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      01-09-2014, 09:17 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Groundpilot View Post
Sorry for the off topic question, but doesnt ST-60 front only puts too much front bias with stock rear brakes? I hear that if you install front bbk only, ST-40 is the way to go. I need to reaserch more on this, because i will be installing front bbk, not rear as i think it will be more than enough for HPDE type of driving.
Bias should be fine, but from the people I've talked to the ST40 is plenty. I ran the ST40 on my E46 M3 and they were great. And as bigjae wheel selection is super limited with the ST60.

I'd skip the rear kit regardless. A few guys that built race cars had the F/R Stoptechs and then switched back to the stockers out back.
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      01-09-2014, 09:47 PM   #24
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I'd skip the rear kit regardless. A few guys that built race cars had the F/R Stoptechs and then switched back to the stockers out back.
I've never understood this. The rears are still a massive upgrade. Unless you get dinged on points or there are rules issues...I say its a no brainer. You have a lot more control under threshold braking. They save you money because your pads will last a lot longer. My pads have lasted 10 months with one pad rotation front to back. And the fronts are still a tad less than half.

Most of all, they make it a lot easier to trail brake way deeper into turns. See below. The E46M3 in front has just a front BBK. Our cars and driving skills are pretty similar. See how I eat him up in the hard braking zones? Then look at T10, he couldn't take the line I took because his rear end would get loose. I had no problems braking almost half way around that turn.



There might be some data that would say otherwise but I think the proof is in the end result. If I thought the rear brakes were so great...why bother upgrading the fronts when I can just put some ducts in?
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      01-09-2014, 10:41 PM   #25
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I don't disagree that rears are still a huge upgrade. But, for HPDE events, if bias is still ok, it can be had without them. My rears as it is, still last about 6-8 months or 8-12 events, while the fronts are gone in almost one weekend, sometimes one day depending on amount of sessions.

I can see the benefit however of doing pad rotation. But we all start somewhere, and I'll start front only for now.

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I've never understood this. The rears are still a massive upgrade. Unless you get dinged on points or there are rules issues...I say its a no brainer. You have a lot more control under threshold braking. They save you money because your pads will last a lot longer. My pads have lasted 10 months with one pad rotation front to back. And the fronts are still a tad less than half.

Most of all, they make it a lot easier to trail brake way deeper into turns. See below. The E46M3 in front has just a front BBK. Our cars and driving skills are pretty similar. See how I eat him up in the hard braking zones? Then look at T10, he couldn't take the line I took because his rear end would get loose. I had no problems braking almost half way around that turn.



There might be some data that would say otherwise but I think the proof is in the end result. If I thought the rear brakes were so great...why bother upgrading the fronts when I can just put some ducts in?
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      01-09-2014, 11:43 PM   #26
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Doesn't look *too* bad to me. You should be good. My bbk drilled rotors also looked similar to this and I ran them a long time post-cracks
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      01-09-2014, 11:47 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976
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Originally Posted by dmw16 View Post
I'd skip the rear kit regardless. A few guys that built race cars had the F/R Stoptechs and then switched back to the stockers out back.
I've never understood this. The rears are still a massive upgrade. Unless you get dinged on points or there are rules issues...I say its a no brainer. You have a lot more control under threshold braking. They save you money because your pads will last a lot longer. My pads have lasted 10 months with one pad rotation front to back. And the fronts are still a tad less than half.

Most of all, they make it a lot easier to trail brake way deeper into turns. See below. The E46M3 in front has just a front BBK. Our cars and driving skills are pretty similar. See how I eat him up in the hard braking zones? Then look at T10, he couldn't take the line I took because his rear end would get loose. I had no problems braking almost half way around that turn.



There might be some data that would say otherwise but I think the proof is in the end result. If I thought the rear brakes were so great...why bother upgrading the fronts when I can just put some ducts in?
Big +1 on rear bbk adding significant control. Had just a front first and was a world of a difference with trail braking/keeping rear in check once I added the rear bbk. My $0.02
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      01-10-2014, 01:33 PM   #28
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Quote:
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Doesn't look *too* bad to me. You should be good. My bbk drilled rotors also looked similar to this and I ran them a long time post-cracks
Thanks, will be ordering a set just for peace of mind "paranoia got to me".

Thanks for your input
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      01-10-2014, 09:16 PM   #29
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I don't disagree that rears are still a huge upgrade. But, for HPDE events, if bias is still ok, it can be had without them. My rears as it is, still last about 6-8 months or 8-12 events, while the fronts are gone in almost one weekend, sometimes one day depending on amount of sessions.

I can see the benefit however of doing pad rotation. But we all start somewhere, and I'll start front only for now.
My front pads lasted 5 weekends before I rotated them. Now the pads in front have seen 3 weekends and are still over 1/3 left. So if you are tearing through front pads in a weekend a rear BBK could save you money in the long run.
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      01-10-2014, 09:19 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
My front pads lasted 5 weekends before I rotated them. Now the pads in front have seen 3 weekends and are still over 1/3 left. So if you are tearing through front pads in a weekend a rear BBK could save you money in the long run.
Absolutely, and it's eventually my plan. But I need to justify it financially, and fronts now, then maybe rears later on by summer when it gets really hot. I also like to learn and notice progressive difference.

My main reason for the BBK is long run pad wear, I spend too much money on pads, that I can put into a nice BBK, and save in the long haul.

I don't have an issue stopping, maybe because I'm not fast enough yet .. but the pad wear is too much really.

Thanks again for the advice and input, keep it coming
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      01-10-2014, 09:35 PM   #31
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Absolutely, and it's eventually my plan. But I need to justify it financially, and fronts now, then maybe rears later on by summer when it gets really hot. I also like to learn and notice progressive difference.

My main reason for the BBK is long run pad wear, I spend too much money on pads, that I can put into a nice BBK, and save in the long haul.

I don't have an issue stopping, maybe because I'm not fast enough yet .. but the pad wear is too much really.

Thanks again for the advice and input, keep it coming
Let's use my data for comparison.

I can get about 12 weekends out of 2 sets of pads that I rotate front to rear a couple of times. Cost is about $300 for a set, so my pad costs are $50/weekend. Your rotors should be good for another year.

In your case, let's say a set of front or rear pads cost about $250 per axle. So let's say your front pads last 2 weekends and the rears last the entire 12 events. Your per event pad cost is almost $150/weekend. With that many pads, you'll easily need a new set of friction rings - $500/pr. So your brake costs are almost $200 per weekend.

A rear BBK can save you almost $150 per weekend or $1800/yr. The rear BBK may pay for itself in 2 years. OH...ST friction rings are cheaper than OEM rotors.
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      01-10-2014, 09:39 PM   #32
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Quote:
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Let's use my data for comparison.

I can get about 12 weekends out of 2 sets of pads that I rotate front to rear a couple of times. Cost is about $300 for a set, so my pad costs are $50/weekend. Your rotors should be good for another year.

In your case, let's say a set of front or rear pads cost about $250 per axle. So let's say your front pads last 2 weekends and the rears last the entire 12 events. Your per event pad cost is almost $150/weekend. With that many pads, you'll easily need a new set of friction rings - $500/pr. So your brake costs are almost $200 per weekend.

A rear BBK can save you almost $150 per weekend or $1800/yr. The rear BBK may pay for itself in 2 years. OH...ST friction rings are cheaper than OEM rotors.
You have problem my friend. Seek help. Can you do this with any mod?
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      01-10-2014, 09:57 PM   #33
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You have problem my friend. Seek help. Can you do this with any mod?
Don't get me started on 17" rims...
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      01-10-2014, 09:59 PM   #34
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Don't get me started on 17" rims...
can you explain why bw race exhaust is saving money and safer for me to my wife?
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      01-10-2014, 10:41 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
Let's use my data for comparison.

I can get about 12 weekends out of 2 sets of pads that I rotate front to rear a couple of times. Cost is about $300 for a set, so my pad costs are $50/weekend. Your rotors should be good for another year.

In your case, let's say a set of front or rear pads cost about $250 per axle. So let's say your front pads last 2 weekends and the rears last the entire 12 events. Your per event pad cost is almost $150/weekend. With that many pads, you'll easily need a new set of friction rings - $500/pr. So your brake costs are almost $200 per weekend.

A rear BBK can save you almost $150 per weekend or $1800/yr. The rear BBK may pay for itself in 2 years. OH...ST friction rings are cheaper than OEM rotors.
Do you work in sales? lol, cause I'm buying. Seriously though, if I can convince the Mrs on $5k now instead of $2.5K now and $2.5k later I would do it in a heart beat
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      01-10-2014, 10:46 PM   #36
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can you explain why bw race exhaust is saving money and safer for me to my wife?
Less weight = better gas mileage. Duh.
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      01-10-2014, 11:40 PM   #37
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Less weight = better gas mileage. Duh.
Plus its loud so not likely to surprise anyone in their blind spot.
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      01-11-2014, 12:04 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
Let's use my data for comparison.

I can get about 12 weekends out of 2 sets of pads that I rotate front to rear a couple of times. Cost is about $300 for a set, so my pad costs are $50/weekend. Your rotors should be good for another year.

In your case, let's say a set of front or rear pads cost about $250 per axle. So let's say your front pads last 2 weekends and the rears last the entire 12 events. Your per event pad cost is almost $150/weekend. With that many pads, you'll easily need a new set of friction rings - $500/pr. So your brake costs are almost $200 per weekend.

A rear BBK can save you almost $150 per weekend or $1800/yr. The rear BBK may pay for itself in 2 years. OH...ST friction rings are cheaper than OEM rotors.
Do you work in sales? lol, cause I'm buying. Seriously though, if I can convince the Mrs on $5k now instead of $2.5K now and $2.5k later I would do it in a heart beat
I'm all about saving $$$ when I can.
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      01-12-2014, 12:19 AM   #39
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People love to tell other people that they don't need a BBK. So, hey, we really don't NEED an M3 either...
Well let's not get crazy here. Of course you need an M3. I have two of them because that's "one more".

FWIW, I don't love to tell anyone anything. I offer my 2 decades of track and racing experience to help people. Just b/c what I said about need a big brake kit is true, doesn't mean I get some personal satisfaction out of crushing someone's BBK dream.

OP: if you are getting the BBK, enjoy it. You'll get to learn a few new things. I'm glad you aren't tracking those rotors in the pics. That may have turned into a "that won't buff out" situation.

Have fun!
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      01-12-2014, 10:10 AM   #40
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Just b/c what I said about need a big brake kit is true, doesn't mean I get some personal satisfaction out of crushing someone's BBK dream.
...you're no Dr. Phil. At least I'm helping to make marriages and BBKs become happier unions!

The car doesn't NEED at BBK...I agree. The OEM brakes work with the knowledge that they need some closer management than most would expect.

I look at it from a cost perspective. More so on the E9X M3...it will save you $$$ over the long run. I also think a $5k 4 wheel BBK is a much better place to spend your money vs an exhaust, mid pipe, and software (probably about $5k). Hell...even coilovers.

Can we all agree on that?
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      01-12-2014, 06:57 PM   #41
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Decision made, going front ST-40 for now, then rear in summer. Should be ordering in about a week or so, no point wasting money on rotors if I was eventually going to pull the trigger anyway.
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      01-13-2014, 03:52 PM   #42
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I look at it from a cost perspective. More so on the E9X M3...it will save you $$$ over the long run. I also think a $5k 4 wheel BBK is a much better place to spend your money vs an exhaust, mid pipe, and software (probably about $5k). Hell...even coilovers.
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      01-14-2014, 01:05 AM   #43
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...you're no Dr. Phil. At least I'm helping to make marriages and BBKs become happier unions!

The car doesn't NEED at BBK...I agree. The OEM brakes work with the knowledge that they need some closer management than most would expect.

I look at it from a cost perspective. More so on the E9X M3...it will save you $$$ over the long run. I also think a $5k 4 wheel BBK is a much better place to spend your money vs an exhaust, mid pipe, and software (probably about $5k). Hell...even coilovers.

Can we all agree on that?
Tires, suspension, brakes, in that order, if the goal is going faster. If it is saving money on track days, I don't know what that is. I have turned more Benjamins into noise over the years than I care to think about.
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      01-14-2014, 01:15 AM   #44
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Tires, suspension, brakes, in that order, if the goal is going faster. If it is saving money on track days, I don't know what that is. I have turned more Benjamins into noise over the years than I care to think about.
i think basically you need all 3 at the same time. if you get a track focused rcomp and have stock suspension and brakes both will be overshadowed and outmatched by the tires. to get the benefit out of the tires you need the suspension and brakes to be as focused.
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