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      12-10-2013, 02:27 PM   #23
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^i think you are confused. I don't have KW V3. I have KW Clubsport 3way. The normal club sports are 2 way. Mine are 3way club sports

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying
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      12-10-2013, 02:34 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD View Post
^i think you are confused. I don't have KW V3. I have KW Clubsport 3way. The normal club sports are 2 way. Mine are 3way club sports

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying
I didn't say you have the V3's either, I'm actually with you
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      12-10-2013, 02:40 PM   #25
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Hahaha ok. I'm slow ;(
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      12-10-2013, 03:31 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hujan View Post
Thanks, guys. That's exactly what I'm counting on.

Great minds think alike, Biggy. I am taking the car up to MRF soon to get high-temp brake fluid and SS brake lines and a set of track pads to swap in when the time comes. Someday I'll grab a set of 18" Apex Arc-8s and wrap them in Michelin Pilot Sport Cups.

Sorry for the thread-jack, OP.
Very good idea! you will love it. Try RS3s they are really cheap and very good performers. I got a set from Tire Rack for $150 per tire when they were clearing out their old inventory.
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      12-10-2013, 03:34 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mawana View Post
Incorrect! The KW 3 Way are first a street coilover that can be tracked while the KW Clubsports are a track coilover that is streetable.
http://kw-suspension.com/us/kw_variant_3.php
http://kw-suspension.com/us/kw_clubsport.php



I believe the Clubsports are valved firmer than the 3 Way - at least for the e46 setups. I have the Clubsports on my zhp and I believe the valving is fixed at lower speeds. My only gripe with them is finding someone who can revalve them state-side.

The confusion is here-

The KW Variant 3 is a height adjustable threaded body damper with compression and rebound adjustment and progressive rate springs. The springs are relatively soft and designed for high performance street and light track duty, and the dampers are valved to suit.

The KW ClubSport is a height adjustable threaded body damper with compression and rebound adjustment and linear rate springs. In addition to a host of features that help the ClubSport to be more capable on the track, the linear springs are a substantially higher rate and the damper is of course valved to suit.

A KW 3 Way would typically refer to a KW 3 way adjustable ClubSport. This is again a height adjustable threaded body damper, but this time featuring high speed compression, low speed compression, and rebound damping adjustment. This is a very different product than the KW Variant 3, and is built for a much higher performance level (at the expense of a higher purchase price).

My stance on the issue remains that KW engineers are among the best in the world, and KW's access to an in-house 7 post test rig puts KW several steps above many competitors. While many suspension manufacturers fall into and out of popularity, KW's consistent performance and excellent reliability has kept KW as IND's go-to mixed use street and track suspension.
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      12-10-2013, 05:11 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilia@IND View Post
The confusion is here-

The KW Variant 3 is a height adjustable threaded body damper with compression and rebound adjustment and progressive rate springs. The springs are relatively soft and designed for high performance street and light track duty, and the dampers are valved to suit.

The KW ClubSport is a height adjustable threaded body damper with compression and rebound adjustment and linear rate springs. In addition to a host of features that help the ClubSport to be more capable on the track, the linear springs are a substantially higher rate and the damper is of course valved to suit.

A KW 3 Way would typically refer to a KW 3 way adjustable ClubSport. This is again a height adjustable threaded body damper, but this time featuring high speed compression, low speed compression, and rebound damping adjustment. This is a very different product than the KW Variant 3, and is built for a much higher performance level (at the expense of a higher purchase price).

My stance on the issue remains that KW engineers are among the best in the world, and KW's access to an in-house 7 post test rig puts KW several steps above many competitors. While many suspension manufacturers fall into and out of popularity, KW's consistent performance and excellent reliability has kept KW as IND's go-to mixed use street and track suspension.
By "KW 3 Way" are you referring to the KW Competition 3-Way?
http://kw-suspension.com/us/kw_competition.php
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      12-10-2013, 06:10 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mawana View Post
By "KW 3 Way" are you referring to the KW Competition 3-Way?
http://kw-suspension.com/us/kw_competition.php
KW actually recently added 3 way adjustable ClubSport dampers to their lineup. This is a relatively new thing, but can be seen at their website here, if you scroll down to "KW ClubSport 3 way adjustable damping":

http://kw-suspension.com/us/kw_clubsport.php

The competition line products are a bit more extreme than the ClubSport, and are not the same parts.
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      12-10-2013, 06:27 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilia@IND View Post
KW actually recently added 3 way adjustable ClubSport dampers to their lineup. This is a relatively new thing, but can be seen at their website here, if you scroll down to "KW ClubSport 3 way adjustable damping":

http://kw-suspension.com/us/kw_clubsport.php

The competition line products are a bit more extreme than the ClubSport, and are not the same parts.
Thanks, I had no idea those existed. Seems they give more flexibility but some tuning complexity. I don't see mention of valving: is it any different to the normal clubsports other than the adjustments possible?

..and I take it you guys stock these as well?
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      12-10-2013, 06:41 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mawana View Post
Thanks, I had no idea those existed. Seems they give more flexibility but some tuning complexity. I don't see mention of valving: is it any different to the normal clubsports other than the adjustments possible?

..and I take it you guys stock these as well?
Absolutely. Splitting compression adjustment into low speed and high speed is a very powerful tuning tool, but does take some more setup knowledge. It's less likely that you'll get the setup right "by feel" as most trackday folks tend to adjust, and that you'll need to do some datalogging to arrive at a truly perfect result.

The three way adjustable dampers have an external reservoir which has the added benefit of increasing the temperature stability of the damper, allowing it to operate in harsh conditions for longer, without a change in the damper's behavior due to overheating.

We do not typically stock the 3 way ClubSport kit as it's more of a niche product, but can provide the kit and setup advice to IND clients on an as-needed basis.
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      12-10-2013, 07:27 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD View Post
^i agree. We have driven these and the ohlins RT back to back and these are more track oriented. The ohlins are good for the street but u need a higher version for the track which in sure are stupendous but costly.

I drive mine on the street and track. My only car. Compression and rebound is a factory settings. Pretty much the middle
Sammy, sorry I wasn't able to make it to the track as I promised you I would help setup your Clubsports. My tires did not arrive in time, so there was no way I could have made it.

If you are running the factory settings from KW on the system, there is much more room for improvement. Hopefully I can catch you at Josh's next event in January so I can help you out this time.

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      12-10-2013, 08:17 PM   #33
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Excellent comparison and thanks for sharing. As a note, not exactly sure but those seem like fast times and when you're starting to plateau in a current setup (not saying this is the case) 1-2 seconds on a 2:00 or lower lap is considerable. I've been stuck at some times for a bit, and if I could shave almost 3 seconds off a 2:30 lap or so I would be ecstatic. I think people are neglecting how flat the learning curve gets when you start getting up there and 2 seconds, in the track world, is pretty big. I run dinan springs and camber plates (they're fixed at -1.7 so not that great) and run AD08's and if I could shave almost 5 seconds by switching to these suspensions and rocking some R-comps, that would be the best & cheapest upgrade for true performance (on a racetrack) I could see. Great comparisons and hope to do the same one day
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      12-10-2013, 08:34 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klammer View Post
Excellent comparison and thanks for sharing. As a note, not exactly sure but those seem like fast times and when you're starting to plateau in a current setup (not saying this is the case) 1-2 seconds on a 2:00 or lower lap is considerable. I've been stuck at some times for a bit, and if I could shave almost 3 seconds off a 2:30 lap or so I would be ecstatic. I think people are neglecting how flat the learning curve gets when you start getting up there and 2 seconds, in the track world, is pretty big. I run dinan springs and camber plates (they're fixed at -1.7 so not that great) and run AD08's and if I could shave almost 5 seconds by switching to these suspensions and rocking some R-comps, that would be the best & cheapest upgrade for true performance (on a racetrack) I could see. Great comparisons and hope to do the same one day
Well said and thanks Klammer.
I'm sure a pro could run faster but the times are with some of the fastest on the forum. So I think seeing these gains especially considering I only did 1 track day at each track since says a lot.

And malek thank you. I played with it a bit and increased rear low speed dampening at WSIR as I felt a bit of understeer. May try lowering the front instead or do 1 and 1.

Trying to find out more about high and low speed dampening. Haven't touched the rebound yet
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      12-10-2013, 08:45 PM   #35
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Just put these guys on so hopefully can cut some more time

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      12-10-2013, 08:47 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilia@IND View Post
The confusion is here-

The KW Variant 3 is a height adjustable threaded body damper with compression and rebound adjustment and progressive rate springs. The springs are relatively soft and designed for high performance street and light track duty, and the dampers are valved to suit.

The KW ClubSport is a height adjustable threaded body damper with compression and rebound adjustment and linear rate springs. In addition to a host of features that help the ClubSport to be more capable on the track, the linear springs are a substantially higher rate and the damper is of course valved to suit.

A KW 3 Way would typically refer to a KW 3 way adjustable ClubSport. This is again a height adjustable threaded body damper, but this time featuring high speed compression, low speed compression, and rebound damping adjustment. This is a very different product than the KW Variant 3, and is built for a much higher performance level (at the expense of a higher purchase price).

My stance on the issue remains that KW engineers are among the best in the world, and KW's access to an in-house 7 post test rig puts KW several steps above many competitors. While many suspension manufacturers fall into and out of popularity, KW's consistent performance and excellent reliability has kept KW as IND's go-to mixed use street and track suspension.
So:

KW v1: Height (w/ progressive springs and lower spring rates)

KW v2: Height and rebound (w/ progressive springs and lower spring rates)

KW v3: Height, rebound, and compression (w/ progressive springs and lower spring rates)

KW Clubsport: Height, rebound, compression, and camber (w/ linear springs and higher spring rates)

KW Clubsport 3-Way: Height, rebound, low-speed compression, high-speed compression, and camber (w/ linear springs and higher spring rates)
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Last edited by Hujan; 12-10-2013 at 09:30 PM. Reason: Edited per Ilia's post below. Sorry!
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      12-10-2013, 09:04 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hujan View Post
So:

KW v1: Height (w/ progressive springs and lower spring rates)

KW v2: Height and compression (w/ progressive springs and lower spring rates)

KW v3: Height, compression, and rebound (w/ progressive springs and lower spring rates)

KW Clubsport: Height, compression, and rebound (w/ linear springs and higher spring rates)

KW Clubsport 3-Way: Height, low-speed compression, high-speed compression, and rebound (w/ linear springs and higher spring rates)
Nearly exactly correct! The only small changes I'd make are that the Variant 2 damper is adjustable in height and rebound only, and that the ClubSport kits have adjustable camber plates as well. The ClubSport kits actually have a host of other features including a sealed strut bearing for the camber plate, helper springs to allow for more travel in bump at a lowered ride height, and external reservoirs for the 3 way dampers, but those are not adjustments.

To edit your post just slightly:


KW v1: Height (w/ progressive springs and lower spring rates)

KW v2: Height and rebound (w/ progressive springs and lower spring rates)

KW v3: Height, compression, and rebound (w/ progressive springs and lower spring rates)

KW Clubsport: Height, compression, and rebound (With camber adjustment) (w/ linear springs and higher spring rates)

KW Clubsport 3-Way: Height, low-speed compression, high-speed compression, and rebound (With camber adjustment) (w/ linear springs and higher spring rates)
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      12-10-2013, 09:30 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilia@IND View Post
Nearly exactly correct! The only small changes I'd make are that the Variant 2 damper is adjustable in height and rebound only, and that the ClubSport kits have adjustable camber plates as well. The ClubSport kits actually have a host of other features including a sealed strut bearing for the camber plate, helper springs to allow for more travel in bump at a lowered ride height, and external reservoirs for the 3 way dampers, but those are not adjustments.

To edit your post just slightly:


KW v1: Height (w/ progressive springs and lower spring rates)

KW v2: Height and rebound (w/ progressive springs and lower spring rates)

KW v3: Height, compression, and rebound (w/ progressive springs and lower spring rates)

KW Clubsport: Height, compression, and rebound (With camber adjustment) (w/ linear springs and higher spring rates)

KW Clubsport 3-Way: Height, low-speed compression, high-speed compression, and rebound (With camber adjustment) (w/ linear springs and higher spring rates)
You are correct on both, my mistake. I edited my original post to avoid confusion. Good catch and thank you for correcting me!
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      12-10-2013, 10:05 PM   #39
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KW is great!

Stop Tech works well. If you are running slicks then consider upgrading the pads.
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      12-13-2013, 10:57 AM   #40
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I'm sad to see that we share the same suspension and brakes..., while your lap times are significantly better than mine . Nice work and thank you for going through the effort of logging and posting your data!
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      12-13-2013, 11:10 AM   #41
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I'm sad to see that we share the same suspension and brakes..., while your lap times are significantly better than mine . Nice work and thank you for going through the effort of logging and posting your data!
Hahaha always someone faster.

Glad someone else gets to enjoy this suspension. It's phenomenal
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      12-13-2013, 11:34 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DD GT3 RD View Post
Just put these guys on so hopefully can cut some more time


beautiful choice in components and i use 3 way clubsports for my z4m and imo they are phenomenal and right up their with ohlins / jrz, not the best road shock tho as i find it very harsh but you can have your cake and eat it, OF course imo.... you do look like you may need a small spacer as you can see where your tyre has rubber on the spring and perch.....
any thoughts on this??

also more brake pics PLEASE!
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      12-13-2013, 12:38 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beedub View Post
beautiful choice in components and i use 3 way clubsports for my z4m and imo they are phenomenal and right up their with ohlins / jrz, not the best road shock, OF course imo.... you do look like you may need a small spacer and your can see where your tyre has rubber on the spring and perch.....
any thoughts on this??

also more brake pics PLEASE!
Yes I had a 5mm spacer and it did that so I added a 10mm. I think its good now.

Added the lip and took out lower grill

http://s475.photobucket.com/user/sam...jj98j.jpg.html


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      12-14-2013, 12:37 AM   #44
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Amazed that lip is in such good condition. You are low in the first and last shot! It always amazes me as I scrape on the transition in and out of my parking garage at work and on my parents' driveway on stock ZCP suspension with no lip or splitters. And that's taking it slow and angling. I don't know what I'd do with a lip and coils.
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