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      01-17-2014, 01:14 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Guys, the point of this thread is not to drop in your 2 cents whether you should run anything outside TWS or not.

Let's keep it technical, I'd love to see more Blackstone reports for this oil. My numbers improved after switching to 0W40 (while driving the car much harder on this oil too).
+1 on both counts.
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      01-18-2014, 12:18 AM   #112
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Never used any other oil than Castrol 10w-60 for the M3, but I did use both the Mobil 1 0w-40 and the Castrol 0w-30(the one made in Germany) in my E38 740iL as well as the OEM 5w-30. I personally liked the German Castrol 0w-30 the best.
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      01-18-2014, 05:46 AM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
Guys, the point of this thread is not to drop in your 2 cents whether you should run anything outside TWS or not.
Which is fine - Except where posters are stating that Mobil 1 is on the list of BMW S65 M3 authorised oils when it is almost certainly not.
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      01-19-2014, 11:38 PM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
Which is fine - Except where posters are stating that Mobil 1 is on the list of BMW S65 M3 authorised oils when it is almost certainly not.
Not that I'm hoping to open up the "what exactly does BMW mean with the oil bulletin" argument again, but I read the most recent update a little differently than you.
Here is the new bulletin as it currently stands on the bmwusa.com website:

*The following is the only recommended and approved synthetic oil for BMW M (Motorsport) vehicles in the US market with gasoline engines, at the present time.
  • BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils for BMW M vehicles equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines
  • Castrol EDGE Professional TWS Motorsport SAE 10W-60 Synthetic Engine Oil BMW part number 07 51 0 009 420
or
  • Castrol EDGE Professional OE 5W30 Synthetic Engine Oil BMW part number 07 51 0 037 195

Link: http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...ngineOils.aspx

Note the three separate bullet points, which I read as three options. This changed from the earlier 2008 bulletin where the only two bullet points were the two Castrol products. There must be a reason for adding the third bullet point, or why else bother issuing a new bulletin that provides no new information?

Link to previous thread on the matter:http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=898076
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      01-20-2014, 02:03 AM   #115
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imho if you wait until your car is fully warmed and run any lower viscosity like m1 0w-40 and castrol 5w-30 you wont run into any bearing problems compared to the tws 10w-60. Just my perspective guys i could be wrong or right.
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      01-20-2014, 06:23 AM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpua View Post
Note the three separate bullet points, which I read as three options.
BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils for BMW M vehicles equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines
Yep..as long as it says that it is approved for "BMW M vehicles" on the label or in the oils specification then you are good to go.
Any old synthetic LL-01 you find down Walmart is not good to go.
Its why Castrol edge 10w-60 says on the label and in its specifications that it is approved for M engines.
While other Longlife-01 compliant Castrol oils do not.
Not to say that the Mobile 1 is not a great oil only that it is currently not approved by BMW for M engines.
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      01-20-2014, 09:15 AM   #117
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If you are out of warranty this is a completely academic discussion. IMO the approval verbiage has f-all to do with what works best, and everything to do with BMW using existing part numbers to fill a need rather than develop a new oil spec

I would expect the 10w60 to disappear from BMW's warehousing and dealer stock entirely over the next 5-10 years as they stop devoting extra inventory cost and shelf space to an oil they don't really need anymore and zero current or recent models will accept. there is no one right answer to "which oil is best?" per BMW's own documentation. The answer as always is "it depends"

Anyway once I get done trying my back to back to back TWS-edge-TWS analysis run I'm going to do the same with the Mobil 1 unless there's such a drastic improvement that I don't want to go back(not likely but possible based on others' results) My next three changes will be 0w40-edge-0w40

God help us all if my car throws a rod during a change with the Mobil 1 in it, lol
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      01-20-2014, 05:17 PM   #118
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Here's my latest oil analysis... Long story short, switching to Mobil 1 0w40 dropped my Lead levels from 5 to 1 and TBN stayed strong at 6.6

Blackstone Analysis
1/1/14 (60,000 miles, Mobil 1 0w40)
Aluminum 3
Chromium 0
Iron 5
Copper 1
Lead 1
Tin 2
Molybdenum 96
Nickel 1
Manganese 0
Silver 0
Titanium 7
Potassium 3
Boron 128
Silicon 2
Sodium 5
Calcium 2759
Magnesium 21
Phosphorus 796
Zinc 915
Barium 0

SUS Viscosity @ 210F 72
cST Viscosity @ 100C 13.47
Flashpoint in F 400
Fuel% <0.5
Antifreeze% 0
Water% 0
Insolubles% 0.1
TBN 6.6
TAN
ISO Code


10/26/13(56,000miles,TWS 10w60)
Aluminum 3
Chromium 0
Iron 4
Copper 1
Lead 5
Tin 1
Molybdenum 158
Nickel 1
Manganese 0
Silver 0
Titanium 7
Potassium 2
Boron 28
Silicon 3
Sodium 5
Calcium 2775
Magnesium 22
Phosphorus 766
Zinc 909
Barium 0

SUS Viscosity @ 210F 89.9
cST Viscosity @ 100C 17.96
Flashpoint in F 410
Fuel% <0.5
Antifreeze% 0
Water% 0
Insolubles% TR
TBN 3.2
TAN
ISO Code

8/17/13(49,000miles, Liquimoly 10w60)
Aluminum 2
Chromium 0
Iron 4
Copper 2
Lead 5
Tin 3
Molybdenum 10
Nickel 1
Manganese 1
Silver 0
Titanium 2
Potassium 1
Boron 43
Silicon 3
Sodium 5
Calcium 2651
Magnesium 53
Phosphorus 889
Zinc 1040
Barium 0

SUS Viscosity @ 210F 89.7
cST Viscosity @ 100C 17.9
Flashpoint in F 425
Fuel% <0.5
Antifreeze% 0
Water% 0
Insolubles% TR
TBN 2.4
TAN
ISO Code
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      01-20-2014, 07:22 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PandaM3 View Post
Here's my latest oil analysis... Long story short, switching to Mobil 1 0w40 dropped my Lead levels from 5 to 1 and TBN stayed strong at 6.6

Blackstone Analysis
1/1/14 (60,000 miles, Mobil 1 0w40)
Aluminum 3
Chromium 0
Iron 5
Copper 1
Lead 1
Tin 2
Molybdenum 96
Nickel 1
Manganese 0
Silver 0
Titanium 7
Potassium 3
Boron 128
Silicon 2
Sodium 5
Calcium 2759
Magnesium 21
Phosphorus 796
Zinc 915
Barium 0

SUS Viscosity @ 210F 72
cST Viscosity @ 100C 13.47
Flashpoint in F 400
Fuel% <0.5
Antifreeze% 0
Water% 0
Insolubles% 0.1
TBN 6.6
TAN
ISO Code


10/26/13(56,000miles,TWS 10w60)
Aluminum 3
Chromium 0
Iron 4
Copper 1
Lead 5
Tin 1
Molybdenum 158
Nickel 1
Manganese 0
Silver 0
Titanium 7
Potassium 2
Boron 28
Silicon 3
Sodium 5
Calcium 2775
Magnesium 22
Phosphorus 766
Zinc 909
Barium 0

SUS Viscosity @ 210F 89.9
cST Viscosity @ 100C 17.96
Flashpoint in F 410
Fuel% <0.5
Antifreeze% 0
Water% 0
Insolubles% TR
TBN 3.2
TAN
ISO Code

8/17/13(49,000miles, Liquimoly 10w60)
Aluminum 2
Chromium 0
Iron 4
Copper 2
Lead 5
Tin 3
Molybdenum 10
Nickel 1
Manganese 1
Silver 0
Titanium 2
Potassium 1
Boron 43
Silicon 3
Sodium 5
Calcium 2651
Magnesium 53
Phosphorus 889
Zinc 1040
Barium 0

SUS Viscosity @ 210F 89.7
cST Viscosity @ 100C 17.9
Flashpoint in F 425
Fuel% <0.5
Antifreeze% 0
Water% 0
Insolubles% TR
TBN 2.4
TAN
ISO Code
Very nice. So our cars dropped about the same level going from LM to M1.
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      01-20-2014, 08:17 PM   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
Yep..as long as it says that it is approved for "BMW M vehicles" on the label or in the oils specification then you are good to go.
Any old synthetic LL-01 you find down Walmart is not good to go.
Its why Castrol edge 10w-60 says on the label and in its specifications that it is approved for M engines.
While other Longlife-01 compliant Castrol oils do not.
Not to say that the Mobile 1 is not a great oil only that it is currently not approved by BMW for M engines.
Why are you still harping on this You seem to be the only one taking issue to the BMW bulletin and insisting everyone is wrong and you are right. If you truly believe TWS is the only oil your M should have then so be it. But dont tell others they are wrong for running "any old synthetic LL-01" when BMW put outs a bulletin clearly saying that it is ok to do so.
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      01-20-2014, 10:27 PM   #121
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[quote=Harpua;15299069]
Here is the new bulletin as it currently stands on the bmwusa.com website:

*The following is the only recommended and approved synthetic oil for BMW M (Motorsport) vehicles in the US market with gasoline engines, at the present time.
  • BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils for BMW M vehicles equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines
  • Castrol EDGE Professional TWS Motorsport SAE 10W-60 Synthetic Engine Oil BMW part number 07 51 0 009 420
or
  • Castrol EDGE Professional OE 5W30 Synthetic Engine Oil BMW part number 07 51 0 037 195

Link: http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...ngineOils.aspx

Looks to me like it's approved for use.
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      01-21-2014, 01:19 AM   #122
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[quote=SR-71;15305108]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpua View Post
Here is the new bulletin as it currently stands on the bmwusa.com website:

*The following is the only recommended and approved synthetic oil for BMW M (Motorsport) vehicles in the US market with gasoline engines, at the present time.
  • BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils for BMW M vehicles equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines
  • Castrol EDGE Professional TWS Motorsport SAE 10W-60 Synthetic Engine Oil BMW part number 07 51 0 009 420
or
  • Castrol EDGE Professional OE 5W30 Synthetic Engine Oil BMW part number 07 51 0 037 195

Link: http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...ngineOils.aspx

Looks to me like it's approved for use.
This.

It's approved, and many people are having good luck with it, including myself. If you still don't believe it's approved, then don't put in in your car. I, for one, am going to keep using it.
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      01-21-2014, 05:49 AM   #123
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You can put whatever oil you like in your car, I could care less.
However anyone giving out incorrect information should always be countered.

I emailed Mobil Technical support this morning for confirmation asking if Mobil 1 0W-40 is an M engines approved motor oil and their reply was:

"I believe you are referring to the BMW M3 Series equipped with S65 4.0L V8 engines.
None of the Mobil 1 0W-40 engine oils are recommended for this engine.

We don't have product specifically approved ("BMW Exclusive approval") for the BMW M-models, but from the technical point of view Mobil 1 Extended Life 10W-60 could be considered."


This is what the container needs to say:

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      01-21-2014, 01:08 PM   #124
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I think we can all agree that what is "officially" approved vs. what can "actually" be used to no detriment could be completely different irregardless.

In this day and age no one wants to give an "official" anything for fear of being sued should something happen
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      01-21-2014, 02:42 PM   #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
You can put whatever oil you like in your car, I could care less.
However anyone giving out incorrect information should always be countered.

I emailed Mobil Technical support this morning for confirmation asking if Mobil 1 0W-40 is an M engines approved motor oil and their reply was:

"I believe you are referring to the BMW M3 Series equipped with S65 4.0L V8 engines.
None of the Mobil 1 0W-40 engine oils are recommended for this engine.

We don't have product specifically approved ("BMW Exclusive approval") for the BMW M-models, but from the technical point of view Mobil 1 Extended Life 10W-60 could be considered."

This is what the container needs to say:
OK, BRO, YOU ARE SO RIGHT. Glad you cleared this up for us. It's good everyone here agrees with you too, and this issue has been put to rest. All of these guys have agreed to switch back to Castrol TWS. Done. Awesome.


Now... so it's good to see the 0W-40 is working well. Nice to see reports on two different cars show improvement.

My oil isn't due for another 12k but I'll prob switch to the Mobil for the next change.
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      01-21-2014, 03:29 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamspeed View Post
I think we can all agree that what is "officially" approved vs. what can "actually" be used to no detriment could be completely different irregardless.
Indeed..can't argue with that.
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      01-21-2014, 04:06 PM   #127
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Hmm I guess some people don't quite understand marketing or OEM contracts.
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      01-21-2014, 04:19 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dreamspeed View Post
In this day and age no one wants to give an "official" anything for fear of being sued should something happen
Quote:
Originally Posted by dereksM3 View Post
Hmm I guess some people don't quite understand marketing or OEM contracts.
Quoted for truth.

On a side note, my oil isn't due for about 4500 miles but I'll have a sample done when the time comes so we can build up the number of 0W-40 samples for our engines.
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      01-21-2014, 04:27 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Craigy View Post
OK, BRO, YOU ARE SO RIGHT. Glad you cleared this up for us. It's good everyone here agrees with you too, and this issue has been put to rest. All of these guys have agreed to switch back to Castrol TWS. Done. Awesome.


Now... so it's good to see the 0W-40 is working well. Nice to see reports on two different cars show improvement.

My oil isn't due for another 12k but I'll prob switch to the Mobil for the next change.
If I were you, I probably wouldn't go that long of an interval.
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      01-21-2014, 05:16 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants
You can put whatever oil you like in your car, I could care less.
However anyone giving out incorrect information should always be countered.

I emailed Mobil Technical support this morning for confirmation asking if Mobil 1 0W-40 is an M engines approved motor oil and their reply was:

"I believe you are referring to the BMW M3 Series equipped with S65 4.0L V8 engines.
None of the Mobil 1 0W-40 engine oils are recommended for this engine.

We don't have product specifically approved ("BMW Exclusive approval") for the BMW M-models, but from the technical point of view Mobil 1 Extended Life 10W-60 could be considered."


This is what the container needs to say:

When I was looking at different oils to put into my M3, I called Motul as to what they recommended. At first the person I spoke with said that there is no Motul oil recommended for the M3.

So I directed him to the link regarding BMW's new recommendations as well as the thread regarding failed bearings.

He said he just works in marketing and wanted to speak with Motul's engineers/ chemist regarding this.

He got back to me several hours later and told me in light of this, Motul recommended I use either their 300V 10w40 or 5w40... He strongly recommended 10w40... but couldn't tell me why.

Now none of this is official... and unless you bring up the link regarding BMW's oil recommendations... all oil companies will tell you the same thing... either use 10w60 or they don't make a recommended oil. Also remember, when you call/ contact the oil companies, you are just speaking with someone in marketing... they have a computer in front of them where they enter the year, brand, and model of car and it shows what oils they have that work...

otoh... if you look at my latest oil analysis from Blackstone a few posts up along with the other Blackstone analysis from another member... you would see that the Mobil 1 0w40 shows evidence of greatly reducing bearing wear... in my post I have the values from Liqui Moly 10w60, TWS 10w60, and Mobil 1 0w40.

So you can look at BMW's recommendations and interpret it any way you want... or you can look at the hard evidence from the oil analysis and make your best informed decision based on that
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      01-21-2014, 05:26 PM   #131
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Need to be careful not to put too much faith in blackstone analysis. Like a dynamometer it's only useful for comparison and trending rather than telling you definitively that "yes there's a problem" or "no everything's fine"

Lower lead is great but it's just one metric. Important one sure but plenty of motors with good looking samples have gone boom anyway
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      01-21-2014, 05:57 PM   #132
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Having read the whole thread, is it safe to conclude the following?
  • 10W-60= Best used in the summer
  • 0w-40= Best used in the winter
All the above outside of warranty of course.
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