BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis
 
GT Haus
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-17-2013, 08:59 PM   #1
Wendall
***Major MammelToe
 
Wendall's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3 SG coupe
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Orange County, CA

Posts: 1,146
iTrader: (3)

MRF solid aluminum subframe bushings

I recently had MRF solid subframe bushings and Turner Motorsport aluminum/delrin differential mounts installed - at MRF.

First off, I was a bit scared to get the solid subframe bushings installed because of the forums. There is a lot of misguided and misleading information from forum members. In fact, a lot of forum member's input regarding subframe bushings garbage. If they really think it causes NVH then they should be driving a Buick.

I decided to proceed with the solid differential and sub-frame install, mostly due to reviews from italyx and talking with Malek.

Malek was awesome as usual and my car was done on time.

Driving experience. There is no freaking increase in NVH from the sub-frame bushings! None at all, Unless your eardrums are on steroids. It sounds and feels no different than the rubber bushings.

However, with the aluminum/delrin turner motorsport differential mounts, there is slightly more noise. There is a slight whine that increases with speed, but it sounds awesome and the sound seems to level off once you get past 80mph. The noise is faint enough that it gets drowned out by rolling the windows down or playing music.I personally, love the noise, it sounds like a racecar - yet faint.

Performance wise. I noticed that my car no longer breaks loose at the top of 2nd and 3rd where it used to like clockwork. There is much more traction from reduced wheel hop. The car is more direct and feels more agile. It feels much closer to my Cayman s (which I use as my benchmark). It makes the car's chassis feel like a solid block of metal in which every input translates directly to an output.

I would say this is one of the best mods that increase performance by far.
__________________
E92 M3 SG DCT - AA Filter, Verstraβe Paddles, ECS SS, MH race stud, Stoptech BBK, MR Exhaust,RE Pulley, BPM Tune,Euro bumper and GTS lip, Euro MDM & DCT, KW CS, Recaro PP, TMS Soild Diff Mounts, MRF solid subframe mounts, GTS aero, RPM track built motor.


Last edited by Wendall; 12-18-2013 at 05:35 PM.
Wendall is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-18-2013, 03:24 AM   #2
Hujan
Major
 
Drives: 2013 E92 M3; 2010 Z4 35i
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: San Diego, CA

Posts: 1,344
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by biggynuts01 View Post
I recently had MRF solid subframe bushings and Turner Motorsport aluminum/delrin differential mounts installed - at MRF.

First off, I was a bit scared to get the solid subframe bushings installed because of the forums. There is a lot of misguided and misleading information from forum members. In fact, a lot of forum member's input is garbage, if not, they should be driving a Buick.

I decided to proceed with the solid differential and sub-frame install, mostly due to italyx.

Malek was awesome as usual and my car was done on time.

Driving experience. There is no freaking increase in NVH from the sub-frame bushings! None at all, Unless your eardrums are on steroids. It sounds and feels no different than the rubber bushings.

However, with the aluminum/delrin turner motorsport differential mounts, there is slightly more noise. There is a slight whine that increases with speed, but it sounds awesome and the sound seems to taper off once you get past 80mph. The noise is faint enough that it gets drowned out by rolling the windows down or playing music.I personally, love the noise, it sounds like a racecar - yet faint.

Performance wise. I noticed that my car no longer breaks loose at the top of 2nd and 3rd where it used to like clockwork. There is much more traction from reduced wheel hop. The car is more direct and feels more agile. It feels much closer to my Cayman s (which I use as my benchmark). It makes the car's chassis feel like a solid block of metal at which even input translates directly to an output.

I would say this is one of the best mods that increase performance by far.
Good stuff, Biggy. How long was the labor on the subframe bushings? Thinking of getting this done.
Hujan is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-18-2013, 05:34 AM   #3
leigh
Major
 
leigh's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 e92 zcp m3
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: melbourne

Posts: 1,037
iTrader: (0)

I can't wait till I get mine!
leigh is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-18-2013, 09:56 AM   #4
Wendall
***Major MammelToe
 
Wendall's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3 SG coupe
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Orange County, CA

Posts: 1,146
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hujan View Post
Good stuff, Biggy. How long was the labor on the subframe bushings? Thinking of getting this done.
Labor is a full day I would say around 12hrs (corrected). Its a lot of work but its gotta be one of the best suspension mods. Not many people are willing to pay this because they are looking for purely aesthetic changes. However, if you are pursuing performance this is upgrade is a must.

MRFs machined billet aluminum bushings are beautiful too bad you cannot see them.
__________________
E92 M3 SG DCT - AA Filter, Verstraβe Paddles, ECS SS, MH race stud, Stoptech BBK, MR Exhaust,RE Pulley, BPM Tune,Euro bumper and GTS lip, Euro MDM & DCT, KW CS, Recaro PP, TMS Soild Diff Mounts, MRF solid subframe mounts, GTS aero, RPM track built motor.


Last edited by Wendall; 12-18-2013 at 12:56 PM.
Wendall is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-18-2013, 12:28 PM   #5
W///
Brigadier General
 
W///'s Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 E92 M3/1999 E36 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SC

Posts: 4,281
iTrader: (11)

Thanks for the review. Added to my to do list for the future.
__________________
2008 E92 M3: Sparkling Graphite | Bamboo Beige | 6MT | CF Roof | HRE | Eisenmann | BPM Sport | Swift | Arkym | Mode Carbon | M.Perf
W/// is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-18-2013, 12:40 PM   #6
Malek@MRF
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Malek@MRF's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Irvine, California

Posts: 3,325
iTrader: (5)

Send a message via AIM to Malek@MRF
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hujan View Post
Good stuff, Biggy. How long was the labor on the subframe bushings? Thinking of getting this done.

Ben,

Labor is approximately 12 hours when it's all said and done as there are a lot of steps to ensure the job is done correctly.

As biggynuts01 said, this modification is mandatory in my eyes. It is the reason why the modern M's are switching over to this design, although I do feel they are 10 years too late to the party and should have implemented this type of design theory when the cars began to increase in power astronomically to prevent all the sub-frame issues they had in the past.

NVH increase is non-existent with the change of the sub-frame bushings themselves and extremely minimal change in noise from doing the differential bushings in conjunction. For most of the street car and occasional weekend racer vehicles, I opt to use the Turner Delrin differential bushings along with the MRF sub-frame bushings. For cars that are more dedicated to track usage, I have developed solid differential bushings as well.

For those wondering, the MRF Engineering Motorsport sub-frame bushings are fully designed and engineered in-house at MRF and CNC'd right here in Southern California.
__________________

BMW PERFORMANCE SPECIALISTS. Suspension. Forced Induction. Brakes. Race Preparation. Service. Alignments.
OFFICIAL PARTNERS: Íhlins. KW Suspension. Brembo. AP Racing. ESS Tuning. iND Distribution. Turner Motorsport.

Facebook | Instagram | Yelp! | Flikr | Contact | YouTube
Malek@MRF is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-18-2013, 12:54 PM   #7
Pertplus
Banned
 
Drives: 2013 M3 & M5
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: San Diego, California

Posts: 2,145
iTrader: (7)

Garage List
2013 BMW E92 M3  [5.00]
2013 BMW F10 M5  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by biggynuts01 View Post
Labor is a full day I would say around 8-10hrs. Its a lot of work but its gotta be one of the best suspension mods. Not many people are willing to pay this because they are looking for purely aesthetic changes. However, if you are pursuing performance this is upgrade is a must.

MRFs machined billet aluminum bushings are beautiful too bad you cannot see them.
I second this!!!! I may not track my car, but when I get on it...the car feels stabilized and fully capable of distributing the power to where it needs to go.
Pertplus is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-18-2013, 02:29 PM   #8
Hujan
Major
 
Drives: 2013 E92 M3; 2010 Z4 35i
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: San Diego, CA

Posts: 1,344
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malek@MRF View Post
Ben,

Labor is approximately 12 hours when it's all said and done as there are a lot of steps to ensure the job is done correctly.

As biggynuts01 said, this modification is mandatory in my eyes. It is the reason why the modern M's are switching over to this design, although I do feel they are 10 years too late to the party and should have implemented this type of design theory when the cars began to increase in power astronomically to prevent all the sub-frame issues they had in the past.

NVH increase is non-existent with the change of the sub-frame bushings themselves and extremely minimal change in noise from doing the differential bushings in conjunction. For most of the street car and occasional weekend racer vehicles, I opt to use the Turner Delrin differential bushings along with the MRF sub-frame bushings. For cars that are more dedicated to track usage, I have developed solid differential bushings as well.

For those wondering, the MRF Engineering Motorsport sub-frame bushings are fully designed and engineered in-house at MRF and CNC'd right here in Southern California.
Thanks, Malek. It's definitely on the to-do list for sure.

I was mostly wondering whether there was sufficient overlap with the brake work and exhaust install we are going to do that we could knock it all out at the same time? I'll be in touch.
Hujan is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-18-2013, 02:54 PM   #9
W///
Brigadier General
 
W///'s Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 E92 M3/1999 E36 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: SC

Posts: 4,281
iTrader: (11)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hujan View Post
Thanks, Malek. It's definitely on the to-do list for sure.

I was mostly wondering whether there was sufficient overlap with the brake work and exhaust install we are going to do that we could knock it all out at the same time? I'll be in touch.
This is gonna cost a pretty penny

But yea, I'd plan to do at same time too. I'm going to do SS brake lines while everything is off too but this is in a while. Keeping a close eye on rod bearings since I'm at 76k miles.
__________________
2008 E92 M3: Sparkling Graphite | Bamboo Beige | 6MT | CF Roof | HRE | Eisenmann | BPM Sport | Swift | Arkym | Mode Carbon | M.Perf
W/// is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-18-2013, 03:55 PM   #10
flipm3
E46 + E90
 
Drives: E46 M3 + E90 M3
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Illinois

Posts: 2,768
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2009 BMW M3  [0.00]
2002 BMW M3  [0.00]
Very nice review!!

From a lot of the bushing manufacturers I've spoken with over the years, many of them echo your impressions. Most of the drastically added NVH always stems from differential mounts/bushings. Where as the subframe bushings transmit much less added NVH, if any.

Thanks for sharing.
__________________
E90 M3 DCT|Melbourne Red . Speed Cloth | My Build Thread
E46 M3 6MT|Jet Black . Black Nappa Leather | My Build Thread
flipm3 is offline   Philippines
0
Reply With Quote
      12-18-2013, 04:43 PM   #11
Longboarder
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2013 e92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Monarch Beach

Posts: 3,455
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2013 e92 M3  [4.93]
2011 997.2 Turbo S  [4.75]
2013 WRX STi  [4.00]
2013 BMW X5  [0.00]
Excellent review Steve. This is probably mandatory on an S/C at the track.

I'd be all over this if I wasn't venturing to another platform.
__________________
Daily: 2013 e92 M3 DCT / ESS VT2 650 S/C / Akrapovic Evolution / StopTech BBK
Track/Airstrip: 2011 997.2 Turbo S PDK / GIAC Stage 2 (9 second file) / Ohlins coils / R888's
Beater: 2013 X5 3.5sport
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT1...eoFBszPIK0gf9w
Longboarder is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-18-2013, 05:34 PM   #12
Wendall
***Major MammelToe
 
Wendall's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3 SG coupe
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Orange County, CA

Posts: 1,146
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Excellent review Steve. This is probably mandatory on an S/C at the track.

I'd be all over this if I wasn't venturing to another platform.
What's next?
__________________
E92 M3 SG DCT - AA Filter, Verstraβe Paddles, ECS SS, MH race stud, Stoptech BBK, MR Exhaust,RE Pulley, BPM Tune,Euro bumper and GTS lip, Euro MDM & DCT, KW CS, Recaro PP, TMS Soild Diff Mounts, MRF solid subframe mounts, GTS aero, RPM track built motor.

Wendall is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-19-2013, 03:15 AM   #13
esquire
Colonel
 
esquire's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011.5 Dakar Yellow M3 Coupe
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Orange County, California

Posts: 2,800
iTrader: (0)

Wouldn't have this done anywhere but MRF. Nice write up. I'll be getting them too
__________________

[ESS VT2-625] [Akrapovic Evolution Exhaust] [KW Clubsports] [OSS Angel Eyes] [Revinora r-CRT Lip]
[Vorsteiner Boot] [Challenge Race Diffuser] [See the Build Thread HERE]
esquire is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-19-2013, 10:52 AM   #14
leigh
Major
 
leigh's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 e92 zcp m3
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: melbourne

Posts: 1,037
iTrader: (0)

When I go WOT on my SC car I have to fight the back to keep it straight do you think these will fix it?
leigh is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-20-2013, 10:48 AM   #15
Malek@MRF
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
Malek@MRF's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Irvine, California

Posts: 3,325
iTrader: (5)

Send a message via AIM to Malek@MRF
Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh
When I go WOT on my SC car I have to fight the back to keep it straight do you think these will fix it?
Yes. A big point in doing this is to stabilize the rear end. The factory car was designed for 414hp and 295 tq. Deflection and transfer become a major problem as power levels increase, especially with forced induction.
__________________

BMW PERFORMANCE SPECIALISTS. Suspension. Forced Induction. Brakes. Race Preparation. Service. Alignments.
OFFICIAL PARTNERS: Íhlins. KW Suspension. Brembo. AP Racing. ESS Tuning. iND Distribution. Turner Motorsport.

Facebook | Instagram | Yelp! | Flikr | Contact | YouTube
Malek@MRF is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-20-2013, 10:58 AM   #16
lsmkr01
Lieutenant Colonel
 
lsmkr01's Avatar
 
Drives: 11 E92 M3
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Columbia, SC

Posts: 1,560
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Excellent review Steve. This is probably mandatory on an S/C at the track.

I'd be all over this if I wasn't venturing to another platform.
If you venture far enough to get rid of your M sell me your midpipe (seriously) as Malek has gone MIA on this and i'm thinking it will not be made again.
lsmkr01 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-20-2013, 12:47 PM   #17
Longboarder
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2013 e92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Monarch Beach

Posts: 3,455
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2013 e92 M3  [4.93]
2011 997.2 Turbo S  [4.75]
2013 WRX STi  [4.00]
2013 BMW X5  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by lsmkr01 View Post
If you venture far enough to get rid of your M sell me your midpipe (seriously) as Malek has gone MIA on this and i'm thinking it will not be made again.
My M3 lease is not up until Aug 2015...so I will have it until then. Maybe I'll buy out the M3 unless there is another car would be a better DD. There's a couple people with the MRF X and I've seen it posted for sale before on the forum.
__________________
Daily: 2013 e92 M3 DCT / ESS VT2 650 S/C / Akrapovic Evolution / StopTech BBK
Track/Airstrip: 2011 997.2 Turbo S PDK / GIAC Stage 2 (9 second file) / Ohlins coils / R888's
Beater: 2013 X5 3.5sport
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT1...eoFBszPIK0gf9w
Longboarder is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-20-2013, 01:51 PM   #18
KEYON
Brigadier General
 
KEYON's Avatar
 
Drives: '14 RS5
Join Date: May 2008
Location: LA x SD

Posts: 3,416
iTrader: (6)

Garage List
2011 E92 M3  [4.83]
Great review! If I keep my M3 I'll be doing this one day.

Last edited by KEYON; 02-17-2014 at 04:02 PM.
KEYON is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-21-2013, 09:06 AM   #19
Beedub
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2007 Z4 M roadster vt2-500
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: UK

Posts: 3,756
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malek@MRF View Post
Ben,

Labor is approximately 12 hours when it's all said and done as there are a lot of steps to ensure the job is done correctly.

As biggynuts01 said, this modification is mandatory in my eyes. It is the reason why the modern M's are switching over to this design, although I do feel they are 10 years too late to the party and should have implemented this type of design theory when the cars began to increase in power astronomically to prevent all the sub-frame issues they had in the past.

NVH increase is non-existent with the change of the sub-frame bushings themselves and extremely minimal change in noise from doing the differential bushings in conjunction. For most of the street car and occasional weekend racer vehicles, I opt to use the Turner Delrin differential bushings along with the MRF sub-frame bushings. For cars that are more dedicated to track usage, I have developed solid differential bushings as well.

For those wondering, the MRF Engineering Motorsport sub-frame bushings are fully designed and engineered in-house at MRF and CNC'd right here in Southern California.
MRF do you have any that are suitable for the z4m??
__________________
Pristine Bi-colour Ti /Bsm...z4m roadster Ess vt2-500....Perfection on wheels.
Beedub is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      12-28-2013, 01:25 PM   #20
SlowSaloonM3
Major General
 
SlowSaloonM3's Avatar
 
Drives: m3 saloon in granny mode.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: lost angeles

Posts: 6,570
iTrader: (0)

So whats the price on this? Any difference if going solid diff mounts?

Biggy your car is all of a sudden more than track ready lol. When you going out next time?
__________________

When is this episode coming?!
My thoughts on M5/6 vs M3/4...i wonder if tuned panamera turbo S owners are laughing at gt3 owners because they have "no chance in a race"
SlowSaloonM3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-29-2013, 09:02 PM   #21
Wendall
***Major MammelToe
 
Wendall's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3 SG coupe
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Orange County, CA

Posts: 1,146
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
So whats the price on this? Any difference if going solid diff mounts?

Biggy your car is all of a sudden more than track ready lol. When you going out next time?
Pkim, this is a sick ass mod. I definitely recommend it, both subframe and diff bushings.

Its the most noticeable suspension upgrade that I have done. Well i mean it the best upgrade after getting a decent coilover.
__________________
E92 M3 SG DCT - AA Filter, Verstraβe Paddles, ECS SS, MH race stud, Stoptech BBK, MR Exhaust,RE Pulley, BPM Tune,Euro bumper and GTS lip, Euro MDM & DCT, KW CS, Recaro PP, TMS Soild Diff Mounts, MRF solid subframe mounts, GTS aero, RPM track built motor.

Wendall is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      01-03-2014, 08:21 AM   #22
Ant Man
Major
 
Drives: E92 M3 Jerez black / Fox red
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: East Anglia

Posts: 1,032
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by biggynuts01 View Post
Pkim, this is a sick ass mod. I definitely recommend it, both subframe and diff bushings.

Its the most noticeable suspension upgrade that I have done. Well i mean it the best upgrade after getting a decent coilover.

How many hours labour to install both subframe and diff bushings pls?

I'd really like to have a better feel for the diff whine before going ahead with any changes. Would you be able to post a video so that it can be heard? I.e what you hear from the driver's seat. Is it akin to straighcut racing gearboxes but quieter?
Ant Man is offline   England
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:59 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST