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      11-08-2013, 02:47 PM   #1
0_to_60
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Whos running Mobil 1 0w-40?

Bought 2 jugs thinking about replacing my oil. Who has been running without any issues? Am i making a costly mistake switching to this oil?
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      11-12-2013, 02:57 PM   #2
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ended up running tws 10w-60
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      11-12-2013, 03:39 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by 0_to_60 View Post
ended up running tws 10w-60
+1 ...spot on !
Next friday appointment with my BMW dealer for oil change and this with Castrol TWS 10W-60 !
And this is the oil that the BMW ///M engineers have chosen for our S65 engine and i suppose that they know better than us what oil to use after years of testing !
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      11-13-2013, 08:15 AM   #4
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+1 ...spot on !
Next friday appointment with my BMW dealer for oil change and this with Castrol TWS 10W-60 !
And this is the oil that the BMW ///M engineers have chosen for our S65 engine and i suppose that they know better than us what oil to use after years of testing !

Except that now BMW has changed their mind on that and allows LL-01 oils.
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      11-13-2013, 02:38 PM   #5
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Except that now BMW has changed their mind on that and allows LL-01 oils.
I know my friend...
But .. !
BWM-Belgium-Australia-Germany confirmed still using Castrol TWS 10W60 and know nothing about this,other country's i don't know !
I have reading every single thread on this forum about this and saw the documents,so for me it's a mistery ...
Next friday i go for a oil change at my BMW dealer and will talk (ask) info about this LL-01 oils and when i get clear answers i will post them in this thread !
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      11-13-2013, 03:45 PM   #6
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You won't get clear answers. Even dealers in North America were confused or had no clue the bulletin was out. And a few guys called BMW of North America and got a non-answer.
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      11-13-2013, 07:58 PM   #7
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IMO, if you're under warranty stick with the 10W60; if you're out of warranty do whatever you want. I'm going to stick with the 10w-60 even outside of warranty. I think everyone can agree that the bulletin allows the 10W60 or 5W30 listed; not everyone agrees that it allows any and all LL-01's. I asked Mike Miller about this and he also interpreted the bulletin like I did - that 10W60 and 5W30 are the only recommended and approved oils for the S65.

But there are many out there intent on interpreting the bulletin as allowing any LL-01 irrespective of what is discussed. It's their choice and they bear the risk of being wrong. With the cost of an S65 engine being what it is, I'm not about to give BMW a window of opportunity to wiggle out of a warranty (or goodwill) repair for using an "unauthorized" oil.

Look at this bulletin from 2008: http://www.bimmerfile.com/wp-content...hetic-oils.pdf

It has the same language as the new bulletin but for some reason, folks think that BMW has had some fantastic revelation and decided that all LL-01 oils are good for the S65 (even though no weight is specified for the LL-01 oil). Mike Miller raised a very good point in his reply. He pointed out that the LL-01 specification is BMW's rating for how long you could run the oil before oil changes (note that Mike does not agree at all with BMW's 15k mile oil change interval recommendation) and not a specification for lubrication.

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      11-13-2013, 08:04 PM   #8
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I've been following the recent threads regarding oil and rod bearing clearances. IMO, there's not enough evidence out there yet to make me switch over to 0W40. I'm sticking to 10W60 for now.
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      11-13-2013, 09:14 PM   #9
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I've changed over to 0W-40 and I used to think ,who else would know these engines better than the engineers at BMW? Well after this bearing clearance debacle I've since lost all faith in BMW. I work with engineers and wrong calculations can be justified by the accountants.
Oh BTW the engine seems to run about 10 degrees cooler with Mobil 1.
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      11-14-2013, 05:46 PM   #10
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Quote:
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I've been following the recent threads regarding oil and rod bearing clearances. IMO, there's not enough evidence out there yet to make me switch over to 0W40. I'm sticking to 10W60 for now.
If anything, the bearing scares give more evidence to needing something thinner than 10w60.
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      11-15-2013, 12:15 PM   #11
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You won't get clear answers. Even dealers in North America were confused or had no clue the bulletin was out. And a few guys called BMW of North America and got a non-answer.
Just back home from my BMW dealer and had a oil change with Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10W60 .
And you was right about the clear answers,they know nothing about LL-01 oils and 0W40 or 5W40 ,and i can tell you this is a very good BMW dealer !
BTW...i was asking also about the bearing faillures and they were very surprised to hear the horror stories about this,i had also send them with Email the pics of the bad and used bearings posted on this forum from our S65 engine and the reaction was.....wow....jesus !
This was the first time that they saw something like this,and than they open their database to look about bearing cases here in Belgium ...
The result was.. 0 cases..Puma system the same...0 cases ?!?!
With my BMW dealer are 6 ///M3's and also in maintenance program and there is one with 92,000 KM on the clock and also with o problems....
Conclusion....
The bearing problem is now even a bigger mystery to me...
The costs for oil change today in Belgium was...470 Euro's and in USD...mmmm....$ 634 USD
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      11-15-2013, 12:28 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
+1 ...spot on !
Next friday appointment with my BMW dealer for oil change and this with Castrol TWS 10W-60 !
And this is the oil that the BMW ///M engineers have chosen for our S65 engine and i suppose that they know better than us what oil to use after years of testing !
i usually dont switch oils, especially when the manufacturer requires a specific grade/brand. I just hated the warm up period, it takes about 8-10 mins of granny driving for the oil temp to reach 200-210f. This was the only reason i wanted to make the switch.
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      11-15-2013, 01:56 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Just back home from my BMW dealer and had a oil change with Castrol Edge Professional TWS 10W60 .
And you was right about the clear answers,they know nothing about LL-01 oils and 0W40 or 5W40 ,and i can tell you this is a very good BMW dealer !
BTW...i was asking also about the bearing faillures and they were very surprised to hear the horror stories about this,i had also send them with Email the pics of the bad and used bearings posted on this forum from our S65 engine and the reaction was.....wow....jesus !
This was the first time that they saw something like this,and than they open their database to look about bearing cases here in Belgium ...
The result was.. 0 cases..Puma system the same...0 cases ?!?!
With my BMW dealer are 6 ///M3's and also in maintenance program and there is one with 92,000 KM on the clock and also with o problems....
Conclusion....
The bearing problem is now even a bigger mystery to me...
The costs for oil change today in Belgium was...470 Euro's and in USD...mmmm....$ 634 USD

I'm surprised they even divulged the PuMA info to you. That seems like confidential/proprietary data.
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      11-15-2013, 02:24 PM   #14
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I'm surprised they even divulged the PuMA info to you. That seems like confidential/proprietary data.
Yes...and i just forgotten to tell this.. and it was importend for the chief mechanic....
He said that the 98-RON fuel is mutch better for the S65 engine than 93-Ron and 95-RON and special for the crucial parts like bearings !
In my car there was never something else than 98-RON !
And the 98-RON is here everywhere....
Could this be the solution ?....Who knows...? I hope yes for all of us !
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      11-15-2013, 02:52 PM   #15
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Yes...and i just forgotten to tell this.. and it was importend for the chief mechanic....
He said that the 98-RON fuel is mutch better for the S65 engine than 93-Ron and 95-RON and special for the crucial parts like bearings !
In my car there was never something else than 98-RON !
And the 98-RON is here everywhere....
Could this be the solution ?....Who knows...? I hope yes for all of us !
Completely different to how US rates fuel. Premium gasoline here does not equal RON 93. So for a lot of us, that's not the issue for rod bearings.
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      11-15-2013, 03:29 PM   #16
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Completely different to how US rates fuel. Premium gasoline here does not equal RON 93. So for a lot of us, that's not the issue for rod bearings.

Yep. Different areas of the country get different octanes for "premium". In the Midwest, you can get 91, 92, or 93. In other places, they only have 91. And others can even get 94. Plus there's the whole notion of E0/E5/E10 which dilutes the whole mixture a bit.

Technically at high altitudes you don't NEED the 93, hence its rarity, but that's debatable.
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      11-16-2013, 01:29 AM   #17
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Its simple grammar really and reading comprehension. Or maybe on the flip side, knowing how to write something clearly. It says for m cars, option 1, tws 10w60 OR (meaning option 2) any ll1 oil and so on. So you can use mobil1 0w and still claim your warranty.

The other problem i see is this ... 60 is too thick when the engine is cold but when warm is good. On the otherhand, 40 is good when cold but does it get too thin when hot (track days)? Thats where it is an unknown for me.

Excuse my grammar as im on the phone app
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      11-16-2013, 03:52 PM   #18
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The other problem i see is this ... 60 is too thick when the engine is cold but when warm is good. On the otherhand, 40 is good when cold but does it get too thin when hot (track days)? Thats where it is an unknown for me.

Excuse my grammar as im on the phone app


M 0w40 is widely used as a streetable race oil. Even Mobil says that's what it was designed for. Factory fill on the AMG models, Viper, GT-R, etc. Also used as a spec-oil by some spec-racing series. Aston Martin uses it straight from the bottle in their LeMans cars.

300 F on that oil on the track is just fine.

Being considerably thinner than TWS (HTHS 3.8 versus 5.2) means it will actually run cooler. The higher VI (185 vs 173) also means a lower change of viscosity with temperature, which is a good thing. We already know that the bearings on these cars have issues squeezing oil through due to some crazy tolerances, so why run something even thicker than necessary?

As I've repeatedly posted: "as thin as possible but as thick as necessary".
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      11-16-2013, 04:09 PM   #19
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M 0w40 is widely used as a streetable race oil. Even Mobil says that's what it was designed for. Factory fill on the AMG models, Viper, GT-R, etc. Also used as a spec-oil by some spec-racing series. Aston Martin uses it straight from the bottle in their LeMans cars.

300 F on that oil on the track is just fine.

Being considerably thinner than TWS (HTHS 3.8 versus 5.2) means it will actually run cooler. The higher VI (185 vs 173) also means a lower change of viscosity with temperature, which is a good thing. We already know that the bearings on these cars have issues squeezing oil through due to some crazy tolerances, so why run something even thicker than necessary?

As I've repeatedly posted: "as thin as possible but as thick as necessary".
100% agreed...I know everything about the Mobil 0W40 SuperSyn !
One of my previous cars was a AC Schnitzer BMW 325 i straight 6 and every oil change was done on this car with Mobil 0W40 !(with the gold closure-cap)
This car had 325,000 km on the clock...than i sell it,and still runs strong even today !
But this was not a S65 engine ...
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      11-16-2013, 06:38 PM   #20
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hmmm so anyone actually running m 0w40?? all this talk about those damn bearings r making me want to switch possibly to keep my engine protected......hmmmmmm but who knows if it will actually make a difference
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      11-16-2013, 06:47 PM   #21
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hmmm so anyone actually running m 0w40?? all this talk about those damn bearings r making me want to switch possibly to keep my engine protected......hmmmmmm but who knows if it will actually make a difference
Not agreed..see # 11 on this page...
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      11-16-2013, 07:21 PM   #22
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hmmm so anyone actually running m 0w40?? all this talk about those damn bearings r making me want to switch possibly to keep my engine protected......hmmmmmm but who knows if it will actually make a difference

You have an incredibly small and very vocal minority. I wouldn't lose sleep over the bearing issue. This is nowhere near as bad as the early S54 problems.

And yes, I believe that a thinner oil will make a difference, as I explained above.
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