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      12-12-2013, 03:34 PM   #23
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"There's no replacement for displacement."

I have an catless e92 w/ carbon roof so my power to weight ratio is practically tied with f80. I have four piston bbk in the front so it's a draw there too.

The f80 interior is definitely better and it has some interesting aero features that will likely be a big improvement with front end grip/feel at speed. It will also be very interesting to see what kind of power they will lay down catless with a tune and maybe some more psi. It won't be hard or expensive to get these things into the 500 HP neighborhood. Curious as to what reliability will look like stock and tuned.

I'll be watching closely on the forum and at the track. Time will tell, it's definitely too early to pass judgment.
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      12-12-2013, 03:34 PM   #24
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how is it not better on paper? seriously? this thread is just going to create a bunch of haters who will bitch about price, sound, and the other genius ones so far like getting into a porsche or now calling the m3 a "boy race car" lol jeez people. this will dominate and it is definitely better than the outgoing m3 and it isn't just a tweak. just wait for the lap times to come out. if you don't like it based on preferential reasons that's fine, but don't make excuses. just go ahead with your new car and may you enjoy it in good health
+1. I like how we all start bashing the new design just to feel better about our current model I saw similar threads in the E46 forum when the E9X was announced. Now most of them including me have embraced the E9X and I love it

In time, the next M3 will grow on me as well and I see myself getting into one in a few years.
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      12-12-2013, 03:34 PM   #25
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You keep the E9x M3 for the V8 sweetness. In every other category the F8x M3 will be better. The E9x will be a classic and be more car than any normal person would ever need/use so no need to feel bad that it is not the latest tech.

Chopping half a second off of a 0-60 already in the 4s is a big time speed increase. It really is astonishing the supercar speeds that non-exotics are achieving these days...
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      12-12-2013, 03:34 PM   #26
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You are making some bold claims. I'll wait and see.

The jump from e46->e92 is not comparable to e92->f80

e46->e92 was a huge leap. e92->f80 is a tweak of perfection.

The e92 M3 is one heck of a benchmark.

Personally, I think I my next car will be a 991S
first off, the 991s is freaking awesome. I love it. its also way more expensive.

we will see. if you looked at the comparison power graph between the e9x and the f80 m3, you will see just how much more average power the f80 makes no matter what part of the RPM band you look at.

I stand by my claims. This car will blow away the e9x performance numbers.

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Originally Posted by rjd598 View Post
how is it not better on paper? seriously? this thread is just going to create a bunch of haters who will bitch about price, sound, and the other genius ones so far like getting into a porsche or now calling the m3 a "boy race car" lol jeez people. this will dominate and it is definitely better than the outgoing m3 and it isn't just a tweak. just wait for the lap times to come out. if you don't like it based on preferential reasons that's fine, but don't make excuses. just go ahead with your new car and may you enjoy it in good health
this guy knows whats up.
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      12-12-2013, 03:38 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by grantmax View Post
This.

If I want a twin-turbo boy racer car, I'm getting an R35.
exactly what im going to do....keep my M3 as a DD/track car
and get a quarter mile car (R35)....not soon enough though
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      12-12-2013, 04:04 PM   #28
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+1. I like how we all start bashing the new design just to feel better about our current model I saw similar threads in the E46 forum when the E9X was announced. Now most of them including me have embraced the E9X and I love it

In time, the next M3 will grow on me as well and I see myself getting into one in a few years.
it's funny how that works right? just natural i suppose. at the beginning of one generation people will be skeptical and not accept the new model, but at the end of that same model you will hear people praising it and being sad that it's gone.

the one example that i never understood was the e60 m5. i've read more complaints and bad reviews than good ones for that car, but as soon as everyone heard the f10 m5 had a ttv8, all you could hear was, "long live the v10". lol how does that make any sense? if you liked the e60 and then said long live the v10 then good for you, but i guarantee you there are people who hated the e60 along the way, but were sad since there was no more na engine for the m5/m6.
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      12-12-2013, 04:05 PM   #29
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Dear E9X M3 community, please stop the hate. Our cars will soon be owned by F8X on the street, track, everywhere. Please stop lying to yourself that it's not a big step from E9X or that E9X looks better or other bunch of crap.
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      12-12-2013, 04:14 PM   #30
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how is it not better on paper? seriously? this thread is just going to create a bunch of haters who will bitch about price, sound, and the other genius ones so far like getting into a porsche or now calling the m3 a "boy race car" lol jeez people. this will dominate and it is definitely better than the outgoing m3 and it isn't just a tweak. just wait for the lap times to come out. if you don't like it based on preferential reasons that's fine, but don't make excuses. just go ahead with your new car and may you enjoy it in good health
After you put about 10 or 20 grand in it, if we have to. Overnight parts from Bavaria.

Out of all the responses herein, your "this version will be better than the last" is the most obvious and nonsensical. Everyone on this forum understands that the "new" M3/M4 will be better than the "old" M3.

The point isn't that this car will be better. The point is "how much better" and will the benefits outweigh the costs.
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      12-12-2013, 04:15 PM   #31
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Any one else feel the new M3 looks a bit souless.
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      12-12-2013, 04:27 PM   #32
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Is the next gen M3/4 really going up to $90K?
I really freaking hope not, ill stay with my e92 for a while. Eventually someone will trade their f80 in.
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      12-12-2013, 04:39 PM   #33
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Here's a question...

Will the new M3/M4 engine be so wound up that even with aftermarket tuning, your power will top off at 500-550 hp? The current gen M3 can get people into the 600's with a blower and it they seem to be relatively reliable. A lot is still to be seen, but it will be interesting to see how things play out.

I'd love to see a tuned M3/M4 versus a tuned E9X. True, tuning of the M3/M4 will be cheaper as you won't need to upgrade the brakes and engine tuning may only be ECU, downpipes, etc versus an expensive supercharger kit.

Thoughts?
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      12-12-2013, 04:40 PM   #34
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Every generation of M3 has upped the performance game from the previous gen, been ahead of its peers, and been an aspirational car for millions who can't afford one. There is no doubt this one will repeat the recipe.

The F8x will be faster and more accessible in every dimension. It is naive to think BMW will have invested billions in it to not raise the bar again. And personally I think it will not just be incrementally quicker but crushingly so - straight line, track, canyon road etc.

Whether it pushes the buttons of each individual is a whole different matter, which is why there are plenty of people electing to drive and enjoy 4 cylinder E30's, inline-6 E36's, E46's and V8 E9x's. And it doesn't really matter which one you like, they are all great cars, all part of the M3 story.
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      12-12-2013, 04:49 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by rjd598 View Post
how is it not better on paper? seriously? this thread is just going to create a bunch of haters who will bitch about price, sound, and the other genius ones so far like getting into a porsche or now calling the m3 a "boy race car" lol jeez people. this will dominate and it is definitely better than the outgoing m3 and it isn't just a tweak. just wait for the lap times to come out. if you don't like it based on preferential reasons that's fine, but don't make excuses. just go ahead with your new car and may you enjoy it in good health
I never said it's not better on paper. It is. The point is, by how much? Since BMW realized their official figures on paper the f80 does not appear to have that much over the e92 in my humble opinion. The e92 had quite a bit of over the e46. This does not sound like it will be to that degree.

I won't jump into the boy racer stuff but I would also argue, sound is pretty damned important. Would you buy a Ferrari if it sounded like a minivan? It's a huge part of the experience, which is a big part of what the M division is all about.
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      12-12-2013, 04:59 PM   #36
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The new M3/4 has made a full transition into a street bruiser. What I mean by that is the F8X M3/4 is a car that will feel extremely fast due to its flat torque curve. And, from stop light to stop light it will be legitimately faster or at least as fast as most other sports cars one could encounter.

In terms of a track car, time will tell. I imagine that the M4 chassis with lets say a GTS 4.4L S65 would have been a better track weapon. The BMW engineers certainly have not let us down in the suspension department. All solid bushings (or lack of bushings) and ball joints is a big change for the M3/4.

I will be interested to see if BMWs RLL teams will utilize the new M3/4s straight six or use a newer version of the P65? My guess is that, like the Nissan GTR, the top level race versions of the car will continue to be NA but I would love to be proved wrong.

I am very excited for the new M3/4. I plan on owning one in a few years. I think the chassis is a work of art. I am skeptical of how the new engine will perform on the track. Recent reports suggest that the BMW engineers took some extra cooling precautions.
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      12-12-2013, 05:10 PM   #37
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no matter what i am not a fan of the way its going to sound.

i actually like the e92 interior more also.

BMW lost my interest.
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      12-12-2013, 05:34 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grantmax View Post
After you put about 10 or 20 grand in it, if we have to. Overnight parts from Bavaria.

Out of all the responses herein, your "this version will be better than the last" is the most obvious and nonsensical. Everyone on this forum understands that the "new" M3/M4 will be better than the "old" M3.

The point isn't that this car will be better. The point is "how much better" and will the benefits outweigh the costs.
Point taken I just don't like how everyone has to find something to nit pick about. Then again that's why we are free to voice our opinions. You're right it's pretty obvious the new one will be better but the margin should be enough to justify it. It's just not the normal thought process I would have after seeing all the specs. I guess after a lap time a lot of people will have their minds made up
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      12-12-2013, 05:36 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nautik View Post
I never said it's not better on paper. It is. The point is, by how much? Since BMW realized their official figures on paper the f80 does not appear to have that much over the e92 in my humble opinion. The e92 had quite a bit of over the e46. This does not sound like it will be to that degree.

I won't jump into the boy racer stuff but I would also argue, sound is pretty damned important. Would you buy a Ferrari if it sounded like a minivan? It's a huge part of the experience, which is a big part of what the M division is all about.
We all have opinions and I respect yours. As far as sound goes I do agree with you that when you buy a Ferrari you don't want a minivan sound. As far as the m3 goes I like the sound and a lot of other people do too so it's all opinion. Some would say yes you are getting a good sports car and it sounds good
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      12-12-2013, 05:54 PM   #40
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You are making some bold claims. I'll wait and see.

The jump from e46->e92 is not comparable to e92->f80

e46->e92 was a huge leap. e92->f80 is a tweak of perfection.

The e92 M3 is one heck of a benchmark.

Personally, I think I my next car will be a 991S

Bingo. Same here man. This will probably be my last M3.
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      12-12-2013, 05:55 PM   #41
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This car is going to be fast and we will all eventually like the looks a lot and accept it as current and great.

In stock form it will likely be faster than the S65 engine in any measurable race, whether 1/4 mile or 0-60 or 0-100 or 50-120 etc.

It will handle better due to more modern suspension tech and lighter weight and better brakes all around.

It has better MPG and everything else will be more modernized and better period.

The single biggest drawback to me is sound. It's going to be a decent sound I'm sure, esp with the upshift pop and downshift burbles, but I'm over that. It won't sound as intimidating as the S65 due to displacement and cylinder count/firing order.

As far as tuning goes, an ECU tune along with catless DP's and exhaust and eventually methanol, this car will probably push over 520 hp or more. A limiting factor is how much boost this car peaks at in stock trim. How much additional pressure can the stock internals even take?

A properly force fed S65 I would think can always push more power than the new engine can even modded...It's again the displacement thing.


I personally hope I have the means to get into a different class of car by the time I am done with my M3.
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      12-12-2013, 05:56 PM   #42
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I doubt this as with bypass pipes, pullies, intake and tune e9x m3 has 500hp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sensi09 View Post
I'd expect the power numbers to be a bit underrated. Numbers aside though, from a roll on race I wouldn't be surprised to see a stock m4 leave even a full bolt on e9x in the dust.

For many the newness and excitement of a new m3/4 is reason enough to upgrade.

And for reviews they'll likely go along with the lines of "great car, but more insulated and not as 'raw' as the previous version."
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      12-12-2013, 05:59 PM   #43
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Overlay the M4 curve with a full bolt on m3 of intake, bypass pipes, tune and pullies to end the debate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
first off, the 991s is freaking awesome. I love it. its also way more expensive.

we will see. if you looked at the comparison power graph between the e9x and the f80 m3, you will see just how much more average power the f80 makes no matter what part of the RPM band you look at.

I stand by my claims. This car will blow away the e9x performance numbers.



this guy knows whats up.
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      12-12-2013, 06:04 PM   #44
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Where do you have that suspension and chassis info?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEllis View Post
The new M3/4 has made a full transition into a street bruiser. What I mean by that is the F8X M3/4 is a car that will feel extremely fast due to its flat torque curve. And, from stop light to stop light it will be legitimately faster or at least as fast as most other sports cars one could encounter.

In terms of a track car, time will tell. I imagine that the M4 chassis with lets say a GTS 4.4L S65 would have been a better track weapon. The BMW engineers certainly have not let us down in the suspension department. All solid bushings (or lack of bushings) and ball joints is a big change for the M3/4.

I will be interested to see if BMWs RLL teams will utilize the new M3/4s straight six or use a newer version of the P65? My guess is that, like the Nissan GTR, the top level race versions of the car will continue to be NA but I would love to be proved wrong.

I am very excited for the new M3/4. I plan on owning one in a few years. I think the chassis is a work of art. I am skeptical of how the new engine will perform on the track. Recent reports suggest that the BMW engineers took some extra cooling precautions.
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