BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
ESS Tuning
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-22-2013, 12:32 PM   #45
Techjunkie666
First Lieutenant
 
Techjunkie666's Avatar
 
Drives: X5D SAV
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Tx

Posts: 389
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3AG
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techjunkie666 View Post
.... I felt it was heavy and lacked that torque I loved on the 335i or the 330ci....
Really? Last time I checked the torque numbers were...

M3 : 296 lb-ft
335i: 300 lb-ft
330ci: 222 lb-ft
And?
Just torque numbers don't matter either. It's the low end torque in the 335i that makes it a better daily driver. Like I said it's my opinion, you don't have to like it.
__________________
2014 F10 M5 (On Order)
'10 E92 M3, '09 E90 M3, '12 C63 AMG 507 Ed, '07 335i, '06 RS4
Techjunkie666 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-22-2013, 12:35 PM   #46
Longboarder
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2013 e92 M3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Monarch Beach

Posts: 3,597
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2013 e92 M3  [4.96]
2011 997.2 Turbo S  [4.80]
2013 WRX STi  [4.00]
2013 BMW X5  [0.00]
Don't get the M3. It will make you do stupid things like need to go to an exotic as your next car to improve on what the M3 offers. And then you'll start test driving Ferraris, Lambo's etc.

Stick with the 335.
__________________
Daily: 2013 e92 M3 DCT / ESS VT2 650 S/C / Akrapovic Evolution / StopTech BBK
Track/Airstrip: 2011 997.2 Turbo S PDK / 725 HP / BBi suspension build
Beater: 2013 X5 3.5sport
YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCT1...eoFBszPIK0gf9w
Longboarder is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-22-2013, 12:35 PM   #47
Techjunkie666
First Lieutenant
 
Techjunkie666's Avatar
 
Drives: X5D SAV
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Tx

Posts: 389
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan
Quote:
Originally Posted by M3AG View Post
Really? Last time I checked the torque numbers were...

M3 : 296 lb-ft
335i: 300 lb-ft
330ci: 222 lb-ft
This is an oversimplification. The 335i has all of its torque available very early in the rev range, whereas the M3 builds fairly linearly and only achieves its peak torque toward the top of the range. And even if that weren't the case, effective torque is also influenced by gearing, so torque numbers at the crank wouldn't tell the whole story. The M3 makes up some of its torque deficit in lower rev ranges by having a shorter final drive, which is facilitated by its engine's broader rev range.

Or you could just downshift a gear or two, have MORE torque than a 335 thanks to the gearing, and enjoy that sweet, sweet banshee wail of a high-revving V8.
Well said. I agree.
__________________
2014 F10 M5 (On Order)
'10 E92 M3, '09 E90 M3, '12 C63 AMG 507 Ed, '07 335i, '06 RS4
Techjunkie666 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-22-2013, 12:36 PM   #48
M3AG
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2013 E92 M3 ZCP, 6MT
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Gatineau

Posts: 231
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techjunkie666 View Post
And?
Just torque numbers don't matter either. It's the low end torque in the 335i that makes it a better daily driver. Like I said it's my opinion, you don't have to like it.
I don't. That's why I bought the M3
M3AG is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      10-22-2013, 12:40 PM   #49
Techjunkie666
First Lieutenant
 
Techjunkie666's Avatar
 
Drives: X5D SAV
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Tx

Posts: 389
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3AG
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techjunkie666 View Post
And?
Just torque numbers don't matter either. It's the low end torque in the 335i that makes it a better daily driver. Like I said it's my opinion, you don't have to like it.
I don't. That's why I bought the M3
Enjoy it! I loved my M3 too.
__________________
2014 F10 M5 (On Order)
'10 E92 M3, '09 E90 M3, '12 C63 AMG 507 Ed, '07 335i, '06 RS4
Techjunkie666 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-22-2013, 12:44 PM   #50
MFL
Lieutenant
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Seattle

Posts: 443
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
1998 BMW M3  [0.00]
2010 BMW M3  [0.00]
2011 E92 M3 ZCP  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by jphughan View Post
This is an oversimplification. The 335i has all of its torque available very early in the rev range, whereas the M3 builds fairly linearly and only achieves its peak torque toward the top of the range. And even if that weren't the case, effective torque is also influenced by gearing, so torque numbers at the crank wouldn't tell the whole story. The M3 makes up some of its torque deficit in lower rev ranges by having a shorter final drive, which is facilitated by its engine's broader rev range.

Or you could just downshift a gear or two, have MORE torque than a 335 thanks to the gearing, and enjoy that sweet, sweet banshee wail of a high-revving V8.
NOPE! The S65 develops the majority of its torque very low, between 3000 and 3500 and is comparable to the 335i.

335i Dyno


S65 M3 Dyno


E39 M5 S60 Dyno
MFL is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-22-2013, 12:52 PM   #51
alpinweiss 335i
Brigadier General
 
alpinweiss 335i's Avatar
 
Drives: '13 f30 335i 6MT M-Sport
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Northeast USA

Posts: 3,113
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2013 f30 335i  [5.00]
2012 e92 M3  [5.00]
2013 f30 335i  [4.75]
2006 e90 330i  [5.00]
2003 e46 330xi  [4.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techjunkie666 View Post
I have owned 335i (sports package), 330CI, 330XI, Z4, 535i, 550i & M3. M3 is a beast that is great on a track but as a daily drivers I felt it was heavy and lacked that torque I loved on the 335i or the 330ci . I avoided test driving an M3 till I could afford it, coz I knew I would buy it if I drove it.


Now after owning both, I have to say that I prefer the 335i with sports package as a daily driver and the M3 as a track car. Just my two cents.

My sentiments exactly. Loved both cars and would recommend them both. Just not for the same purpose.

In the OP's case I would still recommend the 335i, not because it is a better car, but because may better suit his needs, budget and lifestyle (from what little information provided here).
__________________
e46
e90
f30
e92 ///M

f30
alpinweiss 335i is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-22-2013, 12:53 PM   #52
alpinweiss 335i
Brigadier General
 
alpinweiss 335i's Avatar
 
Drives: '13 f30 335i 6MT M-Sport
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Northeast USA

Posts: 3,113
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2013 f30 335i  [5.00]
2012 e92 M3  [5.00]
2013 f30 335i  [4.75]
2006 e90 330i  [5.00]
2003 e46 330xi  [4.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MFL View Post
NOPE! The S65 develops the majority of its torque very low, between 3000 and 3500 and is comparable to the 335i.

335i Dyno


S65 M3 Dyno


E39 M5 S60 Dyno

Please, don't bring facts into this. They ruin my opinion.
__________________
e46
e90
f30
e92 ///M

f30
alpinweiss 335i is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-22-2013, 12:59 PM   #53
M3AG
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2013 E92 M3 ZCP, 6MT
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Gatineau

Posts: 231
iTrader: (0)

All I hear is 335i is a better daily driver. This is my dd routine, first highway with other 1000s of cars (70KM to 100KM) then streets driving (5- 40 KM/h). Not sure I can use the low end torque in any car. Maybe I need to move
M3AG is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      10-22-2013, 01:10 PM   #54
jphughan
Brigadier General
 
jphughan's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011.75 M3 E92 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Austin, TX

Posts: 3,291
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Techjunkie666 View Post
You can't high rev a m3 in day to day driving like on the track. So no you can't drive a m3 like a m3 in daily driving.
Also very true, it would be obnoxious and turn your fuel economy from mediocre to downright terrible. But the M3's torque at more sane RPMs isn't exactly BAD. It's not particularly impressive and certainly not what you'd "expect" from an M3 (to get what you'd expect you have to drive it as the M3 is supposed to be driven) but I find it entirely adequate for casual driving. And when I want more than casual driving, I drive appropriately to achieve it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by swartzentruber View Post
I kind of wish this sentiment would go away, but I'm sure it won't. The E9x does makes a decent track car, but I've seen way too many cars in the wall with signicant damage to ever think of putting my DD on the track with any regularity (I have driven it one weekend when my R32 was in the shop). At my last event, there must have been 10-15 significant incidents over the weekend, including an E46 M3 (I think) that ended up looking like a 318ti.

I previously owned a 335xi, and have no trouble justifying the increased costs over a 335 (new to new) from the standpoint of handling and engine characteristics alone. Used, I'd guess the differential is even less. Occasional track usage is just the icing on the cake for those just getting into the sport, or for those where having a dedicated track car is completely impractical or this will be their dedicated track car.
I admit that I don't have the data at my fingertips to support this, but I would guess that the number of accidents at the track is far lower than the number of accidents out on public roads even on a per capita basis. At least at the track you have no pedestrians, traffic only running in one direction, corner workers to warn you of what's ahead, and most importantly, everybody focused on actually driving, not trying to balance a cell phone and a latte.

If you're seeing 10-15 accidents on a single event, I'd think about running with another organizer because clearly either the instructors aren't doing a great job and/or students are being promoted into faster groups too quickly. I MIGHT see one or two semi-serious incidents in an entire weekend, but many weekends go off without a hitch. There was one weekend (ironically my first time at the track) where there were I think 7 incidents that resulted in cars being undrivable (but not all totaled), but I received confirmation from the organizer and other veteran participants that this was hugely uncommon, and it apparently prompted a looong instructor meeting the morning of Day 2 of that event.

Anyway, I'm glad you apparently track at least occasionally. Out of curiosity though, what different engine characteristics did you note between a 335i and a 335xi?
__________________
11 M3 E92 Le Mans | Black Nov w/ Alum | 6MT | Premium 2 | Convenience | 19" | EDC | Prem Audio | Moonroof | BMW Apps | Vorshlag Adjustable Camber Plates | StopTech ST-60 380mm BBK | Castrol SRF Fluid | ModMyNav.com rear camera | OEM Euro Sunglasses Holder
jphughan is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-22-2013, 02:28 PM   #55
M3AG
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2013 E92 M3 ZCP, 6MT
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Gatineau

Posts: 231
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dashman View Post
Everyone has taken the bait. Hook, line and sinker
LoL I walked right into it...
M3AG is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      10-22-2013, 05:28 PM   #56
Techjunkie666
First Lieutenant
 
Techjunkie666's Avatar
 
Drives: X5D SAV
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Tx

Posts: 389
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3AG
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dashman View Post
Everyone has taken the bait. Hook, line and sinker
LoL I walked right into it...
Like moth to fire. I think there is at least 10 or so threads on this same topic. Each one has the same outcome
__________________
2014 F10 M5 (On Order)
'10 E92 M3, '09 E90 M3, '12 C63 AMG 507 Ed, '07 335i, '06 RS4
Techjunkie666 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-22-2013, 09:54 PM   #57
e90sexion
E 9 0 S E X I O N
 
e90sexion's Avatar
 
Drives: M3, Z4MC
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Vancouver/WA

Posts: 6,228
iTrader: (16)

Once you get m3, you will mod it eventually, if not its still superior to 335i
just get m3, do it right from the start
also, lot of people comment how 335i is better DD but I dont see a problem with M3 in DD. When I drove 6spd e92 M3, I did not feel any underpower or lacking of low tq compared to 335. Obviously mpg will be different from your 328 lol
e90sexion is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      10-22-2013, 10:11 PM   #58
duk
///M
 
Drives: 2011 AW/FR 6MT E92
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: San Jose, CA

Posts: 2,939
iTrader: (0)

is this a joke thread?
__________________
2011 AW/FR 6MT E92 | Powered by Premier | Alekshop | ESS |
Rok n Peace Clothing: www.roknpeace.com

duk is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-23-2013, 01:54 AM   #59
YolkyPalky
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3 DCT ZCP SPACE GRAY
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: San Diego, CA

Posts: 243
iTrader: (0)

The M3 is more FUN to drive in all conditions, all roads, anytime, anywhere....THAT is what makes the M3 a better "Daily Driver" (whatever the hell that phrase means).
YolkyPalky is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-23-2013, 05:40 PM   #60
Dylanize
Captain Dutch Rudder
 
Dylanize's Avatar
 
Drives: 07' E92
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Queen City, NC

Posts: 1,530
iTrader: (4)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dashman View Post
The other forums have every right to make fun of us.
I literally came to the M3 forum to do that.

But don't worry they're having the monthly 328i vs 335i debate right now as well...

Just buy the M3 OP is that even a question?
__________________

| Platinum Bronze Metallic | AA | VMR | ACS | DJApex Eurobox |
Dylanize is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
328i, 335, bmwm3, car

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:25 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST