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      10-27-2007, 05:26 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynotony View Post
Here is a cockpit video of the car running a 7:38

I was hoping M division would do a promotional video for the M3 in this manner
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      10-27-2007, 08:51 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
Coaster and others with an interest in this achievement please have a look at the excellent work by lucid (and a couple minutes from me) to show that this GT-R time is what we call in science an "outlier". I'd be willing to place a bet with anyone that one or more of my 4 hypothesis in this link below are true.
I'm calling BS on this line of reasoning until we know the conditions of the test. Nissan may simply have build a proper suspension for the car (unlike BMW and Porsche) and put really good tires on it (unlike most supercars).

Don't dismiss a result just because its not the result you expected.
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      10-27-2007, 11:20 PM   #47
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Not even close

Quote:
Originally Posted by enigma View Post
I'm calling BS on this line of reasoning until we know the conditions of the test. Nissan may simply have build a proper suspension for the car (unlike BMW and Porsche) and put really good tires on it (unlike most supercars).

Don't dismiss a result just because its not the result you expected.
Debate now spanning multiple threads...

My full reply to you is over there. In short a proper suspension is not nearly enough of an explanation to explain the difference.

As far as a result I don't like - that is completely uncalled for. I really like this car and very much appreciate the amazing engineering it embodies. I have already commended the lap time as a great accomplishment. However, all that being said I will still stick to my motto - you can not argue with the physics.
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      10-28-2007, 04:07 AM   #48
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Don't transmissions mess with your "can't mess with physics" calculations? Take a look at that GT-R video again lapping the Nordschleife. That transmission...see how its shifting? I mean just listen to the thing.

I'm certain that is contributing to its stellar lap time ^_^
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      10-28-2007, 02:37 PM   #49
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Yes

Quote:
Originally Posted by ndahbar View Post
Don't transmissions mess with your "can't mess with physics" calculations? Take a look at that GT-R video again lapping the Nordschleife. That transmission...see how its shifting? I mean just listen to the thing.

I'm certain that is contributing to its stellar lap time ^_^
Absolutely. I estimate a good DCT could contribute about 5 to maybe 10 full seconds on an 8 minute track vs a MT. When I run some acceleration simulations with CarTest I will use DCT type shift times <.05 seconds (despite Nissans official stats on shift times .2-.5 seconds - totally wrong). I have not run and simulatons yet becaue you need a lot of acceleration times to compare and I have only seen a 0-60 figure.
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      12-09-2007, 05:07 PM   #50
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7:50 is the official time from Sportauto. Again not a huge surprise, factory aces are way faster than Horst. Either way this nicely puts the 7:38 time in perspective.

Original link on this forum with som discussion here.

Also for those of you that remember the fun regression analysis thread here is my take on this 10-15 seconds of the amount that the car was an outlier in that analysis due to the driver, the other 10-15 seconds due to the tires being a semi-race (but street legal) compound. After these two facts the time makes perfect sense with the regression!
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      12-09-2007, 05:27 PM   #51
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Wow, you are really hung up on this one...
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      12-09-2007, 05:51 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
7:50 is the official time from Sportauto. Again not a huge surprise, factory aces are way faster than Horst. Either way this nicely puts the 7:38 time in perspective.

Original link on this forum with som discussion here.

Also for those of you that remember the fun regression analysis thread here is my take on this 10-15 seconds of the amount that the car was an outlier in that analysis due to the driver, the other 10-15 seconds due to the tires being a semi-race (but street legal) compound. After these two facts the time makes perfect sense with the regression!
Not that new: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...85#post1722985


Best regards, south
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      12-09-2007, 06:03 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Epacy View Post
Wow, you are really hung up on this one...
Well, it does kind of prove that, as one member suggested in the regression thread, the GTR is not a UFO, and that we don't have to be concerned about Martians sucking our brains out.
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      12-09-2007, 06:13 PM   #54
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Honestly, I couldn't care less if the GTR had a 6:04. It looks like something straight out of 2 Fast, 2 Furious. It's a boy-racer car with zero class and design fidelity.
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      12-09-2007, 06:40 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcellere View Post
Honestly, I couldn't care less if the GTR had a 6:04. It looks like something straight out of 2 Fast, 2 Furious. It's a boy-racer car with zero class and design fidelity.

A bit harsh.

I might not like the interior design or should I say the lack of it but I can't knock the technical achievement that Nissan have done with this car, they have produced a car which is technically more advanced than any current BMW with more performance, will out handle any current BMW and yet still costs less than BMW's cheapest M car.

No I might ever want or buy one but this is a seriously monumental car that proves without a shadow of a doubt the Japanese can built a car to equal the best from Europe and by this I don't mean BMW, I mean Porsche and Ferrari, the two greatest sportscar manufacturers.
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      12-09-2007, 06:47 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcellere View Post
Honestly, I couldn't care less if the GTR had a 6:04. It looks like something straight out of 2 Fast, 2 Furious. It's a boy-racer car with zero class and design fidelity.
1+ Not very stylish if you are into the look of the BMW.
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      12-09-2007, 07:40 PM   #57
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GT-R design

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Originally Posted by BMW3R View Post
1+ Not very stylish if you are into the look of the BMW.
I'm getting but IMO the GT-R is not about being stylish: it well reflects the design ethic as a purpose-built piece of high-tech go-fast machinery. It's menacing, has design language that is consistent w/ its own heritage (those signature taillights for e.g.) while being brutally, purposefully modern, like a stealthy fighter - ie, a F-22 is not as balanced/pretty as a F-14, IMO, but the former is thoroughly modern in that form is more determined by function, not aesthetics.

So the GT-R works for me in that frame / context while it's not at all beautiful. Nor was it meant to be. If we spoke in English w/ more genders (as in German) the GT-R wouldn't be female in gender - it's neuter!
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Last edited by Voltigeur; 12-09-2007 at 08:33 PM. Reason: erratum
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      12-09-2007, 08:24 PM   #58
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I think it's hot. Yeah, it's a litttle ricer, but not too much, in my opinion. It has a raw presence to it. The driving experience, I'm sure will be thrilling.
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      12-09-2007, 08:44 PM   #59
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Quote:
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I think it's hot. Yeah, it's a litttle ricer, but not too much, in my opinion. It has a raw presence to it. The driving experience, I'm sure will be thrilling.
Mate, I would be thrilled to bits to have my arse in ANY of a M3 / GT-R / 911 / RS4 / R8 / 8C ... on the Nordschleife . I'm sure you get my drift.

My medium-term goal is to take delivery in Bayern and get over to the 'Ring as fast as the A9 , A99, A5 then A61 will take me
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      12-09-2007, 10:07 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lucid View Post
Well, it does kind of prove that, as one member suggested in the regression thread, the GTR is not a UFO, and that we don't have to be concerned about Martians sucking our brains out.
+1. That was such a heated debate with all of the GT-R fans (and fanboys) thinking the GT-R was magic or something. Given it's power to weight it really is not that fantasitic. Clearly THEY HAVE NOT reinvented the sports car. This also gives an interesting data point to the M3. BMW with a hot shoe factory driver will be able to get the M3 round the Ring well south of 8:00!

@South: I know it is old news but that is one of the biggest problems with news - no one follows up the headlines (the headline being 7:38) with the analysis (courtesy of my idea and lucids excellent execution) then finally bringing it full circle with the SA time and an analysis of that. Don't you wish TV news had such follow through!

@leakybimmer: I don't understand your cryptic posts and butting in to every little discussion with some BS off the cuff comment about me. Say what you have to say, say it in a straight forward afashion and say to "to my face" (as much as you can do that on the internet...). Otherwise put a cork in it!
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      12-09-2007, 11:56 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
7:50 is the official time from Sportauto. Again not a huge surprise, factory aces are way faster than Horst. Either way this nicely puts the 7:38 time in perspective.

Original link on this forum with som discussion here.

Also for those of you that remember the fun regression analysis thread here is my take on this 10-15 seconds of the amount that the car was an outlier in that analysis due to the driver, the other 10-15 seconds due to the tires being a semi-race (but street legal) compound. After these two facts the time makes perfect sense with the regression!
is this the official time or the one they ran with the test mule cars a while ago? i remember on the run with the test mule the track was wet at some parts and they pulled a 7:50 or so. can anyone confirm this is the official sport auto time with the production car? link to article? Hockenheim laptime?

Last edited by jworms; 12-10-2007 at 12:17 AM.
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      12-10-2007, 03:30 AM   #62
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The official SportAuto time is 7:50. There was a post about it in the General Forum.
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      12-10-2007, 06:13 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swamp2 View Post
@South: I know it is old news but that is one of the biggest problems with news - no one follows up the headlines (the headline being 7:38) with the analysis (courtesy of my idea and lucids excellent execution) then finally bringing it full circle with the SA time and an analysis of that. Don't you wish TV news had such follow through!
You're absolutely right here. Just wanted to point out that this isn't a fully "official" SportAuto time since they haven't published/done their Supertest on the GT-R yet. Horst von Saurma just drove a preproduction car for some laps.
Anyway I'm afraid that these people won't post here and say: "Hey, you're right, we were jumping on this wagon too early." It's just like news: Everybody watches the "breaking news", nobody the revocation.


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      12-10-2007, 06:14 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jworms View Post
is this the official time or the one they ran with the test mule cars a while ago? i remember on the run with the test mule the track was wet at some parts and they pulled a 7:50 or so. can anyone confirm this is the official sport auto time with the production car? link to article? Hockenheim laptime?
It's the latter. They haven't done a official test yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateBMW View Post
The official SportAuto time is 7:50. There was a post about it in the General Forum.
No, see above.


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      12-10-2007, 09:34 AM   #65
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Speaking of fan boys, the GT-R's laps are fully documented, picked apart and hashed over. We know it is faster than a 911TT no matter whose numbers you use.

Where have we seen ANYTHING about the M3 other than a few speculative quotes? BMW is even taking orders sans pricing!

None of the GT-R preview and review articles question the performance, imho where it may fall flat is in its everyday usability. I think they might have produced the Nissan 928 GTS. Fast, heavy, and finicky.
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      12-10-2007, 09:37 AM   #66
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Quote:
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Clearly THEY HAVE NOT reinvented the sports car.
Errr, sorry, no one was talking about reinventing the sports car. The talk has always been 911TT performance with an M3 price tag.
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