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      12-12-2013, 06:09 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy335 View Post
Every generation of M3 has upped the performance game from the previous gen, been ahead of its peers, and been an aspirational car for millions who can't afford one. There is no doubt this one will repeat the recipe.

The F8x will be faster and more accessible in every dimension. It is naive to think BMW will have invested billions in it to not raise the bar again. And personally I think it will not just be incrementally quicker but crushingly so - straight line, track, canyon road etc.

Whether it pushes the buttons of each individual is a whole different matter, which is why there are plenty of people electing to drive and enjoy 4 cylinder E30's, inline-6 E36's, E46's and V8 E9x's. And it doesn't really matter which one you like, they are all great cars, all part of the M3 story.
Ditto!
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      12-12-2013, 06:26 PM   #46
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Answer to OP's question: IMHO, in a word "No"; at least at this point.

ymmv with a different set of priorities.

For an M3 (or now M4), who wouldn't want one from the model years that are thoroughly debugged? Some might think holding out for a ZCP edition or, if offered, a special edition, or if offered even a model year that included increased bhp, torque or both. All of that sounds good to me.

Being one that's very leary of turdbros, I'll sit out for a while before asking myself the question "Should I get one of these?"

Also a factor... does the car move me or is it merely a faster M model?

I truly hope BMW and ///M Division have this one right because it would be fantastic for them to hit a home run right out of the gate in the turdbro era of BMW cars. Maybe the next gen, with even more technical evolution, will be in a position to offer an FI V8. That would certainly make me rethink everything about waiting around for a latter model year.
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      12-12-2013, 06:29 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eau Rouge View Post
Answer to OP's question: IMHO, in a word "No"; at least at this point.

ymmv with a different set of priorities.

For an M3 (or now M4), who wouldn't want one from the model years that are thoroughly debugged? Some might think holding out for a ZCP edition or, if offered, a special edition, or if offered even a model year that included increased bhp, torque or both. All of that sounds good to me.

Being one that's very leery of turdbros, I'll sit out for a while before asking myself the question "Should I get one of these?"

Also a factor... does the car move me or is it merely a faster M model?

I truly hope BMW and ///M Division have this one right because it would be fantastic for them to hit a home run right out of the gate in the turdbro era of BMW cars. Maybe the next gen, with even more technical evolution, will be in a position to offer an FI V8. That would certainly make me rethink everything about waiting around for a latter model year.
It will be "turdbros" moving your favorite F1 driver through Eau Rouge at SPA starting next year too so.....may have to get onboard the FI wagon.
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      12-12-2013, 06:51 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spr View Post
Where do you have that suspension and chassis info?
The info is in quite a few different places. Autoblog is the last place I read the specs. No surprises that the new M3/4 went with solid subframe mounting points since the new M5/6 also have solid mounting points.
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      12-12-2013, 06:53 PM   #49
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I hear you on the solid subframe mounts. I'm just interested in the other suspension tidbits. Never heard about the other stuff mentioned. Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEllis View Post
The info is in quite a few different places. Autoblog is the last place I read the specs. No surprises that the new M3/4 went with solid subframe mounting points since the new M5/6 also have solid mounting points.
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      12-12-2013, 06:54 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward View Post
It will be "turdbros" moving your favorite F1 driver through Eau Rouge at SPA starting next year too so.....may have to get onboard the FI wagon.
I've nothing against turdbros that are reliable on a par with NA engines and have had the lag -- press pedal then wait -- somehow tricked out of them.

Oh yeah, those F1 engines will be screamers. Sorta.
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      12-12-2013, 07:57 PM   #51
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Meh, if a fully optioned one approaches $90k I would rather spend more on a used R8 V10.
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      12-12-2013, 08:07 PM   #52
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I think when people get behind the wheel of an F8X M they see and feel a noticable Difference in performance and refinement from the E9X M.
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      12-12-2013, 08:09 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spr View Post
I hear you on the solid subframe mounts. I'm just interested in the other suspension tidbits. Never heard about the other stuff mentioned. Thanks.

Its in the BMW press release.

http://www.bmwusa.com/standard/conte...VCVDetailId=49

Here is an excerpt,

Here again, low weight and a high level of rigidity for the axle systems are essential ingredients in ensuring the cars provide an ultra-dynamic driving experience. In the double-joint spring strut front axle alone, the use of a lightweight aluminum construction for components such as control arms, wheel carriers and axle subframes saves five kilograms over a conventional steel design. Play-free ball joints and elastomeric bearings developed specially for the BMW M3 Sedan and BMW M4 Coupe ensure an optimum and direct transfer of forces both laterally and longitudinally. An aluminum stiffening plate, CFRP front strut brace and additional bolted joints between the axle subframe and the body structure all help to increase the rigidity of the front end.
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      12-12-2013, 08:13 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nautik View Post
What I mean was the e92 was quite leap over what the e46 offered in terms of capability. The f80 over the e92? Does not seem to be nearly on that level (on paper at least, now that the official BMW numbers are out).
worth trading a e92? maybe not. worth it standalone? probably.
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      12-12-2013, 08:19 PM   #55
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I am keeping my supercharged e92 m3. I don't see much improvement in the performance for the new m3 m4.
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      12-12-2013, 08:25 PM   #56
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I've owned many turbo charged cars and although they are a blast to drive and make great power, the reason I went with my e92 was because of the overall experience of it. There aren't really many cars in production like it. Can't really say the same for the twin turbo six platform tho. Seems as if everyone is going that route. I am quite skeptical that grabbing the steering wheel of an m4 will feel as overwhelming as my e92 did when I drove it for the first time. Oh and I hate the steering wheel on the new f80
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      12-12-2013, 08:28 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grantmax View Post
This.

If I want a twin-turbo boy racer car, I'm getting an R35.
Agreed R35 is a beast and the NISMO is going to be pretty damn awesome.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rjd598 View Post
it's funny how that works right? just natural i suppose. at the beginning of one generation people will be skeptical and not accept the new model, but at the end of that same model you will hear people praising it and being sad that it's gone.

the one example that i never understood was the e60 m5. i've read more complaints and bad reviews than good ones for that car, but as soon as everyone heard the f10 m5 had a ttv8, all you could hear was, "long live the v10". lol how does that make any sense? if you liked the e60 and then said long live the v10 then good for you, but i guarantee you there are people who hated the e60 along the way, but were sad since there was no more na engine for the m5/m6.
The E60 M5 won all the comparison's I read in the major rags, while the F10 M5 is in LAST PLACE in all the comparo's I've read.
All this talk about the new car is interesting, but the bottom line is, if they haven't fixed the electric steering, it's doomed in all the comparo's it'll be put in. The F10 M5 is readily available on lots now and I think the poor comparo's in the magazines has a lot to do with it. The whole F10 line is overflowing on the lots in Cali, and it's all because of the electric steering.

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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      12-12-2013, 08:41 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward View Post
It will be "turdbros" moving your favorite F1 driver through Eau Rouge at SPA starting next year too so.....may have to get onboard the FI wagon.
In a 6 cylinder no less
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      12-12-2013, 08:46 PM   #59
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Isn't the e9x 9 years old already? I wonder if it will feel outdated compared to the new M3/M4
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      12-12-2013, 08:46 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
The whole F10 line is overflowing on the lots in Cali, and it's all because of the electric steering.

.
It may be a little more complex an equation than that. I am not so sure that your average business tycoon M5 customer really cares that much about the steering feel.
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      12-12-2013, 08:51 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisK View Post
You are making some bold claims. I'll wait and see.

The jump from e46->e92 is not comparable to e92->f80

e46->e92 was a huge leap. e92->f80 is a tweak of perfection.

The e92 M3 is one heck of a benchmark.

Personally, I think I my next car will be a 991S
This. 991 is still the benchmark and you can clearly see outperforms its paper stats by a lot.

I wanted to do a 991S next but having a baby soon ant be able to.

The M3 is a nice improvement in a lot of ways over our e9x m3s, but how it all comes together with the turbos that seem maxed from the factory (18.1 psi) with the same bore, stroke, and displacement as the 335 n54 and the EPS (bmw has failed at this badly) and the other new things coming are yet to be seen. It certainly won't be a 991S but may keep up in a straight, but thats about it.
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      12-12-2013, 08:59 PM   #62
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Well it sounds great but that sticker price is going to be stupid due to the silly premium on top of that, like the stingray. Maybe in 2 years when the price is down and you can buy the same car that someone bought used for 50% off.

Last edited by Darkone; 12-12-2013 at 09:05 PM.
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      12-12-2013, 09:22 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paddy335 View Post
It may be a little more complex an equation than that. I am not so sure that your average business tycoon M5 customer really cares that much about the steering feel.
True, but they TOTALLY CARE about what the major mags have to say and which car wins the comparos. There's no denying that.

.
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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      12-12-2013, 09:24 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
True, but they TOTALLY CARE about what the major mags have to say and which car wins the comparos. There's no denying that.

.
Yep there's no denying that connection
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      12-12-2013, 09:33 PM   #65
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Yeah, for me I LOVE the looks of the new M3! However on a pure performance and likely driving experience basis, not likely enough for me to swap. I already have a lightweight exhaust and MT, so the weight difference isn't likely to be staggering at the same option level. While the electric steering will be an improvement over other BMWs, will be hard pressed to believe it will feel better than hydraulic. And I'm producing the same power in terms of inexpensive bolt ons that is repeatable and can take a beating on the track. In terms in terms of overall feel and high strung v8, instant throttle response, and short gearing with the feel of engine braking, think the E9x version will be better in those aspects. But have to hand it to BMW for bucking the trend of their recent cars and delivering something that appears to be so much more exciting. This is especially true given the banality of the new F30 3 series. We'll see when the inevitable comparisons come out, and I think there will be a lot more of them vs when the E9x M3 came out (vs E46).
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      12-12-2013, 10:08 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eau Rouge View Post
Answer to OP's question: IMHO, in a word "No"; at least at this point.

ymmv with a different set of priorities.

For an M3 (or now M4), who wouldn't want one from the model years that are thoroughly debugged? Some might think holding out for a ZCP edition or, if offered, a special edition, or if offered even a model year that included increased bhp, torque or both. All of that sounds good to me.

Being one that's very leary of turdbros, I'll sit out for a while before asking myself the question "Should I get one of these?"

Also a factor... does the car move me or is it merely a faster M model?

I truly hope BMW and ///M Division have this one right because it would be fantastic for them to hit a home run right out of the gate in the turdbro era of BMW cars. Maybe the next gen, with even more technical evolution, will be in a position to offer an FI V8. That would certainly make me rethink everything about waiting around for a latter model year.
The turbo used in the new m3/4 are Mitsubishi turbochargers which are very reliable.

I think this new model well be much faster than the e9x. For one look at the new m5 and 1m they are underrated from the factor so I expect the same with the new m3/4. Also look at the area under the curve. This should be a blast to drive. I like everything about the new m3/4 except a few things. Yes the v8 well sound better, but I don't like tail lights on both m3/4, the rear reflectors on the rear bumper, and the rims. That's just me just nit picking. Other than that the new m3/4 well out perform the e9x in every category.

Also since the new m3/4 being turbocharged you we'll see more tuning companies from other platforms coming over to BMW. Which should be interesting. I would love to see a company like AMS get a new M and see what they can do with it. I could see a full bolt on m3/4 destroying a full bolt on e9x m3 in a straight line. Even in stock form just by looking at the graph.

Last edited by Eazy-E90; 12-12-2013 at 10:13 PM.
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