. At speed it will upshift faster than a PDK. And downshifts will probably be very good too. And even if it was a few milliseconds slower on the downshift, that's not something anyone will notice or care about. And it will possibly also be chaper, more reliable and easier to fix than a DCT.
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      02-09-2014, 03:42 PM   #359
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Originally Posted by sunsweet View Post
Still looks like an old n tired 'vette with some added sharp angles and stealing from other cars. I can see they stole from the GT-R rear extending the rear much lower and took the M3 hood bump. Still does not look young and dynamic but more like a sexagenarian fed on burger king. The body lines are way too complicated. It just look like the old vette with a cloak of jagged line on top. I admit I hate vettes and anything with a pushrod engine. But it would be a nice car for Grandpa.
I agree. This old n tired vette is for grandpas and grandmas. You should get toyota prius. I hear, it is phenomenal
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      02-09-2014, 03:45 PM   #360
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Still looks like an old n tired 'vette with some added sharp angles and stealing from other cars. I can see they stole from the GT-R rear extending the rear much lower and took the M3 hood bump. Still does not look young and dynamic but more like a sexagenarian fed on burger king. The body lines are way too complicated. It just look like the old vette with a cloak of jagged line on top. I admit I hate vettes and anything with a pushrod engine. But it would be a nice car for Grandpa.
What are you smoking man ?
To much of THC ?
Sorry man but your comment sounds like BS
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      02-09-2014, 04:42 PM   #361
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What makes you think it will be less than optimal? It will very likely launch better than a DCT because the torque converter will help magnify torque and you won't have to fiddle with sophisticated software to keep the clutches from self destructing like with a DCT. At speed it will upshift faster than a PDK. And downshifts will probably be very good too. And even if it was a few milliseconds slower on the downshift, that's not something anyone will notice or care about. And it will possibly also be chaper, more reliable and easier to fix than a DCT.
First... I've been pretty clear that I'm confident GM will get it right. Second... if I'm at all pessimistic it is because of my experience with modern and capable torque converters and modern and capable DCTs.
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      02-09-2014, 04:45 PM   #362
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I know what you were saying just busting your balls a little. I know your experience. Still in the e36 and loving it?
I knew you were

Sold the E36 and the buyer made it into a true race car... it was a fantastic car and I loved every minute of it. Best track car I have ever driven. Sold it to make room for the C7. Still second guessing myself on that.
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      02-09-2014, 04:49 PM   #363
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I knew you were

Sold the E36 and the buyer made it into a true race car... it was a fantastic car and I loved every minute of it. Best track car I have ever driven. Sold it to make room for the C7. Still second guessing myself on that.
Yeah depends on your goals. Put a little into the c7 and it should deliver smiles for miles!
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      02-09-2014, 05:45 PM   #364
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I agree. This old n tired vette is for grandpas and grandmas. You should get toyota prius. I hear, it is phenomenal
you don't agree but your reply has the na´vetÚ of an 8 year old, except they will learn but you never will. Yeah, many people hate vettes. I do. I would get a high revving V10 DOHC or V12 anytime over a modified tractor engine. You bought a 135i ? ...don't waste my time, boy.
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      02-09-2014, 06:07 PM   #365
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you don't agree but your reply has the na´vetÚ of an 8 year old, except they will learn but you never will. Yeah, many people hate vettes. I do. I would get a high revving V10 DOHC or V12 anytime over a modified tractor engine. You bought a 135i ? ...don't waste my time, boy.
Honestly, you look like a moron to me. My guess is, you look like a moron to everybody else who is reading this thread.
One more thing. If you bring your M3 to any track in the north east, i am willing to bet, i will beat your punk ass with my 135i.
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      02-09-2014, 06:20 PM   #366
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you don't agree but your reply has the na´vetÚ of an 8 year old, except they will learn but you never will. Yeah, many people hate vettes. I do. I would get a high revving V10 DOHC or V12 anytime over a modified tractor engine. You bought a 135i ? ...don't waste my time, boy.
Sad...

Hopefully you don't get lapped by one of those modified tractor engines the next time you are at the track... Considering there are few cars that will be able to keep up with it (including most of your V10/12 engines), I would think my prediction is pretty accurate. I hate those tractor engines too

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      02-09-2014, 06:21 PM   #367
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Honestly, you look like a moron to me. My guess is, you look like a moron to everybody else who is reading this thread.
One more thing. If you bring your M3 to any track in the north east, i am willing to bet, i will beat your punk ass with my 135i.
Ah geez, this is a z06 thread. No m3 on 135 challenges! Its a draw you both lose.
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      02-09-2014, 10:21 PM   #368
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Still looks like an old n tired 'vette with some added sharp angles and stealing from other cars. I can see they stole from the GT-R rear extending the rear much lower and took the M3 hood bump. Still does not look young and dynamic but more like a sexagenarian fed on burger king. The body lines are way too complicated. It just look like the old vette with a cloak of jagged line on top. I admit I hate vettes and anything with a pushrod engine. But it would be a nice car for Grandpa.
U mad bro?
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      02-09-2014, 11:50 PM   #369
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Not really. Power is just a number used by marketing departments to sell cars. What makes you accelerate is torque. Just like acceleration is proportional to force in a straight line, the acceleration of a rotating mass is proportional to the torque applied. Power is just the product of torque and rotational speeds.
I don't really want to start another epic torque vs. horsepower debate. They are ALWAYS lost...

If you feel as you stated about power above you have some serious learning to do. Power is a very fundamental physics/physics concept as it torque. When something is being driven rotationally both are always present. However, vehicle performance is ALL ABOUT power (power to weight, of course). You do realize that you can double (or any other amount you like) the torque an engine puts out at the crank and if you do not increase the power, the car will accelerate identically? You CAN NOT do that with power. Without also knowing gearing, torque at the crank is utterly useless in determining vehicle performance.

I kindly suggest reading one of the many epic debates/conversations here on this forum about the topic. I really am going to bite my tongue and won't discuss this further until you have bothered to do so.
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      02-10-2014, 12:02 AM   #370
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U mad bro?
No it's cool bro, the vette formula just feels ancient to me. Imagine in the future if progresses in genetics and biocells biotechnology can recreate a live dinosaur. That's how i feel when I see any vette including this stingray zo*. To me chevy's have always followed the principle "if it's not broken, don't fix it" as an excuse for serving the same old tired cars for 30 years. Obviously muscle cars satisfy some drivers. It's a lot like those body builders that inject steroids. Looking big, lifting heavy but look at a fighter it's not about the max weight he can bench. The same for cars trying to have the biggest numbers on tq and hp. Those vettes/stingray is like a prehistoric specie that should already have become extinct and living on borrowed time.
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      02-10-2014, 12:03 AM   #371
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I don't really want to start another epic torque vs. horsepower debate. They are ALWAYS lost...

If you feel as you stated about power above you have some serious learning to do. Power is a very fundamental physics/physics concept as it torque. When something is being driven rotationally both are always present. However, vehicle performance is ALL ABOUT power (power to weight, of course). You do realize that you can double (or any other amount you like) the torque an engine puts out at the crank and if you do not increase the power, the car will accelerate identically? You CAN NOT do that with power. Without also knowing gearing, torque at the crank is utterly useless in determining vehicle performance.

I kindly suggest reading one of the many epic debates/conversations here on this forum about the topic. I really am going to bite my tongue and won't discuss this further until you have bothered to do so.
Well, you're the one who seems to be confused about this topic. I have 2 university degrees so I'm sure about what I'm talking about. Power is simply the PRODUCT of both torque and rotational speed. You keep talking as if they are separate things. If you increase the torque output of an engine, for example by supercharging it, then you cannot possibly not increase the power output at the same rotational speed. Torque is the independent variable, the one along the x axis. Power is the dependent variable. It is on the y axis and is a function of torque. Saying that car A is faster than car B because it has a higher peak horsepower is nonsense. What matters is the torque curve at the wheels as the speed increases from stop to the desired top speed. This is dependent on two things, the torque output of the engine, and the torque magnification through the gears of the transmission and differential. Power and torque are not separate and independent entities like you make them seem. Power is a function of torque and is determined by torque and rotational speed only. It's just like power for an object moving in a straight line, just a product of the force and the speed of the object.
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      02-10-2014, 04:21 AM   #372
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No it's cool bro, the vette formula just feels ancient to me. Imagine in the future if progresses in genetics and biocells biotechnology can recreate a live dinosaur. That's how i feel when I see any vette including this stingray zo*. To me chevy's have always followed the principle "if it's not broken, don't fix it" as an excuse for serving the same old tired cars for 30 years. Obviously muscle cars satisfy some drivers. It's a lot like those body builders that inject steroids. Looking big, lifting heavy but look at a fighter it's not about the max weight he can bench. The same for cars trying to have the biggest numbers on tq and hp. Those vettes/stingray is like a prehistoric specie that should already have become extinct and living on borrowed time.
There is so much lol here that, I cant anymore. May God have mercy on your soul.
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      02-10-2014, 11:07 AM   #373
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Well, you're the one who seems to be confused about this topic. I have 2 university degrees so I'm sure about what I'm talking about. Power is simply the PRODUCT of both torque and rotational speed. You keep talking as if they are separate things. If you increase the torque output of an engine, for example by supercharging it, then you cannot possibly not increase the power output at the same rotational speed. Torque is the independent variable, the one along the x axis. Power is the dependent variable. It is on the y axis and is a function of torque. Saying that car A is faster than car B because it has a higher peak horsepower is nonsense. What matters is the torque curve at the wheels as the speed increases from stop to the desired top speed. This is dependent on two things, the torque output of the engine, and the torque magnification through the gears of the transmission and differential. Power and torque are not separate and independent entities like you make them seem. Power is a function of torque and is determined by torque and rotational speed only. It's just like power for an object moving in a straight line, just a product of the force and the speed of the object.
Great post
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      02-10-2014, 12:23 PM   #374
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There is so much lol here that, I cant anymore. May God have mercy on your soul.
He is just mad he lives in the land of Nascar.
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