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      10-24-2007, 04:52 PM   #45
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if its a balance sheet that i know, you can either do that the old fashion way on paper or do it in quickbooks. and yes in general that is how a custom tune shop works. customer comes in we talk, make arrangements, and go on from there.

a debut is nothing without a building. like i said in my first post debut would be a magazine post with the debut car. friends family, get sponsors, etc. i think you are way overthinking it in just a detailed way. just think simple. my plans for exposure and debut are all in my first post.

i don't think its simple. im just keeping the solution simple. open a shop, debut, keep working hard, and with time comes sucess. i really think you are taking it way to seriously or my wording is making it sound simple.

i have met with 15 about people for investor/partner. 3 out of the 15 wanted to be partners and the 12 or so all agreed the plan is there, etc but were doubtul about me being so young. an investor will not give me money if they know a business will tank but god for bid if it does that is the unexpected.

i believe you are a person that oversees everything. a business tanking is a risk and a mystery factor in any business. you either can learn from it, recover and move on or its a complete crash.

im sorry if my wording seems simple but i know its not easy lol. getting started is the hard part. with patience comes sucess. just takes time to get established, recognized, etc before everything sets into place.
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      10-24-2007, 04:56 PM   #46
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somebody already has a csl in america.
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      10-24-2007, 05:01 PM   #47
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If money's no issue... i commend you for your simple outlook on a huge entrepreneurial opportunity.

As you get older, stresses will come. I remember when I was in HS, I took a part-time job being my own vendor selling wheels for rx8's. Those were fun times... nothing's that simple anymore... yet again, i'm looking for much bigger things.

Looks like you have aspirations to make something about it. I'm not gonna bombard you with questions/doubts. If you can do it, you can... no one can tell you otherwise.

Good luck with it man~
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      10-24-2007, 05:35 PM   #48
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somebody already has a csl in america.
who? can you post a link?
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      10-24-2007, 05:36 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by SE3P_to_E90 View Post
If money's no issue... i commend you for your simple outlook on a huge entrepreneurial opportunity.

As you get older, stresses will come. I remember when I was in HS, I took a part-time job being my own vendor selling wheels for rx8's. Those were fun times... nothing's that simple anymore... yet again, i'm looking for much bigger things.

Looks like you have aspirations to make something about it. I'm not gonna bombard you with questions/doubts. If you can do it, you can... no one can tell you otherwise.

Good luck with it man~
thanks alot for support. once im up and running you'll def have a job if you wanted . take care.
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      10-24-2007, 10:04 PM   #50
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^ thanks man. but don't you mean with patience comes sucess?
yea
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      10-25-2007, 06:23 PM   #51
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while i was on the road i got a great idea for location. there is a big huffman kooks building that noone is renting b/c of the high price but it is so big and empty, barely no walls, has a bathrooms, etc. right now another furniture store has it but they only stay for like 3-5 months and eventually move out. there are so many furniture stores near me. most end out in liquidation and closing besides the ones that have been here for a long time.

what a great spot. plus its about 5 minutes from my house
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      10-25-2007, 08:41 PM   #52
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price????????
money is alway the problem (at least for me)
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      10-25-2007, 08:58 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by hl0m4n View Post
1. No clue what your talking about on model.

2. Clientele base target is not planned. you do your job and along way get gain clientele with customers, magazines, debuts, etc. its the debut of the company that is important. debut is like a one shot deal for first impressions. business is a competition and a game. goals are to go ahead of Unique, WCC, Wicked, and CEC. all got their own + and -s. for example Wicked is amazing for their tuning of porsches, downside they don't have a build showroom like CEC so their business is strictly based on magazines, clientele and recognition.

3. balance sheet, etc once again keep it simple. customer comes in wants work done. they talk to me and we discuss project targets. i build a build sheet, he sign a contract i tune and get paid once the job is done. this is how cec, wcc, and unique all do their business. you come in, we talk on plans, i give you an estimate on target, you sign contract, let me finish the job, i finish, you come in look at it/feedback, i get paid and off you go.

4. what research do you need in the tuning industry? the way i see it you either know your stuff or you don't. the key thing is resources. installers, tinters, etc.

5. my other entry of start is teaming up with a dealer renting a small section of it with one car on the show room floor and using my team and their shop for the tuning until i make enough $$ or get a investor/partner to open up my own building.

keep it simple. no reason to go get complex

Having owned a few businesses, one of them being a race/tuning shop, based on your responses above i would not invest in this business. You need to think everything through waaaay more than you have.
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      10-26-2007, 11:13 AM   #54
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price????????
money is alway the problem (at least for me)
your not the only one
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      10-26-2007, 11:14 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by karmasabish View Post
Having owned a few businesses, one of them being a race/tuning shop, based on your responses above i would not invest in this business. You need to think everything through waaaay more than you have.
are you still in business? you have to remember though i have more input then what i have shown. and plus this isn't all me. it has to be a team decision between me and the other. working together, sharing ideas, enhancing plans, etc. but thanks for your input.
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      10-26-2007, 11:31 AM   #56
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You're better off going to college which i would bet is what you will do anyways.

Also you didnt answer me earlier. How exactly did you make that supposedly 100k on ebay, how long did it take and where the hell is all that money.
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      10-26-2007, 12:06 PM   #57
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wow. based on your responses, i'd suggest you stay in school, even get an MBA after that.

you're answers show how much you don't know about business and being good at running the business is the skill you need. you may have a passion, and that is great, but passion alone won't make you successful. if you had your own money, you can learn as you go, but you don't have that luxury.

this is what you need.

you need to do some research so you can make a projection of the profitability of your business. even if you lose money in the first few years, if you can show (prove) that in the long run, you have a very good chance of making a money for your investors, that will be good enough. investors want to see the bottom line. they want to know what you're going to do with the money, the potential ROI and the risks involved in your business. if you can't answer these questions in the greatest detail, then no one will have confidence in you and your plan.

so far, you have mistaken your dreams for an actual plan. work on the plan more, and you'll be on your way.

be cool, stay in school.

edit: the other option is to start small. get a small loan, or gather some angel investors. work on something cheaper than an M3 CSL (unless you already started this project, no point in abandoning it). the point is to make money, not to blow away competitors who have been in the business for 10 years. then you'll have REAL DATA to support your projections when you're ready to pitch to bigger investors.
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      10-26-2007, 12:46 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SE3P_to_E90 View Post
You still failed to answer any of my questions...
Ok, putting the entire startup funds aside, and building processes aside...

1. What business/math model are you using in planning this project?
2. Have you allocated an appropriate target clientele base?
3. What does your projected balance sheet look like? Statment of Cash flows?
4. Have you done the tuning industry/market research?
5. What are the barriers to entry (without taking startup funds into consideration)?

I have a million other questions, but if you can answer these legitimately, i'll surely be impressed and give you kudos for your efforts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hl0m4n View Post
1. No clue what your talking about on model.

2. Clientele base target is not planned. you do your job and along way get gain clientele with customers, magazines, debuts, etc. its the debut of the company that is important. debut is like a one shot deal for first impressions. business is a competition and a game. goals are to go ahead of Unique, WCC, Wicked, and CEC. all got their own + and -s. for example Wicked is amazing for their tuning of porsches, downside they don't have a build showroom like CEC so their business is strictly based on magazines, clientele and recognition.

3. balance sheet, etc once again keep it simple. customer comes in wants work done. they talk to me and we discuss project targets. i build a build sheet, he sign a contract i tune and get paid once the job is done. this is how cec, wcc, and unique all do their business. you come in, we talk on plans, i give you an estimate on target, you sign contract, let me finish the job, i finish, you come in look at it/feedback, i get paid and off you go.

4. what research do you need in the tuning industry? the way i see it you either know your stuff or you don't. the key thing is resources. installers, tinters, etc.

5. my other entry of start is teaming up with a dealer renting a small section of it with one car on the show room floor and using my team and their shop for the tuning until i make enough $$ or get a investor/partner to open up my own building.

keep it simple. no reason to go get complex
SE3P_to_E90, had the right idea, anyone who has money, VC, Investors or Banks want to see the list above without this no one who interested in making money will give you a penny, I am sorry that sound harsh, but if this idea is worth something to you, you need a well thought out business plan.

I'll help you a little, what is you market segment, sounds like high networth individuals, so how many of these people exist in the country, it about 0.2% of the population, next how many of them buy high end cars, well that is about 0.02% of the US, of this how many live in the NYC area, about 0.002% which is about 60K people. So this gets you down to your target market, you just have to figure out of them, how many will customize a car. Those are real numbers by the way, usually to get that kind of information you will pay someone 10 of thousand of dollars to figure out. So I just made a 10K investment in you.

Next, you better understand a balance sheet, and you talk about keeping it simple, well a balance sheet is as simple as it gets. This simply says how much money comes and goes each months. First, you will need lots of upfront cash, which you already figured, but you need to know how long that will last before you run out of cash. Also, understand no customer will front you cash for parts, you pay first and if they are happy they pay you. Oh and figure about 10% of your customer will not pay you or 10% of your receipts will not get paid. again those are real numbers in the retail business.

Hey, you got a good idea and worth pursuing but you need to understand what your getting yourself into and ebay is no model to go by since you probably never carried any inventory and if someone did not pay, you did not ship the product.

I use to restore old cars and did lots of work on them myself, it is a labor of love, but it does not make as much as you think. Now, I have a friend who does the same thing, but he does no work himself, he is more of a broker, people come to him who have vintage cars and want them restored, so he locates people all over the country to do the work for him and he never touches a car. He has been doing this for over 10 yrs now and just now is he make big $$ and guess what his over head is the office in his house and his client base is the baby boomers who is about 20% of the population. He makes $20K to $100K on a restoration depending on the car and does maybe 5 to 10 cars a year if that, and the last two years have been slow too.

One time he made $600K on a car he found that was very rare and the owner had no idea what it was worth, he bought it fixed it up and sold it at auction in Vegas.

If you want to do this, I would advise you to come up with a plan that does not require you to have upfront cash, since no one who has that kind of money will loan or invest it in you without a thorough understanding what your business plan is about. This mean how you make money and what are the risks of you not making money and how long it will take you to repay or buyout (this is know as the exit strategy for the investor).

One Last point, just because these millionaires you meet said you have a good idea does not mean it is a good idea. Most people got rich because they knew what to say to people and one thing is you never tell someone they have a bad idea. The true test of whether they think your idea is good enough to give you the money. Trust me I make investments and I only invest in ideas or companies which I truly think is good, because I lost money on the one I was not 100% sure about and did not check into the details.
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      10-26-2007, 04:06 PM   #59
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You're better off going to college which i would bet is what you will do anyways.

Also you didnt answer me earlier. How exactly did you make that supposedly 100k on ebay, how long did it take and where the hell is all that money.
of course ill still be attending college. im just saying if i can get this started and looks good then outa college i go . thanks for opinion.

i sold various things on ebay, ebooks, game guides, game hacks, bots, etc. did that for 3-4 years and voila $100,000+ in bank account lol. the best thing was i had outlook set on autodelivery so once the guy pays, outlook would e-mail them the product they bought. stay at home small business and i didn't even have to do anything besides relist my auctions
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      10-26-2007, 04:11 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by its ray den View Post
wow. based on your responses, i'd suggest you stay in school, even get an MBA after that.

you're answers show how much you don't know about business and being good at running the business is the skill you need. you may have a passion, and that is great, but passion alone won't make you successful. if you had your own money, you can learn as you go, but you don't have that luxury.

this is what you need.

you need to do some research so you can make a projection of the profitability of your business. even if you lose money in the first few years, if you can show (prove) that in the long run, you have a very good chance of making a money for your investors, that will be good enough. investors want to see the bottom line. they want to know what you're going to do with the money, the potential ROI and the risks involved in your business. if you can't answer these questions in the greatest detail, then no one will have confidence in you and your plan.

so far, you have mistaken your dreams for an actual plan. work on the plan more, and you'll be on your way.

be cool, stay in school.

edit: the other option is to start small. get a small loan, or gather some angel investors. work on something cheaper than an M3 CSL (unless you already started this project, no point in abandoning it). the point is to make money, not to blow away competitors who have been in the business for 10 years. then you'll have REAL DATA to support your projections when you're ready to pitch to bigger investors.
thanks bro and your right i didn't start anything learning from everybodys input here and will develop on it.

i think most people are mistaken but i am still in college to get my MBA no doubt about that. its just if i could start this anytime in the future then im out. but until then im still in

and for the M3 CSL, i love it . $55k on a low milage 06 competition m3, $100k into it and sell for a very small or no profit. just to display it. CSL is one sick car and that is my favorite car in THE WORLD .
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      10-26-2007, 04:17 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Maestro View Post
SE3P_to_E90, had the right idea, anyone who has money, VC, Investors or Banks want to see the list above without this no one who interested in making money will give you a penny, I am sorry that sound harsh, but if this idea is worth something to you, you need a well thought out business plan.

I'll help you a little, what is you market segment, sounds like high networth individuals, so how many of these people exist in the country, it about 0.2% of the population, next how many of them buy high end cars, well that is about 0.02% of the US, of this how many live in the NYC area, about 0.002% which is about 60K people. So this gets you down to your target market, you just have to figure out of them, how many will customize a car. Those are real numbers by the way, usually to get that kind of information you will pay someone 10 of thousand of dollars to figure out. So I just made a 10K investment in you.

Next, you better understand a balance sheet, and you talk about keeping it simple, well a balance sheet is as simple as it gets. This simply says how much money comes and goes each months. First, you will need lots of upfront cash, which you already figured, but you need to know how long that will last before you run out of cash. Also, understand no customer will front you cash for parts, you pay first and if they are happy they pay you. Oh and figure about 10% of your customer will not pay you or 10% of your receipts will not get paid. again those are real numbers in the retail business.

Hey, you got a good idea and worth pursuing but you need to understand what your getting yourself into and ebay is no model to go by since you probably never carried any inventory and if someone did not pay, you did not ship the product.

I use to restore old cars and did lots of work on them myself, it is a labor of love, but it does not make as much as you think. Now, I have a friend who does the same thing, but he does no work himself, he is more of a broker, people come to him who have vintage cars and want them restored, so he locates people all over the country to do the work for him and he never touches a car. He has been doing this for over 10 yrs now and just now is he make big $$ and guess what his over head is the office in his house and his client base is the baby boomers who is about 20% of the population. He makes $20K to $100K on a restoration depending on the car and does maybe 5 to 10 cars a year if that, and the last two years have been slow too.

One time he made $600K on a car he found that was very rare and the owner had no idea what it was worth, he bought it fixed it up and sold it at auction in Vegas.

If you want to do this, I would advise you to come up with a plan that does not require you to have upfront cash, since no one who has that kind of money will loan or invest it in you without a thorough understanding what your business plan is about. This mean how you make money and what are the risks of you not making money and how long it will take you to repay or buyout (this is know as the exit strategy for the investor).

One Last point, just because these millionaires you meet said you have a good idea does not mean it is a good idea. Most people got rich because they knew what to say to people and one thing is you never tell someone they have a bad idea. The true test of whether they think your idea is good enough to give you the money. Trust me I make investments and I only invest in ideas or companies which I truly think is good, because I lost money on the one I was not 100% sure about and did not check into the details.

thanks for the input and the investement . i really like everbodies input and i thank you for it. i will continue to develop on these and who knows maybe i will get a shop going next year and prove all you guys wrong then we can all chill and be haha. but really thanks and any more info please do share.

the balance sheets i learned last year in college on quickbooks (much better then doing it by pen paper).

target client wise don't you think is not just in your neighborhood but all around the states. that is what the shipping companies are for. my main idols are d/a, aa, and cec. i don't see much in wcc or unique but all the tuner shops don't just get business from their area its clientele and reputation that give you customers around the states.
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      10-26-2007, 04:19 PM   #62
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for now im going to try to get one of my dad's friend's bentley gt coupe to invest $50k in it. ill make a website showing projects, etc and do small in house jobs. we'll see .

i actually have another person my dad found for me on november 10th. he is a big car enthusiast so we'll see where we go once i meet him. hopefully he will be more understanding in cars then the others and we can come together to form something
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      10-26-2007, 04:48 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hl0m4n View Post
of course ill still be attending college. im just saying if i can get this started and looks good then outa college i go . thanks for opinion.

i sold various things on ebay, ebooks, game guides, game hacks, bots, etc. did that for 3-4 years and voila $100,000+ in bank account lol. the best thing was i had outlook set on autodelivery so once the guy pays, outlook would e-mail them the product they bought. stay at home small business and i didn't even have to do anything besides relist my auctions
Failed to mention what you did with that money and why it is gone. Also why would someone not do something that made them 100k still. Or maybe sell other things on ebay.

Also what you did was nothing major and 100k seems very far fetched. What is your ebay name.
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      10-26-2007, 05:30 PM   #64
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are you still in business? you have to remember though i have more input then what i have shown. and plus this isn't all me. it has to be a team decision between me and the other. working together, sharing ideas, enhancing plans, etc. but thanks for your input.

Write a full business plan. The questions you need to ask are those that a business plan require you to answer. Start there and good luck. As for me, no i'm not in business anymore because i didn't think the business through enough before opening my doors, and the company is now gone.
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      10-26-2007, 05:40 PM   #65
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money is not gone LOL. i still have most of it in my bank account. the only downside was i had to continuasly keep updating the hacks, bots for games. all in all you buy other peoples hacks, bots, etc and you list yours for $2-3 less.

i posted before why i can't continue selling. ebay suspended all the auctions affiliated in the same group as in their opinion it violated ebay policy. plus i was selling burned copies of programs on ebay for $100-$500 maya, cad, pshop, all the expensive stuff. this lasted about a year until ebay got strict. and till this day they only keep getting stricter.
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      10-26-2007, 05:42 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karmasabish View Post
Write a full business plan. The questions you need to ask are those that a business plan require you to answer. Start there and good luck. As for me, no i'm not in business anymore because i didn't think the business through enough before opening my doors, and the company is now gone.
best of luck to you and thanks for info. maybe you will make a comeback like will at unique. he had a shop that failed to and had to work at some fast food place. but with dedication got back in and look at where he is now.

also the tuning shop is not just for tuning. other sources of income would be dyno sessions, install of exhaust, suspension, etc. fame and recognition of the company is what draws in customers from all over which lead to clientele, more magazine spreads, etc.
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