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      10-14-2013, 11:00 AM   #1
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E90 M3 vs. GT-R vs. ZR-1

Hey guys, posted this in the track section, but figured I'd show this here in the vs. section as well. It's pretty obvious how much faster the vette and Gtr are, on the straights, but our lowly "non" sports car sedan/coupe does pretty well against the big boys...

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      10-14-2013, 12:28 PM   #2
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good old Road America - love it!

however, this video really only speaks to your skills as a driver vs. theirs. so props for you.
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      10-14-2013, 12:38 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brosef View Post
good old Road America - love it!

however, this video really only speaks to your skills as a driver vs. theirs. so props for you.
totally agreed

love seeing m3s on the track!

cant wait for my next event!
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      10-14-2013, 01:28 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brosef
good old Road America - love it!

however, this video really only speaks to your skills as a driver vs. theirs. so props for you.
Thanks dude, appreciate the love, and yes, had to drive the piss out of the car to keep up, but love the fact that its even possible. It's not like the other cars were taking it easy, this is the advanced group, but no doubt they could have gone much faster...I still totally adore this car, especially after a weekend like this
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      10-14-2013, 02:09 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
totally agreed

love seeing m3s on the track!

cant wait for my next event!
thanks! and my next event won't be till next spring be sure to post videos so us winter folk can deal
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      10-15-2013, 10:32 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klammer View Post
Thanks dude, appreciate the love, and yes, had to drive the piss out of the car to keep up, but love the fact that its even possible. It's not like the other cars were taking it easy, this is the advanced group, but no doubt they could have gone much faster...I still totally adore this car, especially after a weekend like this
Man, don't kid yourself. Your tricked out 3 series family car isn't even in the same time dimension as a proper supercar. That's the problem with all those videos of M3 vs Vette/GTR/Lambo/Ferrari. It's apples vs oranges. Those drivers in the ZR1 and GTR are either not that good or were not pushing to the limit. If they were both, they would have disappeared into the horizon in the first few seconds of the video. Both A ZR1 and a GTR lap the ring about 45 seconds faster than an M3. Heck, even a BASE MODEL C6 vette with Z51 package is 6 seconds faster than an E92 M3. And it isn't just down to straight line speed. If it was, then a Veyron would also have respectable lap times, but we all know a Veyron is rubbish on the track. A few months ago on Cayuga i got totally smoked by a 997.2 GT3RS, a car that is actually slower than the ZR1 or GTR. In less than half a lap he was well on his way and by the end of the lap he was a spec in the horizon. And that was on a short track where power and straightline speed isn't that significant. And I wasn't exactly slow, all my laps were 1:25 at most. The M3 is a pretty good car. But let's not kid ourselves. We're not driving anything close to a supercar. I'm sure over on the GTR or Vette forums, a couple of guys started new threads with something like: "I was on road america lapping about 7/10th relaxing and enjoying the warm sunny afternoon with a GTR/Zr1 nearby and there was this crazy dude in an M3 sedan driving at the absolute limit trying to keep up with us"
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      10-15-2013, 10:57 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedaddictM3
Quote:
Originally Posted by klammer View Post
Thanks dude, appreciate the love, and yes, had to drive the piss out of the car to keep up, but love the fact that its even possible. It's not like the other cars were taking it easy, this is the advanced group, but no doubt they could have gone much faster...I still totally adore this car, especially after a weekend like this
Man, don't kid yourself. Your tricked out 3 series family car isn't even in the same time dimension as a proper supercar. That's the problem with all those videos of M3 vs Vette/GTR/Lambo/Ferrari. It's apples vs oranges. Those drivers in the ZR1 and GTR are either not that good or were not pushing to the limit. If they were both, they would have disappeared into the horizon in the first few seconds of the video. Both A ZR1 and a GTR lap the ring about 45 seconds faster than an M3. Heck, even a BASE MODEL C6 vette with Z51 package is 6 seconds faster than an E92 M3. And it isn't just down to straight line speed. If it was, then a Veyron would also have respectable lap times, but we all know a Veyron is rubbish on the track. A few months ago on Cayuga i got totally smoked by a 997.2 GT3RS, a car that is actually slower than the ZR1 or GTR. In less than half a lap he was well on his way and by the end of the lap he was a spec in the horizon. And that was on a short track where power and straightline speed isn't that significant. And I wasn't exactly slow, all my laps were 1:25 at most. The M3 is a pretty good car. But let's not kid ourselves. We're not driving anything close to a supercar. I'm sure over on the GTR or Vette forums, a couple of guys started new threads with something like: "I was on road america lapping about 7/10th relaxing and enjoying the warm sunny afternoon with a GTR/Zr1 nearby and there was this crazy dude in an M3 sedan driving at the absolute limit trying to keep up with us"
Did I ever say it was as fast? Did I day it was a super car? What a dick! All I'm doing is showing some of the capability of a 4 door non-sports car, on M3 post mind you, and that a car that is obviously slower, notice the straights, can keep up...running mid 2:30's at RA is not 7/10ths in almost anything other than a full on race car...sorry I wont post anything ever again here, don't want to continue to "embarrass" myself in front of all these super cars!
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      10-15-2013, 11:06 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedaddictM3 View Post
Man, don't kid yourself. Your tricked out 3 series family car isn't even in the same time dimension as a proper supercar. That's the problem with all those videos of M3 vs Vette/GTR/Lambo/Ferrari. It's apples vs oranges. Those drivers in the ZR1 and GTR are either not that good or were not pushing to the limit. If they were both, they would have disappeared into the horizon in the first few seconds of the video. Both A ZR1 and a GTR lap the ring about 45 seconds faster than an M3. Heck, even a BASE MODEL C6 vette with Z51 package is 6 seconds faster than an E92 M3. And it isn't just down to straight line speed. If it was, then a Veyron would also have respectable lap times, but we all know a Veyron is rubbish on the track. A few months ago on Cayuga i got totally smoked by a 997.2 GT3RS, a car that is actually slower than the ZR1 or GTR. In less than half a lap he was well on his way and by the end of the lap he was a spec in the horizon. And that was on a short track where power and straightline speed isn't that significant. And I wasn't exactly slow, all my laps were 1:25 at most. The M3 is a pretty good car. But let's not kid ourselves. We're not driving anything close to a supercar. I'm sure over on the GTR or Vette forums, a couple of guys started new threads with something like: "I was on road america lapping about 7/10th relaxing and enjoying the warm sunny afternoon with a GTR/Zr1 nearby and there was this crazy dude in an M3 sedan driving at the absolute limit trying to keep up with us"
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      10-15-2013, 11:08 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klammer View Post
Did I ever say it was as fast? Did I day it was a super car? What a dick! All I'm doing is showing some of the capability of a 4 door non-sports car, on M3 post mind you, and that a car that is obviously slower, notice the straights, can keep up...running mid 2:30's at RA is not 7/10ths in almost anything other than a full on race car...sorry I wont post anything ever again here, don't want to continue to "embarrass" myself in front of all these super cars!
Looked pretty bad ass to me. No one on that track is getting paid to drive so who cares. Dont listen to the haters. Keep up the vids.
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      10-15-2013, 11:08 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedaddictM3 View Post
Man, don't kid yourself. Your tricked out 3 series family car isn't even in the same time dimension as a proper supercar. That's the problem with all those videos of M3 vs Vette/GTR/Lambo/Ferrari. It's apples vs oranges. Those drivers in the ZR1 and GTR are either not that good or were not pushing to the limit. If they were both, they would have disappeared into the horizon in the first few seconds of the video. Both A ZR1 and a GTR lap the ring about 45 seconds faster than an M3. Heck, even a BASE MODEL C6 vette with Z51 package is 6 seconds faster than an E92 M3. And it isn't just down to straight line speed. If it was, then a Veyron would also have respectable lap times, but we all know a Veyron is rubbish on the track. A few months ago on Cayuga i got totally smoked by a 997.2 GT3RS, a car that is actually slower than the ZR1 or GTR. In less than half a lap he was well on his way and by the end of the lap he was a spec in the horizon. And that was on a short track where power and straightline speed isn't that significant. And I wasn't exactly slow, all my laps were 1:25 at most. The M3 is a pretty good car. But let's not kid ourselves. We're not driving anything close to a supercar. I'm sure over on the GTR or Vette forums, a couple of guys started new threads with something like: "I was on road america lapping about 7/10th relaxing and enjoying the warm sunny afternoon with a GTR/Zr1 nearby and there was this crazy dude in an M3 sedan driving at the absolute limit trying to keep up with us"
Take it easy dude. Nobody is claiming the M3 is a supercar and he acknowledged that "no doubt they could have gone much faster." The guy just happens to love his car (this is an M3 forum after all) and had a great time enjoying it at the track.
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      10-15-2013, 11:29 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by okusa View Post
Take it easy dude. Nobody is claiming the M3 is a supercar and he acknowledged that "no doubt they could have gone much faster." The guy just happens to love his car (this is an M3 forum after all) and had a great time enjoying it at the track.
I agree. We all love our cars and many of us enjoy them on the track. But let's be honest. The M3 is by no means a "fast" car nowadays. A lot has happened since it came out in 2007. Recently, the Z28, yep, a glorified Camaro, lapped the ring half a minute faster than an E92 M3. The M3 is a pretty good car, we all agree. But let's remain objective and not get too carried away with our emotions.
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      10-15-2013, 11:40 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedaddictM3
Quote:
Originally Posted by klammer View Post
Thanks dude, appreciate the love, and yes, had to drive the piss out of the car to keep up, but love the fact that its even possible. It's not like the other cars were taking it easy, this is the advanced group, but no doubt they could have gone much faster...I still totally adore this car, especially after a weekend like this
Man, don't kid yourself. Your tricked out 3 series family car isn't even in the same time dimension as a proper supercar. That's the problem with all those videos of M3 vs Vette/GTR/Lambo/Ferrari. It's apples vs oranges. Those drivers in the ZR1 and GTR are either not that good or were not pushing to the limit. If they were both, they would have disappeared into the horizon in the first few seconds of the video. Both A ZR1 and a GTR lap the ring about 45 seconds faster than an M3. Heck, even a BASE MODEL C6 vette with Z51 package is 6 seconds faster than an E92 M3. And it isn't just down to straight line speed. If it was, then a Veyron would also have respectable lap times, but we all know a Veyron is rubbish on the track. A few months ago on Cayuga i got totally smoked by a 997.2 GT3RS, a car that is actually slower than the ZR1 or GTR. In less than half a lap he was well on his way and by the end of the lap he was a spec in the horizon. And that was on a short track where power and straightline speed isn't that significant. And I wasn't exactly slow, all my laps were 1:25 at most. The M3 is a pretty good car. But let's not kid ourselves. We're not driving anything close to a supercar. I'm sure over on the GTR or Vette forums, a couple of guys started new threads with something like: "I was on road america lapping about 7/10th relaxing and enjoying the warm sunny afternoon with a GTR/Zr1 nearby and there was this crazy dude in an M3 sedan driving at the absolute limit trying to keep up with us"
At least you were running Cayuga as fast as genesis coupe and slower than a ford focus...
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...est-track.html
Any vids of you up against that beast
And thanks guys, thought I put enough qualifiers out there to not get this type of response, but guess not...
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Last edited by klammer; 10-15-2013 at 12:40 PM.
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      10-15-2013, 12:12 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klammer View Post
And thanks guys, thought I put enough qualifiers out there to not get this type of response, but guess not...
We enjoyed the video. Haters are gonna hate, so pay him no mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedaddictM3 View Post
That's the problem with all those videos of M3 vs Vette/GTR/Lambo/Ferrari. It's apples vs oranges.
....says the guy that then went on to compare a stock E92 to a Camaro specifically built for track purposes

Most of your posts on this forum denigrate the M3, so I'm hard pressed to understand why you have one.

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      10-15-2013, 12:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by klammer View Post
At least you were running Cayuga as fast as genesis coupe and slower than a ford focus...
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...est-track.html
Any vids of you up against that beast
And thanks guys, thought I put enough qualifiers out there to not get this type of response, but guess not...
Hey, I did have worn out brakes so I did brake early on the 2 main straights!
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      10-15-2013, 01:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whats77inaname View Post
....says the guy that then went on to compare a stock E92 to a Camaro specifically built for track purposes
Did you miss the part where the camaro was built on a family car platform?

A Vette Z06 or 911 GT3 RS is specifically built for the track from the ground up. A Camaro, even a Z28 isn't. The Z28 is extensively modified for the track, but it wasn't engineered from the ground up to be a track vehicle. Kinda like the M3 GTS. Oh wait, how much did that GTS cost? And how fast was its Ring lap? Still over half a minute slower than the GTR or Zr1.
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      10-15-2013, 01:53 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedaddictM3 View Post
Did you miss the part where the camaro was built on a family car platform?

A Vette Z06 or 911 GT3 RS is specifically built for the track from the ground up. A Camaro, even a Z28 isn't. The Z28 is extensively modified for the track, but it wasn't engineered from the ground up to be a track vehicle. Kinda like the M3 GTS. Oh wait, how much did that GTS cost? And how fast was its Ring lap? Still over half a minute slower than the GTR or Zr1.
The platform I can care less about, b/c it can be altered to meet design requirements. And I didn't say the Z/28 was engineered from the ground up to be a track vehicle, I said it was "specifically built for track purposes".

BMW's design and performance philosophy greatly differ than that of Chevy. As do their price points. Whereas M used to about performance and light vehicles, they've strayed from the path and as such, have suffered. I'm sure we'll see where the new M3 stands in the next couple months.
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      10-15-2013, 02:12 PM   #17
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The platform I can care less about, b/c it can be altered to meet design requirements. .
Only within limits. You can't just turn any platform into any car you want just by spending $$$ on it. A platform will always place limits on size, weight, and handling abilities. Sure you can modify this component or upgrade that component, but there is a limit. Eventually you reach a certain point where the only way to go faster is to ditch the platform and create a whole new one. Also, you still ignored my point about how the M3 GTS is just as extensively modified for the track as the Z28, and cost way more money, only to put out a disappointing 7:48 Ring lap time, a mere 2 seconds faster than the M3 CSL put out over 10 years go!
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      10-15-2013, 02:28 PM   #18
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Can't really compare a M3 to a GTR/Z06/ZR1. Those cars are in a WHOLE different league....
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      10-15-2013, 02:41 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Skooterbrah View Post
Can't really compare a M3 to a GTR/Z06/ZR1. Those cars are in a WHOLE different league....
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      10-15-2013, 02:53 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedaddictM3 View Post
Man, don't kid yourself. Your tricked out 3 series family car isn't even in the same time dimension as a proper supercar. That's the problem with all those videos of M3 vs Vette/GTR/Lambo/Ferrari. It's apples vs oranges. Those drivers in the ZR1 and GTR are either not that good or were not pushing to the limit. If they were both, they would have disappeared into the horizon in the first few seconds of the video. Both A ZR1 and a GTR lap the ring about 45 seconds faster than an M3. Heck, even a BASE MODEL C6 vette with Z51 package is 6 seconds faster than an E92 M3. And it isn't just down to straight line speed. If it was, then a Veyron would also have respectable lap times, but we all know a Veyron is rubbish on the track. A few months ago on Cayuga i got totally smoked by a 997.2 GT3RS, a car that is actually slower than the ZR1 or GTR. In less than half a lap he was well on his way and by the end of the lap he was a spec in the horizon. And that was on a short track where power and straightline speed isn't that significant. And I wasn't exactly slow, all my laps were 1:25 at most. The M3 is a pretty good car. But let's not kid ourselves. We're not driving anything close to a supercar. I'm sure over on the GTR or Vette forums, a couple of guys started new threads with something like: "I was on road america lapping about 7/10th relaxing and enjoying the warm sunny afternoon with a GTR/Zr1 nearby and there was this crazy dude in an M3 sedan driving at the absolute limit trying to keep up with us"
Don't be a Debbie Downer
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      10-15-2013, 02:58 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skooterbrah
Can't really compare a M3 to a GTR/Z06/ZR1. Those cars are in a WHOLE different league....
And yet this is what this video shows in real world conditions...an unscientific, highly variable, comparison...what's wrong with you people :
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      10-15-2013, 03:59 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedaddictM3 View Post
Only within limits. You can't just turn any platform into any car you want just by spending $$$ on it. A platform will always place limits on size, weight, and handling abilities. Sure you can modify this component or upgrade that component, but there is a limit. Eventually you reach a certain point where the only way to go faster is to ditch the platform and create a whole new one. Also, you still ignored my point about how the M3 GTS is just as extensively modified for the track as the Z28, and cost way more money, only to put out a disappointing 7:48 Ring lap time, a mere 2 seconds faster than the M3 CSL put out over 10 years go!
No, I didn't ignore your point, I addressed it by saying that the BMW's and Chevy's design and performance philosophy differ. As of late, Chevy has delivered some fast, fast cars and they offer great performance for
the dollar, where BMW is getting away from that very philosophy by focusing on their shareholders. It sucks when accountants determine what is made as opposed to the engineers and designers that are passionate about cars and driving. VW loses millions on every Veyron (if you take into account R&D, tooling and equipment vs quantity sold), but they take it in stride and keep producing that beast.

On the subject of ignored commentary, I posted this awhile back and there has still been no response from you:

Quote:
Originally Posted by whats77inaname
Most of your posts on this forum denigrate the M3, so I'm hard pressed to understand why you have one.
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