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      12-12-2013, 02:02 PM   #23
MMM3PWR
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Glad I have one paid for in my garage!!
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      12-12-2013, 02:22 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
That's why I said "likely". We don't know the gearing yet.
and im saying it doesn't matter what the gearing is, you would never shift at 6000 RPM. under any circumstances.

anyway, doesn't matter. we will see how peoples impressions change when the car is available to test drive. I for one am almost certain it will be awesome and a huge improvement in performance and fun factor on the street and track
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      12-12-2013, 02:36 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Tokay444 View Post
Meh.
The new boosted mill will respond much more eagerly to tuning and mods than the already milked v8, be smaller, lighter, and already torquier.
It hits peak power at 5500 based on the tune. That could easily be shifted to the right, at at least held to redline with mild adjustment to wgdc, and a slight massaging of the ignition curve.
I doubt they're milking these turbos for all they're worth.
The first time one of you v8 guys gets pulled by one it'll be off to the dealer for you, I'm sure.
M cars aren't for straight line speed. It can pull on me all it wants. The total experience in my S65 that eggs me on to rev more and more and more and fact that I will be hearing REAL engine noises gives me a better experience.
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      12-12-2013, 02:41 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by US///M3 View Post
Good night? It's not like my car is going to suddenly disappear the moment the F80/82 start hitting BMW dealer lots.
Did you read the fine print?

The S65 was an improvement on the S54 motor. And that's saying something.
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      12-12-2013, 02:43 PM   #27
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thanks for the post OP, i was watching that video for 3 years before being able to get my M3 <3
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      12-12-2013, 03:27 PM   #28
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Depends on the car / gearing and how fast or slow you shift
No it does not.
Car yes, but I thought we were talking about the m3 here.
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      12-12-2013, 03:29 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by radiantm3 View Post
+1. Just because you don't feel the surge of torque in the upper RPM's doesn't mean you don't need to shift at/near redline for the fastest acceleration. It's just not as exciting as the S65.
If you make max power at 5500 rpm, and shift at 7000, well after power starts to fall off, you're going to be accelerating slower than if you're shifting properly and landing right in the meat of the powerband.
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      12-12-2013, 03:31 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Rev ///Me View Post
M cars aren't for straight line speed. It can pull on me all it wants. The total experience in my S65 that eggs me on to rev more and more and more and fact that I will be hearing REAL engine noises gives me a better experience.
The lighter engine will aide in transient respsonse, grip and should in turn relate to an improvement in overall driving feel.
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      12-12-2013, 03:41 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Tokay444 View Post
No it does not.
Car yes, but I thought we were talking about the m3 here.
yes, actually it does. do you know the gearing ratios of the f80 m3? its hard to know what RPM it will drop to shifting at redline in 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokay444 View Post
If you make max power at 5500 rpm, and shift at 7000, well after power starts to fall off, you're going to be accelerating slower than if you're shifting properly and landing right in the meat of the powerband.
look at this graph. notice if you shift at redline how you are making way more power on AVERAGE than if you shift 3/4 of the way to redline.

also notice how much more power under the curve the F80 makes compared to the e9x.

hope this helps
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      12-12-2013, 03:46 PM   #32
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Shifting ANYWHERE in the rev range, is not going to alter the ratio of the gears. It will always drop the exact same amount respectively. I would wager a bet, it won't be more than 1200rpms.
Shifting anytime after power drops off, will result in being slower to accelerate. Since that graph doesn't have any rpm designations, I cannot comment on it specifically.
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      12-12-2013, 03:59 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Tokay444 View Post
Shifting ANYWHERE in the rev range, is not going to alter the ratio of the gears. It will always drop the exact same amount respectively. I would wager a bet, it won't be more than 1200rpms.
Shifting anytime after power drops off, will result in being slower to accelerate. Since that graph doesn't have any rpm designations, I cannot comment on it specifically.
for fun, I just checked an acceleration vid of an e92 m3 with DCT (extremely short gearing). the RPMS dropped by ~2200 on the first to second and second to third shifts.

point remains on the f80 m3, shifting at higher RPMS will result in more average power since the power is flat for 2000ish RPM and does not drop off according to BMW.
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      12-12-2013, 04:06 PM   #34
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If it doesn't drop off, and holds right to redline, then yes, shift at redline.
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      12-12-2013, 04:19 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by davesaddiction View Post
So, the new engine makes peak power at 5500 RPM. You can rev it out past 7000, but the engine won't really be encouraging you to, like the S65 does. It really will be a whole different experience. Not necessarily bad, but a lot different. I'm interested to start hearing the reviews.
The new engine makes peak power from 5500 thru 7300 rpm, which means you MUST rev it past 7300 to get max acceleration. In fact, as with any automotive engine, you must rev it past the power peak before you shift, so as to get more power in the next gear, and therefore get max average acceleration over whatever distance. In this area, the new mill has the advantage in that you can rev 400 rpm past the power peak, instead of merely 100 rpm past peak with the current engine. This new car will run comparatively like a striped ape after every shift.

Lastly, the new powerplant makes peak torque from 1850 thru 5500 rpm, whereas the current S65 doesn't peak until 3900 rpm, and starts losing torque after that. Admittedly that curve is extremely flat, losing only around 11% over a 4400 rpm window, which is terrific for a smog legal street engine. However, this new super six will make approximately the same power after each shift as it did before each shift (except for the 1-2), which means the car will accelerate just as hard in the next gear. This is almost unheard of.

You are correct in assuming the new one won't charge to redline with the same brassy, blaring, clarion-call-to-battle that the current car does, but it sure as hell won't be feeling weak, either. And with 406 pound feet at low rpm, it'll have that effortless feel that the current one lacks. Come around that 90-degree corner in third, and just pull away on a low-noise tsunami of torque.

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      12-12-2013, 04:26 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokay444 View Post
If you make max power at 5500 rpm, and shift at 7000, well after power starts to fall off, you're going to be accelerating slower than if you're shifting properly and landing right in the meat of the powerband.
As I just mentioned, the new car makes peak power up through 7300 rpm, meaning you must take it at least that high (and actually beyond) before you shift.

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      12-12-2013, 04:36 PM   #37
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If peak power is flat from 5500 on, as long as your shift point doesn't drop you below 5500, there is no need to rev it out to or past redline.
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      12-12-2013, 04:38 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokay444 View Post
Shifting ANYWHERE in the rev range, is not going to alter the ratio of the gears. It will always drop the exact same amount respectively. I would wager a bet, it won't be more than 1200rpms.
Shifting anytime after power drops off, will result in being slower to accelerate. Since that graph doesn't have any rpm designations, I cannot comment on it specifically.
Gear to gear, revs will drop proportional to the rpm at the shift point. If second gear is 59% of first gear (around the ratio spread of the current car), then if you shift at 4200 rpm from first to second, revs will mechanically drop to 2478 rpm. Shifting at 8400, to 4956.

On just about any automotive engine, you must shift past the power peak for max acceleration. Reason: You're trying to achieve max average power over whatever distance or speed delta.

This new engine may be an anomaly, since each gear change (after the one-two) may let you stay at max power after the shift, in which case you needn't rev any higher than 7300.

That would be amazing, just in general - and also because of rotational inertia issues which may in fact lower the effective shift point even more.

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      12-12-2013, 04:42 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by I am Earl View Post
The new car redlines at 7300 rpm, its more like 1000 rpm. That's about 15% more revving.
Fuel cutoff is at 8400 rpm vs 7700 rpm. You need to shift the current car at 8400 for max acceleration. We'll see where you need to shift the new one at, but I'd bet right at the rev limiter at least for the one-two shift.

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      12-12-2013, 04:47 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bruce.augenstein@comcast. View Post
Gear to gear, revs will drop proportional to the rpm at the shift point. If second gear is 59% of first gear (around the ratio spread of the current car), then if you shift at 4200 rpm from first to second, revs will mechanically drop to 2478 rpm. Shifting at 8400, to 4956.

Bruce
Is this a cvt manual transmission?
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      12-12-2013, 05:11 PM   #41
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8400 to 4959?!?!?
No. Just no.

And this guy is shifting extremely slowly. Further emphasizing the drop in rpm.
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      12-12-2013, 07:32 PM   #42
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Is this a cvt manual transmission?
You're kidding.

There is no CVT available. 6-speed (in this example), or 7-speed DCT.
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      12-12-2013, 08:05 PM   #43
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Kidding? No. Sarcastic? Yes.
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      12-12-2013, 09:00 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Transfer View Post
I'm sure it will be the best engine ever that I can say I owned. I understand the direction BMW has taken but I don't agree with it. If only we had the lighter F8x with the 22 lb heavier S65 or a similar high reving V8. The net of 150 lbs less weight and an advanced chassis would be nice but everyone had to have their torque and BMW decided to go half assed green.

22 lbs weight savings, 5 mpg improvement, slightly better smog, and higher torque aren't good enough to me when comparing S55 to S65.
This.

Long live the S65B40
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