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      12-12-2013, 02:32 PM   #1
Nautik
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F82 M4 offer enough benefit over the e92 M3 to justify jumping into it?

With the official BMW figures out on the next gen M3/4 does anyone else have questions regarding the what you get vs what you are paying for when you compare this to what the e92 M3 already offers?

Weight:
f80 - 3300
e92 - 3476

Horsepower:
f80 - 425
e92 - 414

Torque:
f80 - 406
e92 - 295

Transmission:
f80 - both DCT and manual offered
e92 - both DCT and manual offered

Brakes:
f80 - 4 piston / 2 piston compound brakes
f80 - 6 piston / 4 piston carbon ceramic (option)
e92 - single piston / single piston compound

Suspension:
Don't know much about it.


So sure, it's a little lighter. It has about the same horsepower. It has more torque which is great for daily driving but really HP is king, not torque. Otherwise the C63 AMG would beat the pants off the e92 M3. The transmission is more or less the same? Now the brakes certainly are a nice upgrade, especially the ceramic option. However, that can easily be swapped out on the e92.

Yes the 0-60 time looks a bit quicker but 0-60 really doesn't tell you much about how fast a powerful car is.

e92 - 4.4 sec (official BMW quote with DCT although C&D got a 3.9 out of it)
f80 - 3.9 (official BMW quote with DCT, probably several tenths faster in reality)

The e92 M3 was a pretty big bump over the e46 M3 (had both for a while). Not convinced that the f80 has much over the e92 in terms of performance especially if you put a few dollars into the e92 (bigger wheels/tires, few bolt-ons).

I guess we will just have to wait and see how fast the f80 is on a track, could be a complete monster like the Stingray turned out to be. On paper though, not seeing a big difference here. Not like the e46 vs the e92 anyway...

We won't even discuss the sound...
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      12-12-2013, 02:34 PM   #2
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I'd wait for the beta testers.
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      12-12-2013, 02:37 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nautik View Post
We won't even discuss the sound...
Why not?

I suspect the sound and engine configuration will leave a large number of e9x M3 owners struggling with the fact that the M3/M4 is essentially a chipped 335i.
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      12-12-2013, 02:41 PM   #4
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wait for the reviews, we don't know now...

i am sure overall, every new M is a bit better than the previous gen overall
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      12-12-2013, 02:45 PM   #5
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I have a feeling its top end times the E92 will close the gap. Where the F80 is gonna start falling off.
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      12-12-2013, 02:45 PM   #6
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IMHO, every M car is fantastic in its own right, so if you bought a e9x and want to upgrade just to have the latest incremental change, you should start leasing instead
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      12-12-2013, 02:55 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grantmax View Post
Why not?

I suspect the sound and engine configuration will leave a large number of e9x M3 owners struggling with the fact that the M3/M4 is essentially a chipped 335i.
What I mean is there really is no comparison. If the M3/M4 sounded like the 6-cyl. Jaguar F-type then maybe it would have been worth noting.
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      12-12-2013, 02:56 PM   #8
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You forgot price:

E92 M3 - 65-75k
F80 M4 - 90+?

The one advantage on the F80 is that it will be open to a whole world of bolt on upgrades Turbo cars make some serious power with minimal upgrades.
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      12-12-2013, 02:57 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quiksi View Post
IMHO, every M car is fantastic in its own right, so if you bought a e9x and want to upgrade just to have the latest incremental change, you should start leasing instead
What I mean was the e92 was quite leap over what the e46 offered in terms of capability. The f80 over the e92? Does not seem to be nearly on that level (on paper at least, now that the official BMW numbers are out).
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      12-12-2013, 02:57 PM   #10
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the new m3 will destroy the e9x in a straight line.

sure, at peak, both may make similar HP. but when you shift and drive, you use all of the top 3000 RPM give or take. the new M3 makes 430 HP from basically 5500 RPM to redline at 7400 RPM. The net result is that the new m3 makes a TON more power under the curve, and overall has a much higher average HP rating at all RPM than the outgoing e9x.

compare this with being lighter, and the e9x m3 is going to get smoked in a straight line.

the new m3 also has more robust brakes, lighter weight, a new generation of suspension and materials technology (always makes a difference, see each gen of the m3 since its inception) and a much more powerful engine.

its also much nicer in the interior and comes with more standard features, albeit at a likely higher price.

it will crush the outgoing m3 in all those metrics IMO. people who are focusing on peak HP numbers are missing out.

EDIT : and also, can we get past saying the new engine is an n55 with a chip?

it has

-new internals
-massively redone and reworked cooling system (liquid to air system with multiple heat exchangers and radiators)
-new, completely different turbos
-new tuning tech that allows the turbos to remain spooled even when off throttle
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      12-12-2013, 03:00 PM   #11
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I'd expect the power numbers to be a bit underrated. Numbers aside though, from a roll on race I wouldn't be surprised to see a stock m4 leave even a full bolt on e9x in the dust.

For many the newness and excitement of a new m3/4 is reason enough to upgrade.

And for reviews they'll likely go along with the lines of "great car, but more insulated and not as 'raw' as the previous version."
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      12-12-2013, 03:01 PM   #12
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New...shiny...I want. Will be nice to not have the CGA graphics of my 08 navi too...if I could afford it...e90 = dedicated track car! =) Then just get the new m4/m3 for daily/weekender
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      12-12-2013, 03:04 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsm918 View Post
You forgot price:

E92 M3 - 65-75k
F80 M4 - 90+?

The one advantage on the F80 is that it will be open to a whole world of bolt on upgrades Turbo cars make some serious power with minimal upgrades.
Oh yea no doubt about it. I suspect most people aren't going want to void that warranty right away though ;p
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      12-12-2013, 03:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
the new m3 will destroy the e9x in a straight line.

sure, at peak, both may make similar HP. but when you shift and drive, you use all of the top 3000 RPM give or take. the new M3 makes 430 HP from basically 5500 RPM to redline at 7400 RPM. The net result is that the new m3 makes a TON more power under the curve, and overall has a much higher average HP rating at all RPM than the outgoing e9x.

compare this with being lighter, and the e9x m3 is going to get smoked in a straight line.

the new m3 also has more robust brakes, lighter weight, a new generation of suspension and materials technology (always makes a difference, see each gen of the m3 since its inception) and a much more powerful engine.

its also much nicer in the interior and comes with more standard features, albeit at a likely higher price.

it will crush the outgoing m3 in all those metrics IMO. people who are focusing on peak HP numbers are missing out.

EDIT : and also, can we get past saying the new engine is an n55 with a chip?

it has

-new internals
-massively redone and reworked cooling system (liquid to air system with multiple heat exchangers and radiators)
-new, completely different turbos
-new tuning tech that allows the turbos to remain spooled even when off throttle
I certainly agree it might indeed be quite a bit faster than it sounds on paper (Stingray certainly is) and I hope it is. If it thrashes a full bolt-on e92 M3 and still sounds pretty decent then I would certainly be feeling a lot better about getting into one.

Can't wait for the Top Gear and C&D reviews of it so we can get some real-life figures.
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      12-12-2013, 03:16 PM   #15
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OP: You forgot better gas mileage DESPITE the increase in hp and torque. I'm waiting for when one hits the showroom and take a test drive. I've had quite a few turbo powered vehicles so I don't mind them.
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      12-12-2013, 03:16 PM   #16
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You are making some bold claims. I'll wait and see.

The jump from e46->e92 is not comparable to e92->f80

e46->e92 was a huge leap. e92->f80 is a tweak of perfection.

The e92 M3 is one heck of a benchmark.

Personally, I think I my next car will be a 991S


Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
the new m3 will destroy the e9x in a straight line.

sure, at peak, both may make similar HP. but when you shift and drive, you use all of the top 3000 RPM give or take. the new M3 makes 430 HP from basically 5500 RPM to redline at 7400 RPM. The net result is that the new m3 makes a TON more power under the curve, and overall has a much higher average HP rating at all RPM than the outgoing e9x.

compare this with being lighter, and the e9x m3 is going to get smoked in a straight line.

the new m3 also has more robust brakes, lighter weight, a new generation of suspension and materials technology (always makes a difference, see each gen of the m3 since its inception) and a much more powerful engine.

its also much nicer in the interior and comes with more standard features, albeit at a likely higher price.

it will crush the outgoing m3 in all those metrics IMO. people who are focusing on peak HP numbers are missing out.

EDIT : and also, can we get past saying the new engine is an n55 with a chip?

it has

-new internals
-massively redone and reworked cooling system (liquid to air system with multiple heat exchangers and radiators)
-new, completely different turbos
-new tuning tech that allows the turbos to remain spooled even when off throttle
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      12-12-2013, 03:20 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nautik View Post
Oh yea no doubt about it. I suspect most people aren't going want to void that warranty right away though ;p
You missed the keyword "Bolt-on"....intake and exhaust with a tune are easily reversible before going to the dealer Personally I wouldn't wait
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      12-12-2013, 03:22 PM   #18
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This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dsm918 View Post
Turbo cars make some serious power with minimal upgrades.
The f80 is going to be a monster from the factory.. and a terror after the tuners get to it.

Looking forward to it !
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      12-12-2013, 03:23 PM   #19
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Nice Spec and great looking style though but no thanks I'm taken e9X M3 V8 muscle over this crappy turbos every time it comes to mind.
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      12-12-2013, 03:24 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Personally, I think I my next car will be a 991S
This.

If I want a twin-turbo boy racer car, I'm getting an R35.
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      12-12-2013, 03:26 PM   #21
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Is the next gen M3/4 really going up to $90K?
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      12-12-2013, 03:29 PM   #22
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how is it not better on paper? seriously? this thread is just going to create a bunch of haters who will bitch about price, sound, and the other genius ones so far like getting into a porsche or now calling the m3 a "boy race car" lol jeez people. this will dominate and it is definitely better than the outgoing m3 and it isn't just a tweak. just wait for the lap times to come out. if you don't like it based on preferential reasons that's fine, but don't make excuses. just go ahead with your new car and may you enjoy it in good health
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