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      10-22-2007, 09:27 PM   #1
danielbreese
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For those of us who dont want ZTP, please help!

It seems that I am not the only one who isnt getting this package.

I dont want i Drive. I dont want Nav. I dont want EDC (I think). I dont want CA..... BUT I want M Drive, and I know I cant get it without the ZTP option.

Correct me if I am wrong, but in order to get all the M Drive stuff, I will have to pay about $4200. And after paying all this money, all I will likely do is set all the controls to the most extreme and NEVER touch it again. This makes me mad to pay all the money for this!

If I dont get ZTP or EDC, it is my understanding that the only things I can control are the Throttle mapping, and DSC, and even with these there are fewer choices versus having ZTP. Correct? This is no different than my E46 M3.

So...What is critical to me (and others) is: Are the dampers AND steering set at to the firmest in the non ZTP cars. Also will I miss the Sport plus on the throttle ( I always use the sport button) and the M Dynamic mode (I dont track the car)

Or... will I be forced the pay for the ZTP--AAAArgh!

Thank you so much!

Dan
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      10-22-2007, 09:34 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielbreese View Post
It seems that I am not the only one who isnt getting this package.

I dont want i Drive. I dont want Nav. I dont want EDC (I think). I dont want CA..... BUT I want M Drive, and I know I cant get it without the ZTP option.

Correct me if I am wrong, but in order to get all the M Drive stuff, I will have to pay about $4200. And after paying all this money, all I will likely do is set all the controls to the most extreme and NEVER touch it again. This makes me mad to pay all the money for this!

If I dont get ZTP or EDC, it is my understanding that the only things I can control are the Throttle mapping, and DSC, and even with these there are fewer choices versus having ZTP. Correct? This is no different than my E46 M3.

So...What is critical to me (and others) is: Are the dampers AND steering set at to the firmest in the non ZTP cars. Also will I miss the Sport plus on the throttle ( I always use the sport button) and the M Dynamic mode (I dont track the car)

Or... will I be forced the pay for the ZTP--AAAArgh!

Dan
I understand your frustration, but BMW chose to use the iDrive system to have full access to all of the options. So, the only thing nonessential in the package is Comfort Access, about a $500 item (I think theis should have been part of the Premium Package, because it has nothing to do with performance). Your other choice is to take it without MDrive, and upgrade the suspension, if necessary, to you liking. The steering is already much faster than the E46; the extra MDrive control just allows you to change the assist curve. And you still get two throttle settings, including Sport.
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Last edited by GregW / Oregon; 10-23-2007 at 09:58 AM.
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      10-22-2007, 10:36 PM   #3
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Yes, there are several people here who share your frustration. My hope is that, as member mkoesel has mentioned elsewhere, there will be some kind of aftermarket software upgrade that will enable the "locked" functionality. This reminds me of playing computer games in HS. What a joke BMW!

That said, I doubt that the locked MDrive functions will take too much away from the driving experience.
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      10-23-2007, 12:45 AM   #4
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Get over it, BMW is not FORCING you to do anything. If you want the M3 thats how it comes, take it or leave it.
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      10-23-2007, 01:31 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvwirelessguy View Post
Get over it, BMW is not FORCING you to do anything. If you want the M3 thats how it comes, take it or leave it.
Agree, some people need to learn to accept change. iDrive is the perfect option to configure all the options. They used it because it simply made sense.
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      10-23-2007, 01:54 AM   #6
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But

Quote:
Originally Posted by enigma View Post
Agree, some people need to learn to accept change. iDrive is the perfect option to configure all the options. They used it because it simply made sense.
I like iDrive and want it - but clearly you have seen the option packages and the things not available without getting M Drive? They don't make a lot of sense. Sure you can configure CA with iDrive (whereas otherwise full configuration may only be available at a dealer through some service only hardware/interface) but should you really require EDC and Navi to get CA? Also, why should you be able to have EDC separately and full control of all EDC modes with a simple button yet NOT have access to the steering settings and DSC = M Dynamic mode. Of course some (all but the best!) DSC settings are still available without iDrive. Ugh!

Just a random hodge-podge and BMW maximizing profits for options that a lot of folks do not want.

For example why pay thousands for Nav when PocketPC Nav systems are better than in dash systems? I really enjoy the same Nav interface when traveling and renting cars as when in my own car. What a waste I will be forced into...
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      10-23-2007, 06:43 AM   #7
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Just say 'no' to ZTP. Your dash will thank you for it.
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      10-23-2007, 07:06 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyB View Post
Just say 'no' to ZTP. Your dash will thank you for it.
Does anyone have a picture of how that would look, please?

We don't have the option to remove iDrive/MDrive and SatNav here in the U.K. I really wish they had an alternative. I hate SatNavs anyway and the iDrive type of interface is something that will really date the car and hence cause it to age more rapidly.
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      10-23-2007, 08:08 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvwirelessguy View Post
Get over it, BMW is not FORCING you to do anything. If you want the M3 thats how it comes, take it or leave it.
What are you talking about exactly? That's not how it comes in Germany. Why should it come that way in the US? Have you seen the German options list? Because of people like you who are willing to take anything BMW decides to push our way, the US market has become what it is, and we are forced to make choices that don't make sense. I guess it is not BMW's fault actually; US consumers do not seem to have the patience or whatever it takes to go through an options list and decide for themselves, or they have the tendency to puchase cars off the lot or something like that...
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      10-23-2007, 08:23 AM   #10
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My gripe is that Comfort Access is now a $6000 option as Technic pointed out in the other thread. This, even though its a seperate option on every other BMW. No way in hell I am paying that, so it looks like I will be going without CA. I will probably just stop using CA on my wifes car as well now. As it is, I find myself grabbing the handle of my M3 sometimes when I get in it after I've been driving her car. It will only be worse once we both have a blue E9x. I wish BMW would just let me order it seperately. Why BMW USA, why?
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      10-23-2007, 08:31 AM   #11
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Why is everyone complaining about this when we don't even know the real price yet? That's like griping over MSRP based solely on estimates...
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      10-23-2007, 08:46 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowmoo32 View Post
Why is everyone complaining about this when we don't even know the real price yet? That's like griping over MSRP based solely on estimates...
I don't need pricing to know that I dislike the look of the navigation hump, and that I will never ever use navigation in Boston.
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      10-23-2007, 09:06 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowmoo32 View Post
Why is everyone complaining about this when we don't even know the real price yet? That's like griping over MSRP based solely on estimates...
I think its safe to say the real price of ZTP + premium sound with be well north of the typical $500 Comfort Access price.
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      10-23-2007, 10:32 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielbreese View Post
It seems that I am not the only one who isnt getting this package.

I dont want i Drive. I dont want Nav. I dont want EDC (I think). I dont want CA..... BUT I want M Drive, and I know I cant get it without the ZTP option.

Correct me if I am wrong, but in order to get all the M Drive stuff, I will have to pay about $4200. And after paying all this money, all I will likely do is set all the controls to the most extreme and NEVER touch it again. This makes me mad to pay all the money for this!

If I dont get ZTP or EDC, it is my understanding that the only things I can control are the Throttle mapping, and DSC, and even with these there are fewer choices versus having ZTP. Correct? This is no different than my E46 M3.

So...What is critical to me (and others) is: Are the dampers AND steering set at to the firmest in the non ZTP cars. Also will I miss the Sport plus on the throttle ( I always use the sport button) and the M Dynamic mode (I dont track the car)

Or... will I be forced the pay for the ZTP--AAAArgh!

Thank you so much!

Dan

I am afraid that I can not answer your questions directly, but I can give you my experience from 1300 km in my Car. Please note that I am still running it in and besides a testdrive @ Nürburgring I have not yet tested the limits.

Besides steering ratio, the steering feels much lighter when not in sport mode. I hope for your sake that it is in "sports" mode because I never use it in Normal mode. I would gladly live with the nav just to get this option. Then again, I don't understand the dislike for the "NavHump".

When it comes to suspension my opinion on EDC is that I would order it again.
I find that I use Normal mode for most of my driving, comfort mode is nice to have when you need to crawl around on very bad roads, but is too soft for active driving.
Sport on the other hand is not always a good choice, unless you drive on good roads.

During the briefing at Nürburgring the M-representative mentioned that Sport and Normal was a bit misleading.
The thing is that when in Normal mode the EDC is actually very active and monitors the car all the time, when you turn hard the suspension will be firmer to counter the body roll you can feel when turning slowly. At the same time it also does a good job of swallowing the bumps in the road which again gives you better traction through turns.
This is also my experience from very twisty Norwegian back roads - which are not always in a good condition.
It is rumored that the M3's best time on Nürburgring was in Normal mode, I can actually believe that rumor based on my experience. I guess what I am saying is that firm is not always better, and that you should considder where you are driving before you opt for EDC or not. Sport is still preferable in better conditions.

Throttle response: Sport and Sport Plus. Which one you would prefer is very individual. Find a dealer car and play around with it. I think the steering feel is a much more important factor than sport plus.

DSC: M-Drive Mode.
Do you drive with DSC off? Then I guess M-Drive is not important.
If you like to drive actively - and want to keep the DSC on - go for M-Drive. It is much less intrusive than regular DSC and will allow you to loose traction in wet conditions.

Just my .02 kr.
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      10-23-2007, 11:07 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielbreese View Post
I dont want i Drive. I dont want Nav. I dont want EDC (I think). I dont want CA..... BUT I want M Drive, and I know I cant get it without the ZTP option.
But, is MDrive available anywhere in the world without IDrive? It seems to me that you would not be able to adjust all of the settings properly without it. I believe only the throttle, DSC and EDC have console buttons, right? Is there even a steering button on the console? Furthermore, I don't believe it is possible to use MDM mode or set "Sport Plus" throttle mapping via the console button either.

Actually, strictly speaking, I don't think all that stuff is even part of MDrive. I think MDrive is merely the ability to store and recall your settings via a single button. Thus, even without MDrive-proper, you'd still need IDrive if you want to access all of the car's features.

Quote:
So...What is critical to me (and others) is: Are the dampers AND steering set at to the firmest in the non ZTP cars. Also will I miss the Sport plus on the throttle ( I always use the sport button) and the M Dynamic mode (I dont track the car)
My impression is that the standard steering and suspension, as well as the sport throttle and DSC off functions will basically be identical to the E46 M3. In other words you will still have a very competent car. I would venture to guess that the differences in performance between this setup and an MDrive and EDC equipped car with suspension and steering set to "Sport", and even factoring in the throttle set to "Sport Plus", will be tiny.
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      10-23-2007, 11:08 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
I don't need pricing to know that I dislike the look of the navigation hump, and that I will never ever use navigation in Boston.
It's interesting to see how preferences change and vary. Personally, on my 06 330i, I don't have NAV because I didn't like the nav hump on the dash...but now, I think it completes the dash so that when my M3 arrives it will have the nav hump.
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      10-23-2007, 11:14 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carnuts3 View Post
It's interesting to see how preferences change and vary. Personally, on my 06 330i, I don't have NAV because I didn't like the nav hump on the dash...but now, I think it completes the dash so that when my M3 arrives it will have the nav hump.
Yeah, that's interesting and funny.
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      10-23-2007, 11:33 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ilron View Post
I am afraid that I can not answer your questions directly, but I can give you my experience from 1300 km in my Car. Please note that I am still running it in and besides a testdrive @ Nürburgring I have not yet tested the limits.

Besides steering ratio, the steering feels much lighter when not in sport mode. I hope for your sake that it is in "sports" mode because I never use it in Normal mode. I would gladly live with the nav just to get this option. Then again, I don't understand the dislike for the "NavHump".

When it comes to suspension my opinion on EDC is that I would order it again.
I find that I use Normal mode for most of my driving, comfort mode is nice to have when you need to crawl around on very bad roads, but is too soft for active driving.
Sport on the other hand is not always a good choice, unless you drive on good roads.

During the briefing at Nürburgring the M-representative mentioned that Sport and Normal was a bit misleading.
The thing is that when in Normal mode the EDC is actually very active and monitors the car all the time, when you turn hard the suspension will be firmer to counter the body roll you can feel when turning slowly. At the same time it also does a good job of swallowing the bumps in the road which again gives you better traction through turns.
This is also my experience from very twisty Norwegian back roads - which are not always in a good condition.
It is rumored that the M3's best time on Nürburgring was in Normal mode, I can actually believe that rumor based on my experience. I guess what I am saying is that firm is not always better, and that you should considder where you are driving before you opt for EDC or not. Sport is still preferable in better conditions.

Throttle response: Sport and Sport Plus. Which one you would prefer is very individual. Find a dealer car and play around with it. I think the steering feel is a much more important factor than sport plus.

DSC: M-Drive Mode.
Do you drive with DSC off? Then I guess M-Drive is not important.
If you like to drive actively - and want to keep the DSC on - go for M-Drive. It is much less intrusive than regular DSC and will allow you to loose traction in wet conditions.

Just my .02 kr.
Thanks for your insight.

I am still one of those who enthusiasts who will skip this package altogether. Chances are that I will opt for an aftermarket suspension anyway (...as I've done in the past). Also, the new ///M is bound to handle better than the E46 ///M, and I was satisfied w/ that car in stock form, so I see no reason why I wouldn't be satisfied w/ the incoming car minus EDC, etc. I will opt for Nav/IDrive though.
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      10-23-2007, 01:22 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan View Post
Thanks for your insight.

I am still one of those who enthusiasts who will skip this package altogether. Chances are that I will opt for an aftermarket suspension anyway (...as I've done in the past). Also, the new ///M is bound to handle better than the E46 ///M, and I was satisfied w/ that car in stock form, so I see no reason why I wouldn't be satisfied w/ the incoming car minus EDC, etc. I will opt for Nav/IDrive though.
I'm an enthusiast, but also a realist. For 2009 or 2010 MY the M3 will get more ponies by way of turbocharging or a V10 (if it fits). Second, BMW will see that they can't offer this car with such dismal colors inside and out, so more color schemes or individual option will be forthcoming. I will more than likely buy a "stripper". Just Jerez and 19's so I can have my driving fun and turn it in 12-18 months to a "purist" with minimal depreciation. I learned with my 06 that the more you option the car out the less you get back. They never should have dropped the Cinnamon interior, huge mistake. But supposedly they know the US market, so we will see. Some of my comments may seem harsh but just my opinion. I love the brand, the feel, the look, the drive, I love the car but hate the game lol...so I will get one in hopes that the smile I get on my face while driving it will only come off by way of orbital sander
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      10-23-2007, 01:51 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
What are you talking about exactly? That's not how it comes in Germany. Why should it come that way in the US? Have you seen the German options list? Because of people like you who are willing to take anything BMW decides to push our way, the US market has become what it is, and we are forced to make choices that don't make sense. I guess it is not BMW's fault actually; US consumers do not seem to have the patience or whatever it takes to go through an options list and decide for themselves, or they have the tendency to puchase cars off the lot or something like that...
Comparing how BMW does business in Germany vs. how they do business in The USA is like comparing apples & oranges

You guys pay ALOT more because you get a smaller percentage of the M3s that are produced, and that also affords you the right to personalize your car more to your liking than we can here. We dont have nearly as many options available to us in The USA, and we will never be able to take advantage of BMW Individual either
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      10-23-2007, 01:51 PM   #21
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I decided to contact BMW USA about this (Comfort Access). Here is what they had to say:

Quote:
Dear mkoesel:

Thank you for contacting BMW of North America, LLC regarding the new BMW M3. I was sorry to read of your disappointment with the information you recently obtained regarding the availability of Comfort Access.

We appreciate your taking the time to provide this feedback. Your comments are important in helping us evaluate the needs and expectations of BMW customers. Please note that we have not yet officially released an options list for the M3. I suggest staying in touch with us either through our network of authorized BMW centers, or our website, www.bmwusa.com, for product updates and releases.

If you have any further comments or questions, please respond to this e-mail or contact the Customer Relations and Services Department at 1-800-831-1117, Monday through Friday from 9:00 A.M. to 9:00 P.M., Eastern Standard Time. Again, thank you for contacting BMW.

Sincerely,

Darlene Hawley
Customer Relations and Services
Representative




-----Original Message-----

Sent: 10/23/2007 12:00:00 AM
To: <ProductQuestions@bmwusa.com>
Subject: Products and Services

10/22/2007 9:11:15 AM

Question:
To concerned parties at BMW USA,

Regarding the all new 2008 M3 coming next spring, I am very interested in purchasing this car. It looks like another brilliant effort from the BMW M Division.

However, I have seen the options list that was released on DCSnet last week and I am extremely dismayed that Comfort Access is only listed as part of the the Technology Package (ZTP). Does BMW USA really have no plans to offer Comfort Access as a stand alone option on the new M3? I know that this option is offered as a stand alone option on virtually every other BMW model available in the US, including the M5.
Please, I implore you to reconsider the decision to include Comfort Access only as part of the ZTP for the new M3. I love Comfort Access on my wife's 335i, but I will be disappointed if electing this option also requires Navigation, MDrive, and EDC which I do not wish to equip my M3 with.

Thank you for you time,

mkoesel
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      10-23-2007, 02:07 PM   #22
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