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      11-05-2013, 04:07 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by 991GT3 View Post
Warranties get voided by practically all manufacturers if there's abuse.
I don't disagree that Nissan handled it poorly but most transmission failures were abused. Nissan should never of had the LC ability in the 2009 and things would have been fine.
The problem was that LC1, the original launch control program revved to 4700 rpms. After about 20 launches, the trany was toast! After the problems, all the 09s (many of which hadn't been sold yet) were reprogramed with LC2, which only revved to 3000 rpms. This caused much less stress on the trany and solved the problems. I believe there all the way up to LC5 now(back up around 4K rpms), but I could be wrong about that.
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      11-05-2013, 04:18 PM   #134
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Give it a rest guys, M3 cannot compete with a GTR without dumping tens of thousands into it. Its OK. I am currently on my 2nd M3 but also had a GTR, stock for stock, no match, 30K invested into each car, still no match. I came back to the M3 for a simpler car, 6MT, RWD, no FI and lots less attention.
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      11-05-2013, 04:20 PM   #135
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      11-05-2013, 04:23 PM   #136
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The problem was that LC1, the original launch control program revved to 4700 rpms. After about 20 launches, the trany was toast! After the problems, all the 09s (many of which hadn't been sold yet) were reprogramed with LC2, which only revved to 3000 rpms. This caused much less stress on the trany and solved the problems. I believe there all the way up to LC5 now(back up around 4K rpms), but I could be wrong about that.
I don't buy that 20 launch figure but Nissan did reprogram the 09. On my first service they changed the computer settings. I never launched my 09.
When I bought a '12 and '13 they definitely tightened the operating parameters. No LC when the tranny temp was below 140 degrees and it would go into hobble mode above certain readings(though I never quite figured out what they were).
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      11-05-2013, 04:55 PM   #137
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I don't buy that 20 launch figure but Nissan did reprogram the 09. On my first service they changed the computer settings. I never launched my 09.
When I bought a '12 and '13 they definitely tightened the operating parameters. No LC when the tranny temp was below 140 degrees and it would go into hobble mode above certain readings(though I never quite figured out what they were).
3 launches back to back without drving some to clear the ecu
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      11-05-2013, 05:26 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by 991GT3 View Post
Warranties get voided by practically all manufacturers if there's abuse.
Not necessarily. Ridiculous warranty policies are established when there are number of cases where failure occurs due to abuse and the manufacturer is called to fix them, as was the case with Nissan. If there is simply abuse and nothing fails within the warranty time frame, the manufacturer can care less.

Nissan's policy was that warranties would be voided if customers just turned off their traction control.



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The GTR's transmission and diffs are a lot more robust than the M3 to handle the violence that launching the car does.
I don't know about that. They were falling apart and Nissan was voiding warranties for a reason. Unless I'm misinformed, I haven't heard of BMW doing anything similar, and I'm sure there are just as many M3 hotheads as there are GTR ones.

Nevertheless, I don't launch my car anyways because it's not a drag car. Drag racing is boring compared to the track/canyons.
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      11-05-2013, 05:36 PM   #139
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Drag racing is boring compared to the track/canyons.
^ ^ ^ the most relevant statement in this whole thread.
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      11-05-2013, 05:45 PM   #140
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^ ^ ^ the most relevant statement in this whole thread.
^ ^ ^ Only read the last sentence of the last post of the thread instead of reading the context of the last 5 posts.
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      11-05-2013, 05:57 PM   #141
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Quote:
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Not necessarily. Ridiculous warranty policies are established when there are number of cases where failure occurs due to abuse and the manufacturer is called to fix them, as was the case with Nissan. If there is simply abuse and nothing fails within the warranty time frame, the manufacturer can care less.

Nissan's policy was that warranties would be voided if customers just turned off their traction control.





I don't know about that. They were falling apart and Nissan was voiding warranties for a reason. Unless I'm misinformed, I haven't heard of BMW doing anything similar, and I'm sure there are just as many M3 hotheads as there are GTR ones.

Nevertheless, I don't launch my car anyways because it's not a drag car. Drag racing is boring compared to the track/canyons.



And BMW has never produced a car like the GTR that so much of its cache hung on straight line numbers(even though the GTRs real strength is the track). People beat the crap out of the first GTRs by launching them over and over again.
That said, Nissans response was weak.
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      11-05-2013, 05:59 PM   #142
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I don't buy that 20 launch figure
Ok, twenty consecutive launches That was just an estimate from what I read. Point is, the RPMs were to high at launch, for a bunch of consecutive gos
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      11-05-2013, 06:07 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by 991GT3 View Post
And BMW has never produced a car like the GTR that so much of its cache hung on straight line numbers(even though the GTRs real strength is the track). People beat the crap out of the first GTRs by launching them over and over again.
That said, Nissans response was weak.
Yeah, I can see your point. Nissan did try to back pedal on their policy at least.
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      11-05-2013, 06:18 PM   #144
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Quote:
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I don't know about that. They were falling apart and Nissan was voiding warranties for a reason. Unless I'm misinformed, I haven't heard of BMW doing anything similar, and I'm sure there are just as many M3 hotheads as there are GTR ones.

Nevertheless, I don't launch my car anyways because it's not a drag car. Drag racing is boring compared to the track/canyons.
Well, if BMW made a AWD car that launched as hard as the GTR, it would have similar or worse problems. BMW doesn't make a GTR competitor and so it doesn't have to build the car to handle the stress.

As for M3 drag launch problems, people are snapping the rear diff bolts due to soft mounts in the rear of the M3 so it clearly can't take hard launches continuously.
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      11-05-2013, 06:49 PM   #145
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Not all transmissions blow due to repeated launches since I tore a piston seal on the back stretch of VIR shifting from 3rd to 4th, I had no power mods, only suspension and brakes, and had the tranny warrantied by Nissan. I am sure if it were tuned and running catless downpipes they may have denied the claim but no different than taking the M3 into a dealer with a SC and full exhaust.
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      11-06-2013, 09:23 AM   #146
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Quote:
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Drag racing is boring compared to the track/canyons.
i agree. nothing fun about running 13s in a m3
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      11-06-2013, 09:28 AM   #147
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i agree. nothing fun about running 13s in a m3
Even running 10s gets boring. And that was in a RWD car trying to shoot into the wall. I have never run 9s like you but I'm sure it gets boring too.

With that said I think E9x M3 are grossly under powered at this point but that's just because they are old. The M4 should have started at 500hp for the price tag it will have.
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      11-06-2013, 11:23 AM   #148
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Even running 10s gets boring. And that was in a RWD car trying to shoot into the wall. I have never run 9s like you but I'm sure it gets boring too.

With that said I think E9x M3 are grossly under powered at this point but that's just because they are old. The M4 should have started at 500hp for the price tag it will have.
Given its competition at the same price point, I cannot agree more...

It would turn a LOT more heads towards BMW and wouldn't require THAT much more engineering R&D.

BMW is all about sales right now, right? Why not get EVERYONE into an M3/4?
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      11-06-2013, 11:46 AM   #149
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Given its competition at the same price point, I cannot agree more...

It would turn a LOT more heads towards BMW and wouldn't require THAT much more engineering R&D.

BMW is all about sales right now, right? Why not get EVERYONE into an M3/4?
All they would have to do is drop an engine they already have...the s63tu...into the M4. I'm still hoping that they do that as an M4 derivative.
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      11-07-2013, 12:37 AM   #150
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Given its competition at the same price point, I cannot agree more...

It would turn a LOT more heads towards BMW and wouldn't require THAT much more engineering R&D.

BMW is all about sales right now, right? Why not get EVERYONE into an M3/4?
All they would have to do is drop an engine they already have...the s63tu...into the M4. I'm still hoping that they do that as an M4 derivative.
Problem is they never will. Reason being it would make the M3/4 faster than the M5/6 at a lower cost. Goes against basic business strategy...although it would be a SICK car! I give it a year before someone does it on their own dollar and look forward to the results!
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      11-07-2013, 09:21 AM   #151
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Quote:
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Not necessarily. Ridiculous warranty policies are established when there are number of cases where failure occurs due to abuse and the manufacturer is called to fix them, as was the case with Nissan. If there is simply abuse and nothing fails within the warranty time frame, the manufacturer can care less.

Nissan's policy was that warranties would be voided if customers just turned off their traction control.





I don't know about that. They were falling apart and Nissan was voiding warranties for a reason. Unless I'm misinformed, I haven't heard of BMW doing anything similar, and I'm sure there are just as many M3 hotheads as there are GTR ones.

Nevertheless, I don't launch my car anyways because it's not a drag car. Drag racing is boring compared to the track/canyons.

I had an issue with my GTR transmission which was honoured by Nissan. Since I live more than a 1000km from the Nissan HPC, my vehicle was shipped to Johannesburg at their cost and the transmission was replaced under warranty. Service from Nissan SA HPC is top notch and dare i say better or equivalent than BMW. As far as cancelling warranties go, many manufacturers will do so, if abuse can be proved. BMW SA cancelled the motorplan on a e92 M3 for "over revving". The full write up can be found at bmwfanatics.co.za.

BTW, have to agree with Unabomber, nothing exciting about drag racing my M3.
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      11-07-2013, 09:50 AM   #152
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Even running 10s gets boring. And that was in a RWD car trying to shoot into the wall. I have never run 9s like you but I'm sure it gets boring too.
I'll let you know shortly but you're probably right! I just bought a car that does 10's bone stock. And did a 9.83 with a tune and a couple bolt-ons. And is still warrantied with the tune and those bolt-ons! AND whose manufacturer doesn't give a crap if you do launch control 20 times in a row. In fact they've given the car to journalists to test and encouraged that behavior.
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      11-23-2013, 03:40 AM   #153
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Well, now owning both i can say this. A stock 2012 up here at altitude FEELS faster then my ESS/AR 700 M3. The tq and small twin turbos makes a HUGE difference in power delivery and even if the car isn't faster, it sure as hell feels like it is. 2 days ago installed AAM mid pipe, SBD Exhaust and had a custom 91 tune (17psi vs stock 10-11ish) and I am pretty sure she will out pull the M3, even at highway speeds. I want to line them up here before i throw the downpipes, injectors, pumps, intakes, IC piping and E85 tune (20psi) because after those all go on, I know for a fact it will BLOW my ESS/AR 700 M3 out of the water from any speed.
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      12-13-2013, 02:13 AM   #154
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And here ya go.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=923828
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