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      01-05-2014, 02:23 AM   #67
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While I don't have a crystal ball, I think some of these CLA sales will start to taper off, it's the initial OMG 29k Merc hoopla. Everyone saying the M3/M4 are gonna regain BMW the crown - are these really high volume cars? Doesn't BMW sell more 3 series in a month than M3's in a year? The real problem is that the F30 will be in it's 4th MY while Merc will have a new C class and Audi a new A4. Maybe the real war amongst german oem's will be waged on the CLA-A3-128(?) front?
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      01-05-2014, 02:40 AM   #68
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The CLA looks crazy coming down the road and the AMG will be even more nuts n sell like crazy!

Surprised so many people dislike it!
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      01-05-2014, 02:58 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexmtl_135i View Post
Simple fact is that Mercedes changed their design and makes desirable good looking cars. BMW's new cars (1-3-4) except the M versions, are just plain ugly.
I totally agree.
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      01-05-2014, 03:05 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
Under $100k I would get a nicely loaded GL450. Nothing else interests me in the Mercedes line up under that price. Above $100k Mercedes has A LOT to offer (this is where I include the S class)
I dunno the C63 is a pretty wild ride for under $100k but I'm biased.
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      01-05-2014, 03:09 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev ///Me View Post
Merc doesn't have an 'AMG line'. I think that's what is their downfall. That and the cheap interior materials that are being used across the line.
Actually they do, it's called the AMG Sport Package and features AMG wheels and other more aggressive design cues. They just choose not to plaster the AMG logo everywhere (and thus, people think the package does not exist).
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      01-05-2014, 03:32 AM   #72
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+1........ the down fall will be to chase ever increasing sales and releasing half baked products or mundane boring appliances welcome to the new Toyota called BMW.

On the other hand Mercedes has improved its game by releasing halo super cars like SLS AMG and multiple black edition cars as well as the new S class and CLA45 AMG. The driving dynamics have been steadily increasing as well. The BMW has been on a slippery slope after the introduction of sold out 1M, nothing that is really exciting.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rupes View Post
Don't worry. The active touring 2 series will greatly increase their minivan market share. They'll just continue to release new vehicles until they regain the crown. Who cares if half these cars end up being crap as long as sales are up!
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      01-05-2014, 04:28 AM   #73
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The 2 series will be a top seller for BMW. I'm curious about the 2GC when will be released
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      01-05-2014, 04:31 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F30Drive
Are you kidding me? The CLA styling looks like a poor dogs breakfast!
The rear and interior are not good at all. I could see some people buying for the brand and all that, but as a quality car there is nothing there. I think that will bite the car in the ass as the people that bought one give it bad reviews to people that ask about it. Maybe I'm wrong and it's a good car but for 30ish thousand there are so many good new cars.
Clearly the numbers don't lie though. I will say that the new c class is looking very good. If the interior is as good as the pictures then I think it will be hard to beat.
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      01-05-2014, 05:26 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Metak2you
People mock AMG here on the forum, but when was the last time BMW built a flagship supercar? Not to mention MB's Black Series line is a step up from BMW's M line of cars.
+1

Sorry the i8 is not really a flagship Scott when in comparison to an SLS.

I've not seen head to head but my money would be on the SLS. As much as I think the i8 is stunning looking it won't be on my shopping list with the price tag it commands. Yeah I know it's sold out and that's great for BMW's profit margin but it isn't right to infer that it sits at the same table as the SLS.



What would the equivalent of something above M be?

We have sub lines of M Sport, M Performance, then there is M, so logically it would be M Racing? That sounds a bit pants as does MR? What would you call the Black Edition M?
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      01-05-2014, 05:38 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chappy View Post
BMW lost their way a couple years ago with the release of the worst ugly car front the 1 series and then the F30 no steering feel suspension too soft (trying be Lexus) and Lexus being the old BMW with steering feel and handling, then the release of the 4 series still pretty bland and too big 3 series with 2 doors nothing like the concept same interior as the F30 very poor.
Then Mercedes releases the A45 AMG and that just killed BMM as they have nothing to compare to this monster M135 is too ugly M235 is still not a M car, engines need updating to at least 350bhp too compete as Mercedes is releasing the twin turbo 3lt with 350bhp plus.
BMW has failed, only the M3 or M4 are any good M5 and M6 are just too big and too heavy period.
I will stick to my E92 tuned twin turbo 335i M-sport for a few more years yet.
It's funny how you praise the new M3 & M4 which haven't been released yet you mock the M5 & M6. By any chance have you owned the new M5 or M6 ?
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      01-05-2014, 08:25 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FogCityM3 View Post
Several of us have been saying this for a while now: that BMW straying from its enthusiast and performance roots will come to haunt them at some point and looks like it's starting to happen. Now there is a lack of differentiation with the other marques, many of whom have matched or surpassed BMW at their own game. I see this time and again across industries, once the focus on the core customer/values (that got a company to where it is in the first place) are lost, it is very hard to regain them. Porsche is a company that got it right.
The analogy that stands out in my mind is with IBM circa late 1980s. Gertsner's book about how he ended up being begged to take the job to save the company in 1993 is an interesting read as it was within a few months of bankruptcy with its cash flow situation at the time. How did it get in this position? Like how most big bureaucracies evolve, it got big, fat dumb and happy and milked its loyal customer base for all it was worth (and this was from a company known through its past as having the best management and management training in the world). Once that path is started, it's essentially unstoppable from within as you're viewed as a trouble-maker, not a team player, etc, should you try to reorient the path of the company.

BMW is guilty of milking the customer base as best they can (like how when things got a bit tough in 2008-9, they massively increased parts prices knowing that they could simply milk the customer for more...worked for a while, but one thing it did was greatly increase the market for "OEM" parts marketplace, so whether it was a long-term wise decision or not, time will tell, but the main issue is that NOBODY is measured anymore on long term wise decisions. What gets rewarded gets done, and short term success is what gets rewarded these days...to heck with the long term). They have relied on a reputation built over many decades, customer good will amassed by millions of hours of hard work over the years, and now the "wise" stewards in charge will gather up that good will and try to extract it from the marketplace in as quick of a time as possible. Why? Simply because that is what is rewarded in today's world. Measurements, bonuses, rewards are all based on near-term performance, and using up very strong and loyal customer good will can result in a few years of outstanding financial results (i.e. witness today's situation ).

Which all plays into the main focus of large companies like BMW. It's long ago left being about the end user, the customer, and turned into a game of financialization all focused on the short term, next quarter, next year's numbers.
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      01-05-2014, 08:27 AM   #78
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Wow after reading most of the previous comments I thought I was on a MB forum. If BMW decides to start chasing sales with god awful styling a la CLA, I'll go back to buying Audis. I saw a comment about how BMW is the new Toyota because of bland styling. Are you insinuating that this may be the reason they were beat in sales. Why else would you post BMW-Toyota comparison on an article with the topic of BMW being beat by MB in sales? Have you checked Toyota sales. I agree that Toyota's styling is ultra bland, but they sell a lot of cars. I think they may sell more than anyone else (or really close). So how can you equate bland styling to bad sales? BMW might care about being #1 in car sales, I don't. I used to buy Audi instead of BMW because they were a unique alternative to BMW. When they became as common as BMW (where I live), I figured I might as well just buy BMW. BMW already tried the ugly styling and I don't think it worked for them (think Bangle).

In my opinion MB only makes two cars that I'd buy over the competing BMW. Those are the yet to be released C-Class over the 3-Series and S-Class over 7-Series (I'd take the A8 over either). the CLS and CLA are the ugliest "luxury cars" on the market. If that is the styling direction that is needed to be #1 in sales, I'll proudly buy cars made by #2.

One last thing for all you E90/E92 owners that are constantly criticizing the F30/F32 for bland styling. Have you looked at your cars lately? They are about as bland of styling as it comes, especially the E92. Oh, and the interior styling is ultra bland and that bump over the iDrive screen is hideous. I owned 3 E92s (2 M3s and a 335is) and I think they are great looking cars, but they are pretty damn bland. That being said I like bland. My thought is if you own or love the styling of the E90/E92 than you like bland also, so stop complaining.

Last edited by JS919; 01-05-2014 at 08:57 AM.
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      01-05-2014, 08:42 AM   #79
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As of 05JAN2014, there are 89 models listed on BMWUSA website. Soon to be more, if I understand the rollouts correctly.

Why?

How does the dealer attempt to sell a lineup like that? For each given segment, the models all look like different lengths of sausage.

How many cars is the average BMW store carrying in inventory?


For comparison, MBUSA shows but 52.
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      01-05-2014, 09:00 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ybbiz34
Quote:
Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
Under $100k I would get a nicely loaded GL450. Nothing else interests me in the Mercedes line up under that price. Above $100k Mercedes has A LOT to offer (this is where I include the S class)
I dunno the C63 is a pretty wild ride for under $100k but I'm biased.
C63 is a great choice, I had forgotten about that one
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      01-05-2014, 09:30 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F30Drive View Post
Are you kidding me? The CLA styling looks like a poor dogs breakfast!
+1
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      01-05-2014, 09:35 AM   #82
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The CLA styling isn't that bad, it just looks a lot like a hatchback. The point here is the F20 1 series is the ugliest car in the market place by a very large margin.
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      01-05-2014, 09:35 AM   #83
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Even though BMW seem a bit confused these days, they seem more inspired than Audi at least. Audi may be doing well on paper but they have an endless supply of uninspired generic filth on the way
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      01-05-2014, 09:39 AM   #84
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Good... maybe BMW will become exclusive again if everyone doesn't have one.

CLA looks like it can be driven forwards or backwards...
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      01-05-2014, 09:44 AM   #85
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Also, BMW M should release X-drive variants of their cars now that the HP numbers are so high. So many buyers in the northern markets that would opt for an X-drive M5 or M6 GranCoupe (or M3/M4) but don't want it to be just for summer. AMG is doing AWD now which is great and AUDI has always had AWD in their RS models. Hard to stick to the M cars when the others offer more versatility for the daily driver.
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      01-05-2014, 10:18 AM   #86
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I work at a dealer and most dealers I know have a waiting list a mile long for the new X5. If we would have had more of these to sell BMW would have won. This is the real reason we didn't win, not because we aren't selling cars for enthusiast. Enthusiast don't spend money like "normal" people do. For every 100 clients who buy BMW's, about 1 or 2 of them know anything about the cars, history or passion behind BMW. I think people on here think all car buyers are like them, they aren't. They are normal people who like 328xi's and don't know what steering feel even is or what an E90 is. The enthusiast are typically stuck in a time morph driving their E46 ZHP and E39 540i. Don't get me wrong some enthusiast spend a lot of money on new cars but typically they don't keep a brand alive. Porsche is known as an enthusiast brand but they sell more Cayennes than all other models, most of the those buyers could care less about steering feel of the 991 v the 997. Sorry to rant but so many people here are negative towards everything BMW does and it gets annoying after awhile.
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      01-05-2014, 10:23 AM   #87
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CLA is the most expensive looking car for the money and that's what the majority of everyday drivers wants, I think this car will be key for them. Compare it to 2 series - which just looks like a cheap kids car
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      01-05-2014, 10:27 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IEDEI
Even though BMW seem a bit confused these days, they seem more inspired than Audi at least. Audi may be doing well on paper but they have an endless supply of uninspired generic filth on the way
Why make such blanket statements? Since I've graduated college I have exclusively owned a string of BMW's mostly Mcars. I've never owned an Audi but like several things they are putting out. The S/RS7 is stunning IMO. Of course the R8(Audis flagship supercar) is the obvious one. Some criticized that BMW was compared to Toyota but they have more similarities than MB or Audi to Toyota. Hell they even have a new partnership to make cars together. Neither Toyota or BMW has any interest in making anything remotely similar to the SLS or R8. Sure they like to talk about the Supra or M1 in concept form but decades go by and nothing. The i8 is an awesome car that is ahead of its time and I would have been interested in buying but as Scott already pointed out they are sold out already. Of course BMW won't say how many have been sold, 500, 1000...?

At any rate. If you are a life long BMW fan like myself, it is in our bet interest for MB and Audi to make awesome cars. The competition will result in better BMW's. If it doesn't , well BMW will see droves of people leaving for greener pastures....
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