BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > M3 (E90 / E92 / E93) > General M3 Forum (E90 + E92 + E93)
 
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      10-18-2013, 09:46 PM   #23
g222leav
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2013 AW M3
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Chicago

Posts: 148
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by OilPatch View Post
I for 1 have found this thread quite enlightening.
agreed...
g222leav is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-18-2013, 10:33 PM   #24
1MOREMOD
2014 Track Days - 6|Ridge 1:54:61|Pacific 1:35:72
 
1MOREMOD's Avatar
 
Drives: Race car->
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: check your mirrors

Posts: 11,715
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdosu View Post
let us know when you upgrade to a E9X, then we can discuss the merits of M button.
i already have a power button under my right foot.
__________________

02 Tiag e46 M3|6MT|GC plates|MCS c.o.|GC bars|GC race control arms|GC bushings & bearings|BW eng. & tran. mounts|subframe kit|BW race shifter|BW Jaffster|Euro header|BW race|K&N c.a.i.|Epic race tune|Rouge pulleys|Seibon CF hood|CSL bumper|ST-40|XR-2|SS lines|half cage|Recaro profi|Profi 2 harness|BMWpedals|BW studs|
1MOREMOD is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-18-2013, 10:46 PM   #25
mdosu
Banned
 
Drives: Double Vanos'd Civic-M3
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: San Francisco

Posts: 8,517
iTrader: (6)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
i already have a power button under my right foot.
you win this round.
mdosu is offline   No_Country
0
Reply With Quote
      10-19-2013, 02:53 AM   #26
SROC5
Addicted to Track
 
SROC5's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: USCON

Posts: 1,581
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1MOREMOD View Post
these are all new topics to me continue.
__________________

| Akrapovic Evo | ESSi | Swift Spec-R | CF Spoiler | APEX ARC-8 | RS-3 | PFC-08 | DIF |
SROC5 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-19-2013, 11:07 AM   #27
YolkyPalky
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3 DCT ZCP SPACE GRAY
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: San Diego, CA

Posts: 243
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Its amazing how some people purchase this car knowing absolutely nothing about it.
Or what cracks me up even more is people buying this car and then asking questions about "D" mode.
YolkyPalky is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-19-2013, 12:04 PM   #28
Crimson92
Smiling Politely
 
Crimson92's Avatar
 
Drives: Like a boss
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Whales Vagina

Posts: 28,613
iTrader: (3)

Quote:
Originally Posted by YolkyPalky
Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Its amazing how some people purchase this car knowing absolutely nothing about it.
Or what cracks me up even more is people buying this car and then asking questions about "D" mode.
D mode. What's that.

__________________
Quote:
Some people are like slinkies...not really good for much but you can't help but smile when you see one tumble down the stairs"
Crimson92 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-19-2013, 06:30 PM   #29
flea333
Lieutenant
 
flea333's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 M3 ZCP, LMB, DCT
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: South Bay Area, CA

Posts: 433
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 328i  [0.00]
I combed through the manual and found nothing on these topics. I had setup my M button, but was still curious how these different modes actually change the vehicle dynamics. I can't really experience the car outside a race track so I don't think really understanding how these settings impact driving unless you're really driving the car the way it was designed, that's what these settings are for.

I did find the supplementary M manual that explained these settings briefly. Drivelogic isn't explained much as to how it impacts driving experience and what it's used for. The Power button was explained in this manual as throttle sensitivity, which makes sense. Basically the same thing my BMS power box did for my 328i.

When I first bought the car I didn't even know how to put it into gear...I had only test driven a manual. How's that for not knowing a car?
__________________
2013 M3 LMB, DCT, ZCP, Premium, EPS, Bamboo Beige, Apps, sunroof
flea333 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-19-2013, 06:31 PM   #30
flea333
Lieutenant
 
flea333's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 M3 ZCP, LMB, DCT
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: South Bay Area, CA

Posts: 433
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 328i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticBlue View Post
All these things have been discussed a million times over the years, but I'm bored, so...
1. Power button should not be labeled "Power" button, it should be labeled "Throttle Position Sensitivity". That's all it does. The computer looks at throttle position, 0-100%. The button just changes the curve that the computer sees for your pedal position. The power button makes the throttle more sensitive at the beginning of it's travel. You push it in 50% and instead of seeing 50%, the computer sees 70%. 100% is still 100% either way. There is no more than 100%. No more torque, no more hp. The power button does not add any torque or hp. Go to a track event and I guarantee the instructor will tell you leaving it on normal is better. Smoother is better.
2. 6th position of drive logic only comes up as an option when you turn off DSC. My advice is that you do not do this. This is where you start if you are doing launch control, which I also advise you not to do at this point.
In S mode, higher settings cause the transmission to shift faster and more aggressively and to rev match more aggressively on downshifts. You should be able to feel the diffence shifting at higher rpm under heavy throttle and you should hear the difference downshifting at higher rpm. You should really be able to tell the difference between 1 and 5. Again, 6 is only going to happen with DSC off. No reason for you to go there.
3. Shift indicator lights can be turned on in settings, I think under M settings. I don't remember specifically, but if you search around in the menus, you will find it. If you don't have nav, then you can use the thingy on the turn signal stalk.. someone else will have to splain that, or you could search. It's here somewhere.
Thanks, Ill have to experiment more and see how it impacts the driving experience.
__________________
2013 M3 LMB, DCT, ZCP, Premium, EPS, Bamboo Beige, Apps, sunroof
flea333 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-19-2013, 11:30 PM   #31
flea333
Lieutenant
 
flea333's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 M3 ZCP, LMB, DCT
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: South Bay Area, CA

Posts: 433
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 328i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticBlue View Post
All these things have been discussed a million times over the years, but I'm bored, so...
2. 6th position of drive logic only comes up as an option when you turn off DSC. My advice is that you do not do this. This is where you start if you are doing launch control, which I also advise you not to do at this point.
In S mode, higher settings cause the transmission to shift faster and more aggressively and to rev match more aggressively on downshifts. You should be able to feel the diffence shifting at higher rpm under heavy throttle and you should hear the difference downshifting at higher rpm. You should really be able to tell the difference between 1 and 5. Again, 6 is only going to happen with DSC off. No reason for you to go there.
.
2 -- What do you mean by "shift faster and more aggressively"? I'm pretty sure the transmission shifts the same quickness always. If you're in S mode, you control when the shifts happen, not the computer, so what am I missing?
__________________
2013 M3 LMB, DCT, ZCP, Premium, EPS, Bamboo Beige, Apps, sunroof

Last edited by flea333; 10-20-2013 at 03:08 AM.
flea333 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-19-2013, 11:39 PM   #32
EvenSteven
Banned
 
EvenSteven's Avatar
 
Drives: '11 m3
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: United States

Posts: 400
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by flea333 View Post
1 -- More clarification -- so the Power button is not on Manual transmissions correct?

2 -- What do you mean by "shift faster and more aggressively"? I'm pretty sure the transmission shifts the same quickness always. If you're in S mode, you control when the shifts happen, not the computer, so what am I missing?
When you are in S4 or above, the transmission increasingly powershifts (maintaining full throttle during the shift), which gives you that bucking surge when you shift and can spin the wheels.

It also functions as a form of traction/torque delivery control, so in poor traction conditions you could conceivably achieve better times in lower drivelogic modes.
EvenSteven is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-19-2013, 11:53 PM   #33
FVM3
Major General
 
FVM3's Avatar
 
Drives: e92 m3, f30 328i
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 5,710
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Its amazing how some people purchase this car knowing absolutely nothing about it.
FVM3 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-20-2013, 01:20 AM   #34
MysticBlue
Major
 
Drives: '09 M3 DCT Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Eastern Oregon... They call 'em rigs here

Posts: 1,217
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by flea333 View Post
1 -- More clarification -- so the Power button is not on Manual transmissions correct?

2 -- What do you mean by "shift faster and more aggressively"? I'm pretty sure the transmission shifts the same quickness always. If you're in S mode, you control when the shifts happen, not the computer, so what am I missing?
1 Power button exists on manual also. The only time I used it in my Z4M manual was on the track because it made rev matching downshifts at high rpm work better. My DCT rev matches on it's own, and I prefer smoothness to jerkiness, and since it adds no performance in any way shape or form, I never use it now.
2 The "speed of a shift" is kind of a semantic, nebulous thing when it comes to a DCT. I'll just say this... it shifts smoother at lower numbers, it shifts more aggressively at higher settings. While shifting at lower rpm and lower throttle position, ie, barely accelerating, the lower settings will cause it take longer to shift, higher settings will cause it to shift quicker. While shifting at higher rpm and higher throttle position, it shifts equally quick, but with more of a power shift surge at the higher settings. Rather than try to decifer others descriptions, go feel it for yourself.
__________________
Active Autowerke filter, Dinan underdrive pulley, Dinan full exhaust and software, 3.45 Differential, Springs, Brakes, Dinan/HRE wheels, 275/30-19 w/10mm spacer, 295/30-19 w/3mm spacer, painted front reflectors, 30% tint, Escort 8500i & Lidar Jammer, AngeliBright halos, Euro rear foglights, 3M ClearBra.
MysticBlue is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-21-2013, 12:20 AM   #35
flea333
Lieutenant
 
flea333's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 M3 ZCP, LMB, DCT
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: South Bay Area, CA

Posts: 433
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 328i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticBlue View Post
1 Power button exists on manual also. The only time I used it in my Z4M manual was on the track because it made rev matching downshifts at high rpm work better. My DCT rev matches on it's own, and I prefer smoothness to jerkiness, and since it adds no performance in any way shape or form, I never use it now.
2 The "speed of a shift" is kind of a semantic, nebulous thing when it comes to a DCT. I'll just say this... it shifts smoother at lower numbers, it shifts more aggressively at higher settings. While shifting at lower rpm and lower throttle position, ie, barely accelerating, the lower settings will cause it take longer to shift, higher settings will cause it to shift quicker. While shifting at higher rpm and higher throttle position, it shifts equally quick, but with more of a power shift surge at the higher settings. Rather than try to decifer others descriptions, go feel it for yourself.
Ok I finally get it. I drove up in the hills today and got to throttle it hard. I definitely noticed the hard shifts.

So for Drive mode not only does it shift sooner but does it also change the hardness of clutch engagement?
__________________
2013 M3 LMB, DCT, ZCP, Premium, EPS, Bamboo Beige, Apps, sunroof
flea333 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-21-2013, 03:58 AM   #36
EvenSteven
Banned
 
EvenSteven's Avatar
 
Drives: '11 m3
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: United States

Posts: 400
iTrader: (0)

For the third time, the DCT shifts exactly the same speed/force no matter what the setting. Google quickshifting vs. powershifting.

Seriously, asking questions that can easily be answered by a simple search is one thing, asking the same question in the same thread over and over is remedial. May god have mercy on your souls.
EvenSteven is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-21-2013, 04:45 AM   #37
///M Power-Belgium
Brigadier General
 
///M Power-Belgium's Avatar
 
Drives: ///M3-DCT- E92 Silverstone II
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Belgium

Posts: 3,017
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by flea333 View Post
Ok I finally get it. I drove up in the hills today and got to throttle it hard. I definitely noticed the hard shifts.

So for Drive mode not only does it shift sooner but does it also change the hardness of clutch engagement?
Best thing in your case that you can do my friend is ;
1- Be calm .
2- Try everything out (and feel the difference)
3- And feel in person the answers of your questions .
Good luck ...and drive the sh@t out of it...because she is made for it
__________________
BPM DEV-Tune & DCT software & Servotronic & coding///Alpine HID Angeleyes///Oem.exhaust mod.[/size]
///M Power-Belgium is offline   Belgium
0
Reply With Quote
      10-21-2013, 04:53 AM   #38
SenorFunkyPants
Colonel
 
SenorFunkyPants's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 DCT M3
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: UK

Posts: 2,259
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Best thing in your case that you can do my friend is ;
1- Be calm .
2- Try everything out (and feel the difference)
3- And feel in person the answers of your questions .
Except perhaps the DSC...this I would leave switched on at least for a while and especially when the roads are wet or at low temps.
__________________
SenorFunkyPants is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      10-21-2013, 04:59 AM   #39
///M Power-Belgium
Brigadier General
 
///M Power-Belgium's Avatar
 
Drives: ///M3-DCT- E92 Silverstone II
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Belgium

Posts: 3,017
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorFunkyPants View Post
Except perhaps the DSC...this I would leave switched on at least for a while and especially when the roads are wet or at low temps.
Spot on my friend !
__________________
BPM DEV-Tune & DCT software & Servotronic & coding///Alpine HID Angeleyes///Oem.exhaust mod.[/size]
///M Power-Belgium is offline   Belgium
0
Reply With Quote
      10-23-2013, 12:23 AM   #40
golfnutintib
New Member
 
Drives: 2009 E90 335i, 2011 E92 M3
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: San Francisco CA USA

Posts: 25
iTrader: (0)

+1 absolutely...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cambit View Post
just to be devil's advocate, the search function on this forum sucks balls. this is 2013, we need a Wiki style compendium of all M3 knowledge.
golfnutintib is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      10-24-2013, 09:08 AM   #41
Rbembas_M3
First Lieutenant
 
Rbembas_M3's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW 2011 M3
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: BUFORD GA

Posts: 367
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 BMW M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by flea333 View Post
I combed through the manual and found nothing on these topics. I had setup my M button, but was still curious how these different modes actually change the vehicle dynamics. I can't really experience the car outside a race track so I don't think really understanding how these settings impact driving unless you're really driving the car the way it was designed, that's what these settings are for.

I did find the supplementary M manual that explained these settings briefly. Drivelogic isn't explained much as to how it impacts driving experience and what it's used for. The Power button was explained in this manual as throttle sensitivity, which makes sense. Basically the same thing my BMS power box did for my 328i.

When I first bought the car I didn't even know how to put it into gear...I had only test driven a manual. How's that for not knowing a car?
I found this manual it helped me a lot. I just bought my M3. I went to two different dealers and even they could instruct me on the drivelogic.
Attached Images
File Type: pdf 2011_M3_Supplementary_OwnersManual[1].pdf (4.90 MB, 78 views)
__________________

2011 M3 Coupe, Jerez Black, DCT,EDC,DSC
Rbembas_M3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2013, 04:53 AM   #42
flea333
Lieutenant
 
flea333's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 M3 ZCP, LMB, DCT
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: South Bay Area, CA

Posts: 433
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 328i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvenSteven View Post
For the third time, the DCT shifts exactly the same speed/force no matter what the setting. Google quickshifting vs. powershifting.

Seriously, asking questions that can easily be answered by a simple search is one thing, asking the same question in the same thread over and over is remedial. May god have mercy on your souls.
I've never heard of powershifting. This is my first race car owned, and I've never raced a manual to learn about shifting other than regular quickshifting. That's why I was so curious about what Drivelogic actually does since I figured an automatic (or DCT) always has to work the same way. Obviously not in a race car like this.

So finally, Drivelogic is simply controlling the throttle amount while switching, the higher the Drivelogic selected, the more throttle is maintained through the shifts. For whatever reason that wasn't coming through to me before with generic descriptions like "shifting agressively". Of course, this is in the S mode. In D/S mode, it also includes earlier shift points.

Now this is the explanation I've been wanting and now I understand what is actually going on for once.

Looks like God did have mercy! Thanks!
__________________
2013 M3 LMB, DCT, ZCP, Premium, EPS, Bamboo Beige, Apps, sunroof

Last edited by flea333; 10-30-2013 at 04:59 AM.
flea333 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2013, 10:41 AM   #43
Rbembas_M3
First Lieutenant
 
Rbembas_M3's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW 2011 M3
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: BUFORD GA

Posts: 367
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2011 BMW M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by flea333 View Post
I've never heard of powershifting. This is my first race car owned, and I've never raced a manual to learn about shifting other than regular quickshifting. That's why I was so curious about what Drivelogic actually does since I figured an automatic (or DCT) always has to work the same way. Obviously not in a race car like this.

So finally, Drivelogic is simply controlling the throttle amount while switching, the higher the Drivelogic selected, the more throttle is maintained through the shifts. For whatever reason that wasn't coming through to me before with generic descriptions like "shifting agressively". Of course, this is in the S mode. In D/S mode, it also includes earlier shift points.

Now this is the explanation I've been wanting and now I understand what is actually going on for once.

Looks like God did have mercy! Thanks!
here is another manual that may help even more
Attached Images
File Type: pdf 2011 MDCT Manual 10-24-13.pdf (1.56 MB, 78 views)
__________________

2011 M3 Coupe, Jerez Black, DCT,EDC,DSC
Rbembas_M3 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      10-30-2013, 11:18 AM   #44
FlyM3_R1
Smooth shifts
 
FlyM3_R1's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 6MT
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Austin, TX

Posts: 63
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 E92  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasSpartan View Post
I didn't know what the "M" button did when I bought my car. Like someone said, I knew it was a E92 M3. I test drove a couple at whatever setting the dealer had it set at and that was all I needed to know. It's disappointing to see when new people show up on the forum to see them get hammered by some of you. I consider myself still "new" as I certainly do not know everything there is to know about my car. When I installed my backup camera on my car I found a lot of useful information from people on here willing to help. True car enthusiasts will talk about their cars all day long even if it's about the most basic of topics.
If not for new members, this forum will die and given the current state of the admins banning people on a weekly basis, it may not take that long.
+1 ... I'm new here and dread the day I ask a question about my M3. I guess I'd better read this manual and study every page before I dare ask a question here. Kinda sucks really.
FlyM3_R1 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:16 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST