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      11-23-2013, 09:03 PM   #1
phecht
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M4 or Porsche 911 997 GT3

Hey guys,
I'm in the market for a car around $75,000-$80,000 and was wondering what you guys would recommend from experience. It is going to be my daily driver and I am going to keep it for many years to come so I need reliability too without going over board with repair costs. I want to track it perhaps 2-5 times a year and potentially take it on long rides when the need arises. I'v been looking strongly at the Porsche 911 997 GT3 or the new M4. For some reason I am stuck on getting a German car. The Audi TTRS and RS5 have crossed my mind but they seem too heavy and not enough trackablity and the Mercedes C63's styling isn't the best and I also don't like the tail happy characteristics. Perhaps someone here could tell me differently though. I don't really need crazy space because I am usually the only one driving in it. The more track ready GT3 seems to be what I'm leaning towards but I have't ever taken that car on long trips. I currently have a 944 and have used that to drive over a few hundred mile rides and seem to have no complaints on stiffness or backaches. Would the GT3 be similar to this? Your opinions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks in advance.
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      11-23-2013, 09:12 PM   #2
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You think a GT3 as a daily driver in Connecticut is a good idea? Doesn't it snow there in the winter?
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      11-23-2013, 09:34 PM   #3
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The ttrs weighs 32xx lbs

The gt3 is very very tail happy, and tricky to drive quickly but very capable

All those choices look good.

My advice is to wait until the m4 is officially unveiled in January then decide
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      11-23-2013, 10:17 PM   #4
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Meh rather have a Prius or a Lamborghini or something
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      11-23-2013, 10:52 PM   #5
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How about forget about both and get a loaded C7.
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      11-23-2013, 10:53 PM   #6
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Meh rather have a Prius or a Lamborghini or something
Rumor: Toyota to add twin-turbos to the Prius and go from 13 secs 0-60 to 10 secs. I read it on the Internet so it has to be true.
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      11-23-2013, 11:03 PM   #7
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OP a GT3 is a very desirable car for car enthusiasts. I don't think that car will meet your needs as far as long road trips or DD that won't grow tired of.

However it all depends in geographic location for you and your lifestyle as far as tolerances and needs for DD duties.

There is alot to be had in that price range. Although the GT3 is a strong vehicle, it is a street legal race car. Parts will be expensive, but that is typical for any German car past warranty.

Although I have not owned a P car. I have owned a slew of RS, AMG and now currently and for the last 4 years my 2010 E90 M3 and a 2011 X5M that I just traded my Audi TTRS for. The TTRS was for DD duties and to keep miles of the M3 because I have no intentions of getting rid of this car and I drive a lot for work.

The TTRS did hold up well in Boston as a DD for 16 months, but the tech in it was horrible (NAV, Bluetooth, radio/Bose, etc). It was an incredibly fast car when modified. Very very quick and tons of torque. And no it is not heavy. Probably the lightest car minus the R8 GT. mine weighed in with fluids at under 3300.

There are a lot of options out there. My advice is go and test drive. I love my X5M for DD duties. Will it pass M5/M3s on the track, no. Nor do I need it to (but it would be impressive).

Go and drive and see what you like. Anything with a 2014 sticker you are paying top dollar.

Personally, if you have the ability to wait it out I would until the M3/M4 comes out and goes through an LCI.

Or you could bye a 30k DD (mid mileage E39 M5). Old tech but amazing to drive. Spend the rest on a track car you can mod and improve on once you perfect your track technique.
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      11-23-2013, 11:31 PM   #8
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I have a gt3 and I would get an m4 or current m3 over it for a daily! How about a gtr?
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      11-24-2013, 02:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthShoreM3 View Post
OP a GT3 is a very desirable car for car enthusiasts. I don't think that car will meet your needs as far as long road trips or DD that won't grow tired of.

However it all depends in geographic location for you and your lifestyle as far as tolerances and needs for DD duties.

There is alot to be had in that price range. Although the GT3 is a strong vehicle, it is a street legal race car. Parts will be expensive, but that is typical for any German car past warranty.

Although I have not owned a P car. I have owned a slew of RS, AMG and now currently and for the last 4 years my 2010 E90 M3 and a 2011 X5M that I just traded my Audi TTRS for. The TTRS was for DD duties and to keep miles of the M3 because I have no intentions of getting rid of this car and I drive a lot for work.

The TTRS did hold up well in Boston as a DD for 16 months, but the tech in it was horrible (NAV, Bluetooth, radio/Bose, etc). It was an incredibly fast car when modified. Very very quick and tons of torque. And no it is not heavy. Probably the lightest car minus the R8 GT. mine weighed in with fluids at under 3300.

There are a lot of options out there. My advice is go and test drive. I love my X5M for DD duties. Will it pass M5/M3s on the track, no. Nor do I need it to (but it would be impressive).

Go and drive and see what you like. Anything with a 2014 sticker you are paying top dollar.

Personally, if you have the ability to wait it out I would until the M3/M4 comes out and goes through an LCI.

Or you could bye a 30k DD (mid mileage E39 M5). Old tech but amazing to drive. Spend the rest on a track car you can mod and improve on once you perfect your track technique.
Maintenance on a GT3 is not bad at all. It is a street car first; a street car capable of repeated track duty. I could DD that car all day long. I don't because I do not want to add up crazy miles. GT3s are not any more tail happy than any contemporary 911. With nannies on it is not at all tail happy. Any 911 is excellent in the snow with the rear weight bias. Ground clearance is the issue. That said, why would anyone torture a GT3 in winter conditions.
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      11-24-2013, 06:55 PM   #10
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in my mind, the gt3 is a dream car and i would have no problem driving it daily except during the winter. torture a GT3 in winter conditions will scrap the front end and make it rust---NO WAY

this said, you need a second car if you plan to get a gt3. also the gt3 is a 2007-2008 at those price.

on the other side you could get a brand new bmw m4 that have some fantastic specs, weight, power, fixed caliper etc.

in my earth, i take the gt3 and a winter car, but the more logic decision is the bmw m4.

it's a very very difficult decision to take.
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      11-24-2013, 09:03 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
The ttrs weighs 32xx lbs

The gt3 is very very tail happy, and tricky to drive quickly but very capable

All those choices look good.

My advice is to wait until the m4 is officially unveiled in January then decide
GT3 is not tail happy at all. It has incredible suspension geometry that make it very sure footed and planted. That part of why EVO picked it over the 458 italia saying it made the italia feel edgy and harder to control. Even a GT2 makes the italia feel this way. I have experienced both as I have a friend who owns them and would tell you flat out the GT2/GT3 are some of the best set up cars. While they are a bit more difficult should you hit the absolute limits of the car, owners need to put in the time to learn to drive the platform, and its surely more rewarding than anything else out there. At the same time, you'd need to drive most other cars at 10/10ths to duplicate the limits of a GT car at 7/10th, except the GT3 has so much more to push where the other cars don't because its limits are just so much higher in the GT3/2.
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      11-25-2013, 10:04 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing View Post
GT3 is not tail happy at all. It has incredible suspension geometry that make it very sure footed and planted. That part of why EVO picked it over the 458 italia saying it made the italia feel edgy and harder to control. Even a GT2 makes the italia feel this way. I have experienced both as I have a friend who owns them and would tell you flat out the GT2/GT3 are some of the best set up cars. While they are a bit more difficult should you hit the absolute limits of the car, owners need to put in the time to learn to drive the platform, and its surely more rewarding than anything else out there. At the same time, you'd need to drive most other cars at 10/10ths to duplicate the limits of a GT car at 7/10th, except the GT3 has so much more to push where the other cars don't because its limits are just so much higher in the GT3/2.
depends what you mean by tail happy.

it certainly does have a ton of grip, no doubt about that. but when cornering and getting on the gas, you need to be really careful. its easy to get throttle lift oversteer, and you need to be very smooth when driving them because if you get the back end light, the car is going to come around on you.

like you said, a car with very high limits, but needs a good driver to exploit them. challenging, yet rewarding car. just saying, its not as easy to drive as an m3 for example. its a tricky car that loves to oversteer, but very capable.
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      11-25-2013, 02:07 PM   #13
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I was saying that the GT3 in New England winters is most likely not the best option to go for. Believe me if I could own one I would. And hopefully will in the near future. But certainly not in the northeast as a DD.

If I lived in warmer climates most likely I would drive it quite a bit.
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      11-25-2013, 05:57 PM   #14
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Quote:
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depends what you mean by tail happy.

it certainly does have a ton of grip, no doubt about that. but when cornering and getting on the gas, you need to be really careful. its easy to get throttle lift oversteer, and you need to be very smooth when driving them because if you get the back end light, the car is going to come around on you.

like you said, a car with very high limits, but needs a good driver to exploit them. challenging, yet rewarding car. just saying, its not as easy to drive as an m3 for example. its a tricky car that loves to oversteer, but very capable.
They only come around on you if you turn OFF all the nannies, PSM and TC and drive like an idiot.

My .2 GT3 felt like it was on rails and could do no wrong. The grip is beyond comprehension.
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      11-25-2013, 06:00 PM   #15
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Considering the M4 is not even released….rather difficult to make any sort of comparison.
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      11-25-2013, 10:58 PM   #16
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Quote:
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depends what you mean by tail happy.

it certainly does have a ton of grip, no doubt about that. but when cornering and getting on the gas, you need to be really careful. its easy to get throttle lift oversteer, and you need to be very smooth when driving them because if you get the back end light, the car is going to come around on you.

like you said, a car with very high limits, but needs a good driver to exploit them. challenging, yet rewarding car. just saying, its not as easy to drive as an m3 for example. its a tricky car that loves to oversteer, but very capable.
911s prior to the 991 needed to be slow in and FAST out. They have so much grip in corners you can get on the throttle much earlier and let the rear grip propel you out of the corner. Yes you need more talent if you are 10/10th but again a 911 at 7/10ths is still competing at levels most other cars need to be at 10/10ths to even come close to, yet the 911 isn't anywhere close to its max.
Any 400+ hp car with all traction off is going to be hard to catch unless you're very talented, that goes for the M3 as well.
The M3 while easier to drive will NEVER thrill you or reward you, or put down times in the same game as a 911 given equal drivers. The M3 also masks mistakes of the driver and most people never learn to truly drive well because of it. The Cayman S is a car that is easier to drive than an M3 but gives you the thrills of a 911.
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      11-26-2013, 08:34 AM   #17
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911s prior to the 991 needed to be slow in and FAST out. They have so much grip in corners you can get on the throttle much earlier and let the rear grip propel you out of the corner. Yes you need more talent if you are 10/10th but again a 911 at 7/10ths is still competing at levels most other cars need to be at 10/10ths to even come close to, yet the 911 isn't anywhere close to its max.
Any 400+ hp car with all traction off is going to be hard to catch unless you're very talented, that goes for the M3 as well.
The M3 while easier to drive will NEVER thrill you or reward you, or put down times in the same game as a 911 given equal drivers. The M3 also masks mistakes of the driver and most people never learn to truly drive well because of it. The Cayman S is a car that is easier to drive than an M3 but gives you the thrills of a 911.
agree with all that, except the part about the cayman only because ive only driven one on the street and not the track so I cant comment there.

the new 991 is a truly special car IMO. the gt3 is going to be stunning. one day maybe haha
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      11-26-2013, 08:42 AM   #18
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agree with all that, except the part about the cayman only because ive only driven one on the street and not the track so I cant comment there.

the new 991 is a truly special car IMO. the gt3 is going to be stunning. one day maybe haha
I'll post a review once mine arrives. 9-10 month wait . Hoping the RS specs are killer and the price doen't get too crazy. I have a opp to switch orders once the RS facts are clear.
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      11-26-2013, 09:31 AM   #19
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I'll post a review once mine arrives. 9-10 month wait . Hoping the RS specs are killer and the price doen't get too crazy. I have a opp to switch orders once the RS facts are clear.
I heard about the delays, that sucks

I cant imagine needing an RS over this car, especially if you plan to drive it on the street

the fact that this car seems so streetable and so massively capable on the track is awesome.

the ride quality and improvements to the road noise and build quality between the 997 and 991 S models is HUGE. the gt3 should be brilliant
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      11-26-2013, 12:13 PM   #20
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997 GT3 is a better car but the M4 is a better DD. I'd buy a 997 GT3 as a weekend car and a Bentley or Jag. as a DD.
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      11-26-2013, 12:15 PM   #21
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GT3 daily= def yes.


I would consider a Ferarri 360 as a daily too as they are getting cheap and not bad to maintain.
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      11-26-2013, 12:45 PM   #22
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if life is to short then get the GT3. if life is long than get something like a GT3.

might be tough choice.
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