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      01-26-2014, 01:11 PM   #1
1fastdoc
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Akra evo quieter with Evolve tune?

I'm not referring to the cold start but rather typical low rpm city driving on a warm engine.

After getting the Akra Evo tune a friend with an F430 called my car obnoxious. Made me smile. After I loaded the Evolve tune the low rpm sound seemed more tame but I thought it was me. When he heard the car he asked me what I did because it sounded better (quieter).

So for those with Evolve or similar and Akra, do you think it's quieter?

Here's the real reason for asking: I have an engine whine that seems a lot louder lately. Loud enough to be bothersome when the radio is not on. The higher the rpms, the higher the pitch, although not actually louder. Comes on a 2500 rpm and gets drowned out by the engine at 4500 rpm. Another E92 owner heard me driving through a parking lot and at 20 feet away he stopped and came over to ask me if I had a blower. Car is stock except for Evo and Evolve ECU tune.

It's going to BMW tomorrow and I reverted the tune back to the 240E file. First thing I noticed is that the noise seems quieter, which I think is due to the exhaust being slightly louder. The whine isn't nearly as annoying as a result.

If my SA doesn't think much about the whine I'll put the tune back on there and let him hear it. (This is his old Evo exhaust and he had an ESS tune).

Any thoughts on the tune/quiet exhaust or the whine between 2500-4500 rpm?

Thanks guys. Honestly, I like having the radio off and the whine is enough to make me not enjoy the drive.
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      01-26-2014, 02:09 PM   #2
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Your friend with an F430 is the definition of obnoxious.

Get new friends. The akra evo system is a monster.

Not sure tuning will do much for sound output unless we're talking about deleting the cold start procedure.
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      01-26-2014, 03:01 PM   #3
1fastdoc
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I'm talking about the sound output in the 2-4k rpm range at operating temp.

I've heard many people say the Akra system is relatively quiet and I though they were all deaf. Now that it's tuned, I understand. At WOT it still has that great howl but at low rpm and part throttle it seems quieter (or rather the whine is a lot more noticeable).

The thing that stands out is that someone else noticed it was quieter the first time he heard it after it was tuned (he didn't know I had done anything). I don't know if that's an Evolve thing or it's all the tunes. I thought it was just me until he said something and until I de-tuned it yesterday and confirmed that it is now louder.
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      01-26-2014, 06:09 PM   #4
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A tune can change sound. How much it changes idk
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      01-27-2014, 05:53 AM   #5
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This is actually true. Our tune for the Akra has alterations that ensure power isn't lost (due to the design of the Akra) at points of the RPM range. Its now not throwing fuel straight through into the exhaust
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      01-28-2014, 12:24 AM   #6
1fastdoc
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Got a little worried today. My SA, who sold me his Akra and encouraged a tune other than Dinan just became the Service Manager at Mini. Today I met his replacement and was a little worried about bringing up the tune issue. Turns out he's a huge car guy with a '13 GT500 among other high performance cars.

He and the M tech did a great job of explaining the whine noise and reassured me it's normal.

Question for Paul, Sal or Imran:

What got the car there was an error for the brake wear sensor. They spent a lot of time trying to clear the code but it kept coming back. Also, the car thought I had 300,000 miles on the brakes!!

Eventually they replaced the left front AND rear brake wear sensors. Problem solved. At the time it had the 240E software from Evolve. He said they had to "reprogram" it and now it's fine.

So should I apply the tune you sent me or should I use the Evolve software to read the DME file, copy it and send it to you for an adjusted/updated tune?
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      01-28-2014, 01:13 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1fastdoc View Post
... He and the M tech did a great job of explaining the whine noise and reassured me it's normal...
Mind sharing the explaination with us?
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      01-28-2014, 03:13 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1fastdoc View Post
Got a little worried today. My SA, who sold me his Akra and encouraged a tune other than Dinan just became the Service Manager at Mini. Today I met his replacement and was a little worried about bringing up the tune issue. Turns out he's a huge car guy with a '13 GT500 among other high performance cars.

He and the M tech did a great job of explaining the whine noise and reassured me it's normal.

Question for Paul, Sal or Imran:

What got the car there was an error for the brake wear sensor. They spent a lot of time trying to clear the code but it kept coming back. Also, the car thought I had 300,000 miles on the brakes!!

Eventually they replaced the left front AND rear brake wear sensors. Problem solved. At the time it had the 240E software from Evolve. He said they had to "reprogram" it and now it's fine.

So should I apply the tune you sent me or should I use the Evolve software to read the DME file, copy it and send it to you for an adjusted/updated tune?
More info on the whining noise from them please.
For the tuning, take another read of the dme and email to me please.
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      01-28-2014, 11:48 AM   #9
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Regarding the whine, the tech was talking about the camshaft gear and how some of them have a more noticeable whine than others. He used a bunch of other terms but many were beyond my scope of knowledge, especially at 7:15am when I need to get to work. Maybe it's all bs, I don't know. It sounded plausible and while I don't know jack about the S65 I can take apart and rebuild a Ford 302 so I do have some baseline understanding.

Detuned, it is subtle. With the tune, below 2500 the rumble of the exhaust drowns it out and above 4500 the howl of the exhaust drowns it out. It's that quiet band where the whine is particularly annoying after it was tuned.

On the sheet it also added aftermarket exhaust and that it may result in changes in resonance, for whatever that's worth.

More importantly, it's a documented complaint should a catastrophic failure occur.

Sal, I'll get a new DME file tonight and email it out.
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      01-30-2014, 01:40 AM   #10
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Below 2k RPM you pretty much just hear camshaft gears. Between 2k and 4k it is all exhaust, especially if you have a bassy exhaust like the Akrapovic. Above 4k, it is induction noise and perhaps some exhaust depending on how loud/high pitched your exhaust is.

Did the Evolve tune eliminate the droning/bass at 2k and 3k RPM or are you referring to something else?
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      01-30-2014, 06:45 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hujan View Post
Below 2k RPM you pretty much just hear camshaft gears. Between 2k and 4k it is all exhaust, especially if you have a bassy exhaust like the Akrapovic. Above 4k, it is induction noise and perhaps some exhaust depending on how loud/high pitched your exhaust is.

Did the Evolve tune eliminate the droning/bass at 2k and 3k RPM or are you referring to something else?
Tuned or not, below 2500 rpm it's the bassy exhaust drone although the term "drone" really isn't appropriate. 2500 to 4k rpm it is exhaust with a little whine when stock, but whine with a little exhaust when tuned. That range really is quieter with the tune.

The sound is a little quieter at 4k to 6k too but by then it's loud enough that I don't notice the whine as much. It's still there though. That is also greatly dependent on the throttle too. At WOT it's loud both ways although it does sound different tuned. Hard to qualify that any further though.
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      01-30-2014, 07:03 PM   #12
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The tune will 100% make the Akrapovic quieter.

Changes in valve overlap and ignition timing have profound effects on exhaust noise.

On WOT also it will sound different to as you say and again this is predominantly changes to valve overlap and therefore valve opening and closing times.
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      01-30-2014, 11:13 PM   #13
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So much worries and unecessary headaches using aftermarket exhausts. I've been considering it, but I do like the OEM exhaust. Not even considering what 5 grants can buy you instead. Sometimes i wonder if people who like loud exhausts need to bring some kind of trouble to a perfectly well designed car.
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      01-31-2014, 09:19 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsweet View Post
So much worries and unecessary headaches using aftermarket exhausts. I've been considering it, but I do like the OEM exhaust. Not even considering what 5 grants can buy you instead. Sometimes i wonder if people who like loud exhausts need to bring some kind of trouble to a perfectly well designed car.
Call it good engineering if you will but I think the factory exhaust is stupid quiet on a car putting out 400 hp.

We have M3's because we like the feel of the car. Something made you choose it over a Merc or a Camaro.

Some of us also have a certain sound in mind for the exhaust. I had the opportunity to pick up the Evo system at 2/3 the price and I took it. I love the sound and I wouldn't change it.
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      01-31-2014, 10:17 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve View Post
The tune will 100% make the Akrapovic quieter.

Changes in valve overlap and ignition timing have profound effects on exhaust noise.

On WOT also it will sound different to as you say and again this is predominantly changes to valve overlap and therefore valve opening and closing times.
This is very interesting. Do you have any before/after sound clips, especially from inside the cabin?
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      01-31-2014, 12:25 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1fastdoc View Post
Call it good engineering if you will but I think the factory exhaust is stupid quiet on a car putting out 400 hp.

We have M3's because we like the feel of the car. Something made you choose it over a Merc or a Camaro.

Some of us also have a certain sound in mind for the exhaust. I had the opportunity to pick up the Evo system at 2/3 the price and I took it. I love the sound and I wouldn't change it.
I understand. To be honest I have been on the sidelines to buy a good exhaust and doing due diligence, making sure I've understood all possible implications. Only, the more I dig the less i am comfortable with what I'm reading. If I try to summarize major points:

- AE means you are not longer 100% sure dealer will honor the car factory warranty in case a major repair is needed. They might say it's fine now, but wait until the SM guy changes, etc... (My M3 is virgin new).

- AE is not street legal only legal on the racetrack. I do not want to have to deal with the worry of cops at every street corner forcing me to revert to stock at a time's notice to waive a fine (+labor cost)

- CEL issue. Some people see this as an opportunity for tuning. I don't, I refuse to tune my stock S65. I know there might be some electronic workaround but I do not like the idea of messing with or fooling the system.

- "AE failing smog test in 5 years". Don't know if this one is real.

- Heat shields around the diff have to be removed for AE install. Some people wrap the AE pipes in thermal material instead. Wrapping the heat source is not the same as protecting other parts from absorbing heat. That's a band aid fix and will run the exhaust even hotter.

-AE cost is ridiculous. Thinking what money can buy for that kind of dough, it's hard to justify rationally. Especially with all the above issue to deal with still.

-Cold start cycle with AE is obnoxious in early morning if you have neighbors. So you are forced to reprogram that off. The cold start cycle is for warming up the cats so they filter carbon emission efficiently as soon as possible. But some have said it has side benefit of heating up engine oil which when thinking about the engine bearings tolerance discussion is only a good thing to keep. This is a controversial point but needs to be mentioned.

Last edited by sunsweet; 01-31-2014 at 12:38 PM.
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      01-31-2014, 12:52 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hujan View Post
This is very interesting. Do you have any before/after sound clips, especially from inside the cabin?
Unfortunately no videos but it's all very normal.

Tuned cars sound crisper and cleaner. Well, the way we do it anyway.

When you have a rich running engine or where the fuel is not completely burnt under partial load the exhaust note will always sound deeper and heavier.
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      02-01-2014, 08:52 PM   #18
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I want a tune, but don't want it to make my akra more power :/
Maybe the new overrun burble feature will make up for it?
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      02-02-2014, 02:03 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsweet View Post
I understand. To be honest I have been on the sidelines to buy a good exhaust and doing due diligence, making sure I've understood all possible implications. Only, the more I dig the less i am comfortable with what I'm reading. If I try to summarize major points:

- AE means you are not longer 100% sure dealer will honor the car factory warranty in case a major repair is needed. They might say it's fine now, but wait until the SM guy changes, etc... (My M3 is virgin new).

- AE is not street legal only legal on the racetrack. I do not want to have to deal with the worry of cops at every street corner forcing me to revert to stock at a time's notice to waive a fine (+labor cost)

- CEL issue. Some people see this as an opportunity for tuning. I don't, I refuse to tune my stock S65. I know there might be some electronic workaround but I do not like the idea of messing with or fooling the system.

- "AE failing smog test in 5 years". Don't know if this one is real.

- Heat shields around the diff have to be removed for AE install. Some people wrap the AE pipes in thermal material instead. Wrapping the heat source is not the same as protecting other parts from absorbing heat. That's a band aid fix and will run the exhaust even hotter.

-AE cost is ridiculous. Thinking what money can buy for that kind of dough, it's hard to justify rationally. Especially with all the above issue to deal with still.

-Cold start cycle with AE is obnoxious in early morning if you have neighbors. So you are forced to reprogram that off. The cold start cycle is for warming up the cats so they filter carbon emission efficiently as soon as possible. But some have said it has side benefit of heating up engine oil which when thinking about the engine bearings tolerance discussion is only a good thing to keep. This is a controversial point but needs to be mentioned.
Fortunately my Akra system came off of my service advisor's M3 before he sold it to buy an M6 GC. So, BMW installed it. Should I have a problem I have a receipt for an exhaust my SA sold me and they installed.

Regarding cops, I passed one today on the highway and just upshifted to keep it quiet. No issues. Besides, if they do hear me on the throttle and make a fuss I will simply explain it was an aftermarket exhaust installed by the dealership. That should keep me out of trouble.

Tune fixes the CEL but you can also get the CEL delete.

Don't know about the smog test. They use an OBD reader here. If they used a sniffer I might be in trouble. But, the factory exhaust is in my garage and it's 16 bolts to do the swap if needed.

The cost is ridiculous, especially to someone who came from Fords and who has a $750 exhaust on his mustang (albeit 20 years old). But I'm fortunate enough to be able to write that check. My wife handles all the finances so, to be honest, I never actually saw the hit on the books. It took me months to commit though, even at $4k.

Heat shields. Well, on most other cars I've owned they've cracked or had issues and were removed at some point so I'm not worried about that with this one. Haven't read of any other people having problems.

Cold start I kind of like but it does rattle my trunk and it's the reason I wouldn't go with the Dinan tune as they don't remove it. I miss it a little.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sal@Evolve View Post
Unfortunately no videos but it's all very normal.

Tuned cars sound crisper and cleaner. Well, the way we do it anyway.

When you have a rich running engine or where the fuel is not completely burnt under partial load the exhaust note will always sound deeper and heavier.
And smoother (in addition to crisper, I mean). Without the tune it attracted attention. With the tune, unless I'm on the throttle, it doesn't turn any heads.

After reading more in another thread I wonder if adding an AA green filter will give me more of the howl I hear around 3k that I like so much. Only one way to find out I guess.
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