C/D Comparo vs. RS4 & C63.....

BMW M Power Mexico · 10-26-2007, 06:33 PM

M3 Wins.

0-60 in 4.3

A bit slower than the C63, a lot faster than the RS4. Much better handling than either.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...08-bmw-m3.html

Hans Delbruck · 10-26-2007, 07:04 PM

amazing ! M3 and C63 are both winners IMO!

Keto · 10-26-2007, 07:50 PM

Wow, he says the RS4 interior looks slightly dated compared to the other entries.

ZOMG the sky is falling ....

EDIT: keep reading Keto, he prefers the Audi to the "spaceship-console" M3.

EDIT: C63 463 lbs heavier than M3. GG.

swamp2 · 10-26-2007, 08:59 PM

Trumping the AMG in AMS, Autocar and now C&D as well.

Hats off BMW!

Not sure where you saw 4.3 seconds for the 0-60 they claimed "Roughly a half-second has been lopped off the previous M3’s time to 60 mph". The only previous time I could find on their web site was the 2003 that clocked a 4.5. I'm guessing this does not mean they got a 4.0?

Anyway great to hear the the old school single piston brakes offered better feel, less sponginess (fade - I think they meant from the context) and almost the same (slightly worse) stopping distance from 70mph.

Also very odd that the tides are turning on the Audi interior. Just like many of us have been saying it just looks a little "dated" although still does have very nice fit, finish and materials.

brandonlowe · 10-26-2007, 09:36 PM

The 4.3 to 60 for the M3 is listed on one of the PDFs in a sidebar .

Epacy · 10-26-2007, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandonlowe

The 4.3 to 60 for the M3 is listed on one of the PDFs in a sidebar .

Make sense too, since the E46 M3 widely accepted time was 4.8.

Mx3 · 10-26-2007, 10:00 PM

Now that's saying a lot going against some fierce competition.

This is a GREAT win for the M3.

swamp2 · 10-26-2007, 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brandonlowe

The 4.3 to 60 for the M3 is listed on one of the PDFs in a sidebar .

Thanks. Missed that because the pdf link at the bottom of the page on the M3 is linked to the C63 data sheet! Also the results were "hidden" by the link being called "powertrain". Ugh...

REP1KRR · 10-26-2007, 10:35 PM

The best statement in the article.

...but next to the C63 and RS 4, this latest M3 offers the purest, least diluted, most involving, and best-in-class driver-and-machine relationship.

enigma · 10-26-2007, 10:43 PM

It will be nice when DCT gets here and the car is no longer held back by the out dated manual tansmission. I suspect that is the big reason the C63 won the acceleration tests.

swamp2 · 10-26-2007, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enigma

It will be nice when DCT gets here and the car is no longer held back by the out dated manual tansmission. I suspect that is the big reason the C63 won the acceleration tests.

Well the M-DCT is going to help a lot but I am not sure it is enough to surpass the big 6.3l AMG. That is one nice automatic box on it. It is going to be very close though (according to my simulations...shhhh

).

JEllis · 10-26-2007, 11:40 PM

I never had a doubt

chitown08 · 10-27-2007, 12:47 AM

M3 FTW!!

doesn't C&D have a BMW bias tho?...

Big Windy · 10-27-2007, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mx3

Now that's saying a lot going against some fierce competition.

This is a GREAT win for the M3.

I'm with you on this one...but it'll be an even greater win in another year when the new RS4 comes out.

EDIT: Also, won't it be a bit more "fair" when the M3 sedan is up against these two? after all, its one coupe against two four-doors. I'm not sure the M3 sedan can do it against these two as well as the coupe.

Just_me · 10-27-2007, 02:22 AM

Too bad the M3 didnt have the optional 19". Those 18" isnt goodlooking.

mkoesel · 10-28-2007, 11:11 AM

Great review!

rick berry · 10-28-2007, 04:11 PM

The C63 is an autobahn speed machine first, handling and fun to drive second. The M3 is the opposite. Fun is the first priority, along with great handling. The speed is also there, but it is more balanced. Great review.

masmole · 10-28-2007, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swamp2

Well the M-DCT is going to help a lot but I am not sure it is enough to surpass the big 6.3l AMG. That is one nice automatic box on it. It is going to be very close though (according to my simulations...shhhh

).

I agree. MB's 7-speed autobox is a great tranny that shifts faster than any automatic I've ever driven. I've had this transmission twice on my former SLK55 and current ML63, and the version on the C63 has been tweaked even further to shift even faster. If this transmission can enable my 5200 lb truck with essentially the same engine as the C63 from 0-60 in 4.5 secs, I have no doubts about the 3.9 sec figure C&D has recorded for the C63. Unfortunately, it won't turn as well as the M3 and its sheer weight keeps it from being enough fun to drive except in a straight line.

oneginee · 10-29-2007, 12:50 AM

A lot faster than RS4 ? not really at 60mph

60mph
C63: 3.9
M3: 4.3 +0.4
RS4: 4.5 +0.6

100mph
C63: 9.2
M3: 9.8 +0.6
RS4: 11.3 +2.1

The M3 with DCT will not beat C63 just look at the torque differences + 6.2l engine versus 4.0l ( no praise for the C63 with such a big engine)

Not a fair comparison just like the 07 RS4 sedan beat the E46 coupe M3, the 08 E92 M3 coupe beat the 07 RS4 sedan.

It's likely the 08 RS4 will get back ahead.

enigma · 10-29-2007, 12:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneginee

The M3 with DCT will not beat C63 just look at the torque differences + 6.2l engine versus 4.0l ( no praise for the C63 with such a big engine)

It may or may not win but torque doesn't have jack to do with it... If it did explain why at the drag strip my M3 and my firends z28 turned identical times with pretty much the same hp/lbs. If your torque theory were right, he would have kicked my but.

0-100 is a 0.6s difference. Now given each shift in a manual takes about 0.2-0.4s, remove 2 or 3 of those and guess what. Its too close to call. Does the car do 100 in 3rd or 4th?

Automatics are good at drag racing for a reason. DCT should combine that upside with the control and efficiency of a manual.

mkoesel · 10-29-2007, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oneginee

The M3 with DCT will not beat C63 just look at the torque differences + 6.2l engine versus 4.0l ( no praise for the C63 with such a big engine)

The Merc needs the torque to haul around the extra 400lbs.

Quote:

It's likely the 08 RS4 will get back ahead.

08 RS4 is identical to 07 RS4.

B8 RS4 is still vaporware ATM.

mkoesel · 10-29-2007, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cant Win !!!

These tests really arent fair for audi.. The mags should hold off till the rs5 drops..

Plenty of mags have tested the RS4 against the outgoing M3 and C55. Its perfectly fair. You test against what is available at the time.

No one has even a spy shot of a B8 RS4 or RS5. The RS5 is realistically two years off at best, and potentially (going by past history) could be five years off.

10-26-2007, 06:33 PM	#1
BMW M Power Mexico Private First Class Drives: '09 E90 M3, '11 1M Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: South Posts: 188 iTrader: (0)	C/D Comparo vs. RS4 & C63..... M3 Wins. 0-60 in 4.3 A bit slower than the C63, a lot faster than the RS4. Much better handling than either. http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...08-bmw-m3.html
	Tweet

10-26-2007, 08:59 PM	#4
swamp2 Major General Drives: E92 M3 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: San Diego, CA USA Posts: 8,315 iTrader: (1)	Nice Trumping the AMG in AMS, Autocar and now C&D as well. Hats off BMW! Not sure where you saw 4.3 seconds for the 0-60 they claimed "Roughly a half-second has been lopped off the previous M3’s time to 60 mph". The only previous time I could find on their web site was the 2003 that clocked a 4.5. I'm guessing this does not mean they got a 4.0? Anyway great to hear the the old school single piston brakes offered better feel, less sponginess (fade - I think they meant from the context) and almost the same (slightly worse) stopping distance from 70mph. Also very odd that the tides are turning on the Audi interior. Just like many of us have been saying it just looks a little "dated" although still does have very nice fit, finish and materials.

10-26-2007, 11:40 PM	#12
JEllis Brigadier General Drives: E36 M3, 997S Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: San Diego Posts: 3,368 iTrader: (1)	I never had a doubt __________________

10-28-2007, 11:11 AM	#16
mkoesel Moderator Drives: IB/PS M-DCT E93 M3 Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Canton, MI Posts: 11,730 iTrader: (1)	Great review! __________________ 2008 Interlagos Blue E93 M3 - M-DCT 2011 Salsa Red Jetta TDI Sportwagen - DSG

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10-26-2007, 07:04 PM	#2
Hans Delbruck BMW & MB - friends in my garage Drives: C63, 135i, 1959 BUICK Join Date: May 2005 Location: Huntington Beach, CA Posts: 1,284 iTrader: (0)	amazing ! M3 and C63 are both winners IMO!

10-26-2007, 07:50 PM	#3
Keto Major Drives: 550i M-sport AW Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: N'awlins Posts: 1,089 iTrader: (1)	Wow, he says the RS4 interior looks slightly dated compared to the other entries. ZOMG the sky is falling .... EDIT: keep reading Keto, he prefers the Audi to the "spaceship-console" M3. EDIT: C63 463 lbs heavier than M3. GG.

10-26-2007, 09:36 PM	#5
brandonlowe Private Drives: 04 M3 SMG Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Jackson, TN area Posts: 61 iTrader: (1)	The 4.3 to 60 for the M3 is listed on one of the PDFs in a sidebar .

10-26-2007, 10:00 PM	#7
Mx3 M Drives: 08.SpaceGry.DCT.19's,Tech,+ Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Northern CA Posts: 210 iTrader: (0)	Now that's saying a lot going against some fierce competition. This is a GREAT win for the M3.

10-26-2007, 10:35 PM	#9
REP1KRR My other car is a Scooter'ia Drives: M3 Saloon Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 1,162 iTrader: (5)	The best statement in the article. ...but next to the C63 and RS 4, this latest M3 offers the purest, least diluted, most involving, and best-in-class driver-and-machine relationship.

10-26-2007, 10:43 PM	#10
enigma Captain Drives: E92 M3 and Elise Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Land of the Microchip Posts: 689 iTrader: (0)	It will be nice when DCT gets here and the car is no longer held back by the out dated manual tansmission. I suspect that is the big reason the C63 won the acceleration tests.

10-27-2007, 12:47 AM	#13
chitown08 Second Lieutenant Drives: 2009 M3 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Chicago Posts: 277 iTrader: (0)	M3 FTW!! doesn't C&D have a BMW bias tho?...

10-27-2007, 02:22 AM	#15
Just_me Lieutenant Drives: RWD Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 561 iTrader: (0)	Too bad the M3 didnt have the optional 19". Those 18" isnt goodlooking.

10-28-2007, 04:11 PM	#17
rick berry Private First Class Drives: 2012 M3 DCT CP/ 2011 750li H Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: marshall texas Posts: 178 iTrader: (0)	The C63 is an autobahn speed machine first, handling and fun to drive second. The M3 is the opposite. Fun is the first priority, along with great handling. The speed is also there, but it is more balanced. Great review.

10-29-2007, 12:50 AM	#19
oneginee Lieutenant Drives: SL55 AMG Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: NC Posts: 412 iTrader: (0)	A lot faster than RS4 ? not really at 60mph 60mph C63: 3.9 M3: 4.3 +0.4 RS4: 4.5 +0.6 100mph C63: 9.2 M3: 9.8 +0.6 RS4: 11.3 +2.1 The M3 with DCT will not beat C63 just look at the torque differences + 6.2l engine versus 4.0l ( no praise for the C63 with such a big engine) Not a fair comparison just like the 07 RS4 sedan beat the E46 coupe M3, the 08 E92 M3 coupe beat the 07 RS4 sedan. It's likely the 08 RS4 will get back ahead.