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      01-09-2014, 04:53 PM   #23
Alex07M3
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Originally Posted by dmk08
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Yes it is, but it has AWD and a shit load of torque tho!
My point was that if it's as fast around a track will anyone care how much it weighs? No one cares how much the GTR weighs cause it's fast.
What I meant was that the GT-R hide its weight well because a lot of it comes from the tranny which is at the lowest point of the car, and having all that torque does'nt heart either! I believe a 3900lbs sport sedan could feel rather light on its feet but lets just say that I have more faith in a 3300lbs M car then a 3900lbs Lexus when it comes to driving dynamics!
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      01-09-2014, 04:55 PM   #24
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Now that looks like a car that stands apart from the base model cars from lexus. The M4 looks like a 4 series M-sport with a quad exhaust and features an engine built around cost cutting.
I have to agree on that!

It's just sad that the Lexus as this ugly front end!
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      01-09-2014, 07:02 PM   #25
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      01-09-2014, 10:43 PM   #26
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Anybody want to make a bet an M4 with DCT, full fluids, 19" wheels, and sunroof is more like 3500 pounds and not 3300 pounds?

The E90 M3 with DCT and full fluids is 3700 pounds. The old IS-F with sun roof and full fluids AND spare tire and jack is 3800 pounds.

The new M4 is 176 pounds lighter than the old M3 according the BMW. How is 3700 - 176 = 3300?

If the RC-F really is 3900 pounds with 480 hp vs. the M4 which I think is more like 3500 pounds, performance will be quite similar.

Oh, also, for the first time, Lexus will actually use PSS standard instead of RE050 which suck and always leads to crappy #s on the magazines AND, they will use the same width tires also 255 up front and 275 in the rear instead of using a size smaller like in the past.

I've got my bag of popcorn and anxiously waiting the comparos...
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      01-09-2014, 10:54 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothDoc
Anybody want to make a bet an M4 with DCT, full fluids, 19" wheels, and sunroof is more like 3500 pounds and not 3300 pounds?

The E90 M3 with DCT and full fluids is 3700 pounds. The old IS-F with sun roof and full fluids AND spare tire and jack is 3800 pounds.

The new M4 is 176 pounds lighter than the old M3 according the BMW. How is 3700 - 176 = 3300?

If the RC-F really is 3900 pounds with 480 hp vs. the M4 which I think is more like 3500 pounds, performance will be quite similar.

Oh, also, for the first time, Lexus will actually use PSS standard instead of RE050 which suck and always leads to crappy #s on the magazines AND, they will use the same width tires also 255 up front and 275 in the rear instead of using a size smaller like in the past.

I've got my bag of popcorn and anxiously waiting the comparos...
I'm excited too, but regardless of what the m4 weighs or does not weigh, 3900 lbs is still way too high for a sports coupe and will affect handling. We shall see how well they've "hidden" the weight. I can't wait. Better yet, hopefully that number is wrong.
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      01-09-2014, 11:10 PM   #28
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I really like the rear end but the front is hideous. I don't think Lexus designed the new gen IS well.
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      01-09-2014, 11:13 PM   #29
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Agree, 3900 pounds is too high for a sports coupe, but Lexus is trying to make it a LUXURY sports coupe so you need all the sound deadening, trim, sun roof, fancy stereo. Having said that, the 3800+ pound GT-R seems to handle alright and the last gen CTS-V at over 4000 did alright too. I think it's more a function of power/weight and traction and this new RC-F has much more HP and much better rubber.

If I wanted to buy a lightweight sports car with more performance orientation, I'm sure we can all agree a C7 Z06, GT-R, 991 GT3, etc. all outperform the RC-F and M4. Those were designed up as sports cars whereas the M4 and RC-F were designed as luxury coupes that were tweaked to be sporty.
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      01-09-2014, 11:16 PM   #30
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Compression ratio is a high 12.3 but how in the world did ferrari pull off the 14.0:1 in the new 458????????? I'm also glad to see Lexus kept the port injection to keep the valves from collecting carbon. I'm not looking forward to all the DI valves in the next few years needing walnut shell blasting. Mine included...
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      01-09-2014, 11:16 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothDoc View Post
Anybody want to make a bet an M4 with DCT, full fluids, 19" wheels, and sunroof is more like 3500 pounds and not 3300 pounds?

The E90 M3 with DCT and full fluids is 3700 pounds. The old IS-F with sun roof and full fluids AND spare tire and jack is 3800 pounds.

The new M4 is 176 pounds lighter than the old M3 according the BMW. How is 3700 - 176 = 3300?

If the RC-F really is 3900 pounds with 480 hp vs. the M4 which I think is more like 3500 pounds, performance will be quite similar.

Oh, also, for the first time, Lexus will actually use PSS standard instead of RE050 which suck and always leads to crappy #s on the magazines AND, they will use the same width tires also 255 up front and 275 in the rear instead of using a size smaller like in the past.

I've got my bag of popcorn and anxiously waiting the comparos...
I'll take that bet
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      01-09-2014, 11:53 PM   #32
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3,900 lbs doesn't make sense. Is Toyota really that dumb to basically lose the competition even before it occurs?
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      01-10-2014, 12:16 AM   #33
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That car is gross. I'll keep my M3.
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      01-10-2014, 09:49 AM   #34
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What the hell were they thinking with that front end. VOMIT!!!
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      01-10-2014, 11:45 AM   #35
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Just for the weight guys. My m3 weighs 3714 with me in it and I'm 176-178.

So that's 3538. Fully loaded DCT coupe
I have an aftermarket muffler and apex 18's that saved a little not a lot.

Edit: with fluids and half a tank of gas.

Last edited by TheKosherStogie; 01-10-2014 at 12:48 PM.
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      01-10-2014, 12:01 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD
Just for the weight guys. My m3 weighs 3714 with me in it and I'm 176-178.

So that's 3538. Fully loaded DCT coupe
I have an aftermarket muffler and apex 18's that saved a little not a lot.
Oh wow, that's surprisingly light for a DCT car, I imagine mine could be close to that since I'm manual and I have MPE+test pipes that saves some weigth but the VT1 that adds some!
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      01-10-2014, 04:18 PM   #37
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      01-10-2014, 05:07 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothDoc View Post
Anybody want to make a bet an M4 with DCT, full fluids, 19" wheels, and sunroof is more like 3500 pounds and not 3300 pounds?

The E90 M3 with DCT and full fluids is 3700 pounds. The old IS-F with sun roof and full fluids AND spare tire and jack is 3800 pounds.

The new M4 is 176 pounds lighter than the old M3 according the BMW. How is 3700 - 176 = 3300?

If the RC-F really is 3900 pounds with 480 hp vs. the M4 which I think is more like 3500 pounds, performance will be quite similar.

Oh, also, for the first time, Lexus will actually use PSS standard instead of RE050 which suck and always leads to crappy #s on the magazines AND, they will use the same width tires also 255 up front and 275 in the rear instead of using a size smaller like in the past.

I've got my bag of popcorn and anxiously waiting the comparos...
I like how you put things into perspective! Isn't the E60 M5 way more than 3,900 pounds, with 500hp? It beats an E90 M3 around a track with less weight, no? The weight arguement is a mute point. Folks who are crying about styling, and the 8-speed auto, however, have a point.
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      01-10-2014, 05:18 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Killerfish2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothDoc View Post
Anybody want to make a bet an M4 with DCT, full fluids, 19" wheels, and sunroof is more like 3500 pounds and not 3300 pounds?

The E90 M3 with DCT and full fluids is 3700 pounds. The old IS-F with sun roof and full fluids AND spare tire and jack is 3800 pounds.

The new M4 is 176 pounds lighter than the old M3 according the BMW. How is 3700 - 176 = 3300?

If the RC-F really is 3900 pounds with 480 hp vs. the M4 which I think is more like 3500 pounds, performance will be quite similar.

Oh, also, for the first time, Lexus will actually use PSS standard instead of RE050 which suck and always leads to crappy #s on the magazines AND, they will use the same width tires also 255 up front and 275 in the rear instead of using a size smaller like in the past.

I've got my bag of popcorn and anxiously waiting the comparos...
I like how you put things into perspective! Isn't the E60 M5 way more than 3,900 pounds, with 500hp? It beats an E90 M3 around a track with less weight, no? The weight arguement is a mute point. Folks who are crying about styling, and the 8-speed auto, however, have a point.
Are you sure the V10 M5 is faster around tracks then the M3, I always thought the M5 was faster in straight line but the M3 was the faster track car?!
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      01-10-2014, 05:27 PM   #40
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Quote:
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Anybody want to make a bet an M4 with DCT, full fluids, 19" wheels, and sunroof is more like 3500 pounds and not 3300 pounds?
That 3,300 was a genius marketing exercise by BMW.

Lets all remember the 435i curb weight is 3,610 lbs on BMWUSA. Some carbon body panels, carbon driveshaft, etc...just don't add up.

The curb weight under specifications on BMWUSA will not say 3,300 lbs.
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      01-10-2014, 07:01 PM   #41
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That 3,300 was a genius marketing exercise by BMW.

Lets all remember the 435i curb weight is 3,610 lbs on BMWUSA. Some carbon body panels, carbon driveshaft, etc...just don't add up.

The curb weight under specifications on BMWUSA will not say 3,300 lbs.
This point is already well settled. BMW NA web uses weights with driver. The 3300 lb figure does not include driver (that's a huge difference). It may or may not include ~40 lb of savings from CSiC brakes. If BMW is being honest it should not need the brakes to be 80 kg lighter than a similarly equipped E92 M3. That latter is nearly an exact quote from BMW M on the cars weight.
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      01-10-2014, 10:53 PM   #42
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M5 is faster around the track than an M3?... lol
Recently Autobid German ethusiast publication tested all M Models to see which M would be fastest around Sachsenring racetrack here are results
1.M3 GTS semi slick tires 1:37.30
2.M3 CRT 1:38.37
3.M5 F10 1:38.90
4.1M 1:40.18
5.M3 coupe 1:40.52
6.M3 sedan 1:40.60
7.M3 vert 1:42.63
8.X6M 1:43.67
9.X5M 1:43.72
10. E60 M5 1:43.77

Now GTS and CRT are special addition purpose built true track ready cars this was not surprising in least. I'm more interested in the standard cars,such as a normal M3, M5, and 1M this is where it gets interesting M5 is just three hundredth of second slower than the special edition M3 CRT now that's impressive even more so was how well 1M did considering its price and power now that amazing. So if you are ranking them as standard M cars, non special edition cars this is how they would rank

1. M5 1:38.90
2. 1M 1:40.18
3. M3 1:40.52
4. M3 sedan1:40.60
5. M3 vert 1:42.63

So to answer your question yes standard M5 is faster than the standard M3 around the track. And to answer a bigger questions yes New modern higher horsepower heavier sport sedans and coupes can trump a lighter weight Less powerful sport sedans and coupes go figure.

Of bigboys the Panamera was faster 1:38.13 than the M5 1:38.90, but the M5 with more than 2 sec faster than the E 63 AMG 1:40.59
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      01-10-2014, 11:06 PM   #43
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      01-10-2014, 11:24 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davcrz5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dashman View Post
M5 is faster around the track than an M3?... lol
Recently Autobid German ethusiast publication tested all M Models to see which M would be fastest around Sachsenring racetrack here are results
1.M3 GTS semi slick tires 1:37.30
2.M3 CRT 1:38.37
3.M5 F10 1:38.90
4.1M 1:40.18
5.M3 coupe 1:40.52
6.M3 sedan 1:40.60
7.M3 vert 1:42.63
8.X6M 1:43.67
9.X5M 1:43.72
10. E60 M5 1:43.77

Now GTS and CRT are special addition purpose built true track ready cars this was not surprising in least. I'm more interested in the standard cars,such as a normal M3, M5, and 1M this is where it gets interesting M5 is just three hundredth of second slower than the special edition M3 CRT now that's impressive even more so was how well 1M did considering its price and power now that amazing. So if you are ranking them as standard M cars, non special edition cars this is how they would rank

1. M5 1:38.90
2. 1M 1:40.18
3. M3 1:40.52
4. M3 sedan1:40.60
5. M3 vert 1:42.63

So to answer your question yes standard M5 is faster than the standard M3 around the track. And to answer a bigger questions yes New modern higher horsepower heavier sport sedans and coupes can trump a lighter weight Less powerful sport sedans and coupes go figure.

Of bigboys the Panamera was faster 1:38.13 than the M5 1:38.90, but the M5 with more than 2 sec faster than the E 63 AMG 1:40.59
The above discussion was in reference to the e9x M3 vs E60 M5. But yes, it is amazing what the f10 m5 can do for being such a barge.
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