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      12-17-2013, 08:24 AM   #23
Beedub
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jritt@essex View Post
Brakes and car look great!

If you do have a CP5575 caliper, the pad for your AP caliper is exactly the same as the pad in our calipers, except they are 1mm thinner in your caliper.
You can see it on our website here. We have three sets in your size in stock currently (FRP3077), and they retail at $437.93 per set.
so would i need to buy the pads and have them shaved by 1mm??? or are you saying you stock the 1mm thinner pad?? also is this pad shape the right one as ive used certain pagid units and they sweep a smaller amount of the rotor....

thanks for all your advise btw.... if i had an m3 it would be this kit i shoot for no doubt!!
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      12-17-2013, 08:31 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by r53s65e90 View Post
Nice kit!!! I would have considered it if it were available last year. Did someone really come in with caliper covers?
Thanks! Yes, yes they did. I thought that was fairly ironic as well...going from caliper covers to a full-blown race kit. That's quite a leap!

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I would be interested if you made discs that fit the 365x34 brembo hat with McLaren fasteners or any disc+hat option that would work with the brembo N caliper of the 364x34 kit.
That is not a product that we're planning at this time. Our kits are designed with primarily AP Racing components that all work together as a system. Sorry we can't help!
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      12-17-2013, 08:42 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fjork_duf View Post
Thanks for the response. I will be looking to purchase early '14. I need to get rid of two wheels sets from old cars prior to spending more money ;-)
Great! We'll be here.

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I think my wife is tired of the wheels stacks in the garage.
I feel ya. At one point I had 12 wheels/tires in my garage for my Z06. My wife was...umm...less than pleased at the time. You need to get creative with them. Hang some children's artwork on them or something. The simple goal is to make her forget that they are wheels & tires.
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One more stupid question: If I get these and track pads I should be able to go balls out at HDPEs without fear of cooking the brakes I assume? (20 min sessions) Of course I would swap to high temp fluid as well.
I have been holding back on braking because I don't fully trust the stock brakes at very high speeds.
Absolutely! That's exactly what they're designed to do...take a beating on track. Every piece of every component is designed to resist heat. All of the little details in the calipers and discs add up to superior air flow, heat resistance, etc. If you look on our blog and some of the links I provided above, you'll see tons of comments from our customers regarding their new-found confidence in their driving after installing our brake kit. I've been there, and worrying about or babying brakes is a miserable way to drive. There are too many other things to concentrate on out there...flaggers, traffic, etc...brakes shouldn't be one of them. That is what we're after with our setup.

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I'd like to be full speed before the Andretti hairpin ;-)
I'm confident we can make that happen.
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      12-17-2013, 08:47 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beedub View Post
so would i need to buy the pads and have them shaved by 1mm??? or are you saying you stock the 1mm thinner pad?? also is this pad shape the right one as ive used certain pagid units and they sweep a smaller amount of the rotor....

thanks for all your advise btw.... if i had an m3 it would be this kit i shoot for no doubt!!
The pad shape I listed is the 1mm thinner version, and yes we stock it. The pad shape for our big brake kit is the FRP3003.

I honestly don't know if it's the right shape for your application. I searched for the pad used by the AP racing CP5575 part number you gave me. Do you have the old Pagid boxes, or a receipt from the Pagid pads? If so, we can cross reference those numbers to Ferodo to make sure we're looking at the right part #. If all else fails, tracing the pad on a piece of paper and faxing it to us is an option as well. We can help if you email us. Thanks.
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      12-17-2013, 02:26 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jritt@essex View Post
The pad shape I listed is the 1mm thinner version, and yes we stock it. The pad shape for our big brake kit is the FRP3003.

I honestly don't know if it's the right shape for your application. I searched for the pad used by the AP racing CP5575 part number you gave me. Do you have the old Pagid boxes, or a receipt from the Pagid pads? If so, we can cross reference those numbers to Ferodo to make sure we're looking at the right part #. If all else fails, tracing the pad on a piece of paper and faxing it to us is an option as well. We can help if you email us. Thanks.
ill email :-) front caliper is CP5575 rear is cp5144, checked part numbers from the manual... will drop you a pm to order a front and rear set of those new ferrodo pads!
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      12-17-2013, 02:38 PM   #28
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Am trying to understand the rationale here. The reason people upgrade to BBK for the E9X platform is because the stock system cannot dissipate heat effectively. Folks go with 380mm or 378mm FROM stock 360mm. This is almost a step backwards in terms of total area (of rotor).

While it may work with a lighter Corvette, in my case my car weights 3800lbs (yes on the scale) and I go through set of Pagid Yellow or PF08 pads (front) each track weekend (on almost all the tracks I attend) with the stock brake system. Going with smaller rotor is counterintuitive in this case for me, hence asking the question.

Thanks,

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      12-17-2013, 02:59 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lutfy View Post
Am trying to understand the rationale here. The reason people upgrade to BBK for the E9X platform is because the stock system cannot dissipate heat effectively. Folks go with 380mm or 378mm FROM stock 360mm. This is almost a step backwards in terms of total area (of rotor).

While it may work with a lighter Corvette, in my case my car weights 3800lbs (yes on the scale) and I go through set of Pagid Yellow or PF08 pads (front) each track weekend (on almost all the tracks I attend) with the stock brake system. Going with smaller rotor is counterintuitive in this case for me, hence asking the question.

Thanks,

Lutfy
Hey Lutfy, I know you're not trying to be a smart@ss or anything...no worries at all. I actually addressed this topic in my very first post. That said, there was a lot to take in there...so I pasted the relevant section below. When evaluating discs, there is a lot more to the question than simply size! The design of our discs is a far cry from what comes stock on these cars. The demands on a system are also not strictly dictated by vehicle weight. Weight, speed, weight bias/weight shift, tire capacity, etc. all factor in.


Quote:
I'll try to head off a few more of the questions people will likely have about this kit with a brief Q & A:

Q: Why aren't the discs bigger?
A: Short answer: Because they don't need to be! Long answer: Our systems are built from a racing mentality. In the pro racing world, teams scrap and scream to remove ounces of weight from the cars. Anything that is larger than necessary to get the job done is simply dead weight to drag around. That is how we approach our design. If you want to go faster and a 14" disc will work, a 15" disc will simply add weight, increase the moment of inertia, and hinder wheel fitment. Sure it will look pretty behind 20" wheels, but that's not what this product line is about.

The 14" AP Racing CP5773 Heavy Duty J Hook discs we are using are the exact same discs that won the championship last year on the Action Express Corvette Daytona Prototypes. These discs are being tortured in endurance racing events every weekend at the hands of some of the top drivers in the world. Yes those cars are significantly lighter, but they're also significantly more powerful, and far faster. To give you an idea of the boundaries they're pushing, one recently hit 223 mph in testing! :O If you think you'll give these discs a harder workout in your 20 minute DE session than these guys will when running 24 Hours of Daytona...no offense, but you're probably wrong. Keep in mind that the amount of energy transfer (changing kinetic spinning energy from the disc into heat) in a braking event is most greatly impacted by speed....more so than by weight. I'm going to get a bit technical here, so feel free to skip ahead if you feel your eyes glazing over! The core formula for kinetic energy is:

kinetic energy = vehicle weight x vehicle speed2

Take note of that little superscript at the end. If you look at the equation above, you'll note that doubling the vehicle's weight would double the kinetic energy, but doubling the vehicle speed would increase the kinetic energy by a factor of four! So in plain English, that means a stop from 220mph on a lighter car is going to be tougher on the brakes than a stop from 140mph on a substantially heavier car.

When comparing discs, you can't simply look at the diameter and decide that one will be more effective than another. The number of vanes, air gap, wall thickness, vane shape, metallurgy, hat attachment design, etc. all have to be taken into account.

To give you another example, our small four piston C6 Corvette Kit has found its way onto quite a few C6 Z06's pushing 600hp at the track. That kit features a 325x32mm disc. The OEM front disc on a C6 Z06 is 355x32mm. With a disc that is 30mm smaller in diameter than stock, many of our customers are seeing huge increases in pad and fluid fade resistance, less disc cracking, longer disc life, pads that wear longer, etc. Again, it's not just disc size that matters. It's all about design and optimization.

Wheel fitment is also of critical importance in our design process. As mentioned above, most of our customers run the smallest, lightest wheels available for the platform. I won't go into all of the merits of doing so, but obviously unsprung weight, lower rotational mass, cheaper tires, etc. all factor in. Our systems are packaged tightly to allow for a wide range of wheel fitment. Using an extremely large diameter disc kills wheel fitment, and the utility of a track-optimized brake system.

Okay...I've beaten that one to death.

Last edited by jritt@essex; 12-17-2013 at 03:05 PM.
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      12-18-2013, 02:38 PM   #30
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Welcome to the forum! If you need another M3 to test fit or *ahem* test them over a long period of time, let me know. I'm in the Charlotte/Greenville area. I had no idea such a company existed here!?
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      12-19-2013, 08:47 AM   #31
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Quote:
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Welcome to the forum! If you need another M3 to test fit or *ahem* test them over a long period of time, let me know. I'm in the Charlotte/Greenville area. I had no idea such a company existed here!?
Thanks! Yep, we're right in your backyard. We already have a couple of cars we've been using to test fit, etc., so I think we're covered there. You're welcome to stop by at any time for a tour of our facility or to check out our products. They will come in very handy down at CMP, or over at VIR, Road Atlanta, etc.
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      12-19-2013, 10:53 AM   #32
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I also wanted to note that if you want to be kept in the loop on the latest developments with out brake kits, please like us on Facebook, and check out the essex blog. I just put 30+ pics of BMW race cars running AP Racing brakes on our Facebook page. That should give you an idea of the company you'll be keeping if you purchase our kit. Here are a couple:








You can see a bunch of customer cars in our facebook photo gallery.

Here are some closeups of the DTM calipers that the four cars pictured directly above are running...thought these might be of interest as well. We actually just put a set of these on a C6 Z06 with a fully built Katech engine.




Last edited by jritt@essex; 12-19-2013 at 02:30 PM.
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      12-19-2013, 12:27 PM   #33
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Garage List
Tons more AP Racing porn in this thread to show years of racing heritage:



AP Racing appreciation - brake, clutch, pedal box, air jack masters
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=731832
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      12-20-2013, 01:56 PM   #34
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Do you have full floating J hook rotors available 368? I cant remember the size but think this is it. I have an older full floating AP kit (6 pot front/4 pot rear).
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      12-22-2013, 07:32 AM   #35
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[/quote]I'm not sure to which kit or rotor you are referring, as there are a number of kits on the market. Please give me the details on the specific kit to which you're referring, and I'll do what I can to help. None of the kits we sell use the strap-drive system. We use the same disc attachment method that we use in pro racing...float in disc, fewer hardware pieces, simple assembly. This setup allows for a good deal of float, and the spring clip helps with knockback and keeps it from rattling and making noise. Below are some pics. It's a proven system that has been raced a million miles and has scored heaps of victories and championships. [/quote]


I have the only kit I though existed for the E92 M3 (APracing link below) The Calipers I have are part numbers;
Front: CP5555M1050 or 1049 (I think same calipers?)
Rear: CP6602-1001

So my earlier question was if these non-strap drive rotors would be compatible with my current APracing calipers for my 2008, E92 M3?


http://www.apracing.com/product_deta...5555m1050.aspx
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      01-02-2014, 12:17 PM   #36
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Hi Guys,
Happy New Year. If you'd like me to check disc availability, the best way to do so is to give me the part number straight off of the disc. It's usually located on the outer edge. That's the surefire way for me to see what we can do for you.

AP has loads of discs, many of which are variants of the same basic casting. To complicate things even further, some AP distributors don't even use AP Racing discs in the kits they sell. It's therefore difficult for us to know which specific product you need. Thanks.
Jeff
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      01-02-2014, 01:16 PM   #37
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When do you expect the new kit for E90-93 M3s to be ready? I'm strongly considering this kit in the beginning of the thread or possibly stop techs.
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      01-06-2014, 10:55 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fjork_duf View Post
When do you expect the new kit for E90-93 M3s to be ready? I'm strongly considering this kit in the beginning of the thread or possibly stop techs.
We plan to start shipping these kits by the end of January.

Quote:
Do you have full floating J hook rotors available 368? I cant remember the size but think this is it. I have an older full floating AP kit (6 pot front/4 pot rear).
My answer below will address this question and BimmerRob's question as well...The strap drive system and the bobbin setup we use on our kits are completely different floating mechanisms in terms of their implementation. They use different disc hats, and different disc iron. Therefore, it's not as easy as just taking an existing hat from a strap drive kit and attaching it to a different disc.

The discs used in a strap drive setup would have a round hole through which the hardware is bolted. The discs in our system have an oblong hole in the iron disc as shown below. The hardware slides along that channel as the iron disc expands.

  • Therefore, the only discs that fit the strap drive system are ones that were designed for use with it. Our standard racing discs will not work.
  • If you wanted a disc with the 'racing style' float mechanism, you would also need a completely new disc hat and hardware (which we have no plans to design at this time).
  • If you did have someone design a new hat for a different disc, the hat and disc dimensions would have to be identical to the prior strap drive setup. The offsets on the hat would have to be the same to locate the disc properly in the caliper, and the iron disc diameter and thickness would have to be the same.

So in summary...if you're using a strap-drive system from one of the older AP Racing systems, you are going to have to stick with that setup for the foreseeable future. If you need spare iron discs, your best bet is to contact the company from whom you originally purchased your kit. If you want to move away from the strap drive setup towards the floating setup we use, your best bet would be to sell your current kit on the used market and start over fresh.

Details on the disc/hat fixing system our Essex kits use:






\

Hopefully that is helpful and makes sense!
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      01-10-2014, 06:58 AM   #39
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Just got these for my s2000 track car. Haven't installed but in person thy look really nice!
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      01-10-2014, 09:58 AM   #40
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When do you expect the new kit for E90-93 M3s to be ready? I'm strongly considering this kit in the beginning of the thread or possibly stop techs.
you should probably hold off on your decision for a couple of weeks.
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      01-10-2014, 07:00 PM   #41
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Jeff, great to have you on the forum. I (and no doubt many others) have read your brake articles (they're stickies on this forum) and have learned a lot from them. So your reputation precedes you. Looking forward to your input on the forum. And no doubt I will be asking you brake and pad related questions often !

Welcome again, and the Essex bbk looks great!

- esquire
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      01-10-2014, 08:15 PM   #42
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you should probably hold off on your decision for a couple of weeks.
What's in a couple of weeks?
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      01-11-2014, 03:43 PM   #43
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Well I gotta say I am really stoked about this kit. I have been thinking about downsizing my 380mm BBK to a 355mm setup to increase my 18" wheel options.
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      01-13-2014, 09:25 AM   #44
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Hi Gents,
Components to build our front kit are due to be finished in production this week. We'll need inspect/quality check, assemble, and package everything, but that means we're hoping to start shipping our front kits out next week!

We have a generous customer who offered to let us use his car, so we're currently slated to fit check our revised rear components on 1/24/14. After we confirm the revised parts, it will be a few weeks until we start shipping the rear kits.

Please note that it is perfectly fine to run our front-only system with the OEM rear brakes.
The torque output of our front and rear kits very closely mimic the OEM brakes. If you're in need of brakes soon, that means you can run the front-only setup and add the rears when they're ready. For most people the fronts seem to be the big problem area, so no need to wait if you're looking for a front solution.

I'll post updates as I have them. I'm putting together the page for our front BBK on our website. I should have that done within the next couple of days, and I'll post the link in this thread.

Also, my engineers should have the wheel fitment template for our front kit done this week as well. That will allow those of you considering our kit to check your wheel clearance.

Quote:
Just got these for my s2000 track car. Haven't installed but in person thy look really nice!
Great! Thanks for the purchase, and I think you'll really enjoy them.

Quote:
Jeff, great to have you on the forum. I (and no doubt many others) have read your brake articles (they're stickies on this forum) and have learned a lot from them. So your reputation precedes you. Looking forward to your input on the forum. And no doubt I will be asking you brake and pad related questions often !

Welcome again, and the Essex bbk looks great!

- esquire
Thank you very much. I really appreciate that, and I'm glad you found those articles/videos helpful. Essex is excited to be involved in the M3 community. I think people are going to be very pleased with the products we're bringing to the party.

Quote:
Well I gotta say I am really stoked about this kit. I have been thinking about downsizing my 380mm BBK to a 355mm setup to increase my 18" wheel options.
Yes, our kit will provide a nice amount of clearance for wheels. As I mentioned above, we'll have our fitment template done very soon, and you'll be able to pop that in any wheel you are considering.

I think people are going to be really excited when they see how lightweight our system is, particularly vs. something like a 380mm setup. We did the weights vs. stock, and our kit shaves over 10 lbs. off of each front corner, or 20 lbs. unsprung weight off the nose of the car! Here's how the weight works out by component on the front kit:

Weights in lbs.
OEM
Caliper and bracket 13 lbs.
Disc weight 22.5 lbs.
Pad weight 2.3 lbs.
Total corner brake components 37.8 lbs.

Essex Competition Front Big Brake Kit
Caliper and bracket 7.4 lbs.
Disc weight 17.6 lbs.
Pad weight 2.6 lbs.
Total corner brake components 27.6 lbs.

Unsprung weight savings per corner with front Essex /AP Racing Competition Kit= 10.2 lbs.
Total unsprung weight savings from nose of car= 20.4 lbs.


For an AutoX'r, it would be possibly worth doing the kit just for the weight savings alone, and the rest of the benefits would be gravy. To my knowledge, if you've already done lightweight wheels,tires, and suspension, there's really no other way to come close to shaving that much unsprung weight. Our Sprint big brake kit for the FT86 also saves 10 lbs. per corner, and some of our customers tell us they can actually feel a difference in how the car handles and steers after installing the kit.

Actually, I don't know how easy it is to shave 20 lbs. off the nose of the car period after you've done some of the very basics. Many of the basic weight reduction mods tend to pull weight from the rear of the car (exhaust, trunk panels, rear seat removal, etc.).

Anyway, I thought I'd share that weight data. It's pretty nuts when you hold the parts in your hands and feel the difference. The M3 front calipers in particular are like cinder blocks!
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