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      12-31-2013, 10:11 AM   #67
Blubaron79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LS1990
With regards to the B58 engine, IIRC there was a post around 3 - 4 months ago when speculation of the M3/M4 engine was rife... this one guy said that the B58 engine would be modified based on the below (for use in the M3/4). I've tried to search for it but can't find it, anyway from what I recall:

- 3.0L displacement
- Twin turbo-charged
- New direct-injection technology (multiple smaller injectors for each cylinder)
- 320bhp and 332ft/lbs torque output.

Again I could be off my rocker and posting garbage but I'm sure this is what I read here.
Would be nice. Skipping the N55 for myself and going from a 2 turbo N54 to a TT N58.

(Not that the N55 is a bad motor)
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      12-31-2013, 10:52 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soorena View Post
Haha

I thought whatever comes after B points to it's displacement. Does B58 means it's going to be 5.8L? BMW has gone nuts, and it's clearly showing even in the reasonably sensed subject of engine naming.
I believe whatever comes after the B is the number of .5L cylinders.

B38 = 1.5L 3cyl Gas
B37 = 1.5L 3cyl Diesel
B48 = 2.0L 4cyl Gas
B47 = 2.0L 4cyl Diesel
B58 = 3.0L 6cyl Gas
B57 = 3.0L 6cyl Diesel

Now obviously the B58/B57 don't follow these guidelines. So either they just skipped using the B68/B67 monikers, or maybe the N55 replacement code has been reported incorrectly.
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      12-31-2013, 11:28 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by termigni View Post
what makes it better? can't answer you but what makes it sell over the japanese at a premium? the BMW badge.
my close friend once told me she wants a BMW. I asked her why? she said because she wants the status. To many people, BMW doesn't have to drive like an Ultimate Driving Machine anymore.
Should have told her to buy a Mercedes lol
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      12-31-2013, 11:29 AM   #70
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Don't forget the S62 in the z8 and M5 was derived from the m62. Gasp, one of the most beloved m cars of all time was not a real m car, my life will never be the same!

The S65/85 were the exception, not the rule.


Whiners.
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      12-31-2013, 11:33 AM   #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southlight
Quote:
Originally Posted by aajami View Post
Scott said that the F30 LCI will debut at the Frankfurt IAA in 2015, which means it'll hit the market in spring of 2016.
Market launch will be around the time of IAA in Fall 2015.


Best regards,
south
Less than two years away, eh? That means 14-18 months after the F80 market launch.

Interesting.
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      12-31-2013, 11:38 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ynguldyn View Post
Since when? Or did you think that SULEVing the N20 and making it the N26 actually tacks on an extra .6l of displacement?
I assume you misread. I said B, not N. N20B20 and N26B20 both are 2.0 liters as their names suggest.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
I believe whatever comes after the B is the number of .5L cylinders.

B38 = 1.5L 3cyl Gas
B37 = 1.5L 3cyl Diesel
B48 = 2.0L 4cyl Gas
B47 = 2.0L 4cyl Diesel
B58 = 3.0L 6cyl Gas
B57 = 3.0L 6cyl Diesel

Now obviously the B58/B57 don't follow these guidelines. So either they just skipped using the B68/B67 monikers, or maybe the N55 replacement code has been reported incorrectly.
Thank you. I wasn't aware of the .5L naming policy. Way to ruin a perfectly sane naming policy though, I like the old one much better.
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      12-31-2013, 11:56 AM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soorena View Post
I assume you misread. I said B, not N. N20B20 and N26B20 both are 2.0 liters as their names suggest.
Ah, but that's still in place: the second part, with "B" for "benzin" and the displacement still exists, like this: B48B20. Or B47D20 for diesel.
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      12-31-2013, 12:24 PM   #74
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I'm trying to make sense of what people are saying and this is my 2c/pence worth


BMW seem to be going for market share which is understandable, but exclusivity in their principles was what made them special. I'm not sure it is possible to have an exclusive popular brand, that seems to be an illusion at best and oxymoronic at worst.

The trouble for a lot of fans is that the genericness of this new popular approach is that the other end of the brand is being eroded too, M now means modified not what it used to. I actually find the i models more exciting, at least they are different to anything else on the market... But how long will it be before we get hybrid sport trims like i228 I-sport?

I get the need to compete with Audi, but imitating them is not the way. VW group have high value brands like Porsche and Lamborghini to fall back on, and halo supercars. BMW has nothing of the sort except M... Which from the days of the E36 have been stickered more and more onto regular models.

Maybe it's time for something above M?

PS the X1 is nowhere near as good looking as the F31 in my view and I'd take the 3 series any day
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      12-31-2013, 12:29 PM   #75
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I've just updated the original post with some fresh data.
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      12-31-2013, 01:52 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamS View Post
I believe whatever comes after the B is the number of .5L cylinders.

B38 = 1.5L 3cyl Gas
B37 = 1.5L 3cyl Diesel
B48 = 2.0L 4cyl Gas
B47 = 2.0L 4cyl Diesel
B58 = 3.0L 6cyl Gas
B57 = 3.0L 6cyl Diesel

Now obviously the B58/B57 don't follow these guidelines. So either they just skipped using the B68/B67 monikers, or maybe the N55 replacement code has been reported incorrectly.
B is just a code for a new generation of engines.

It was M, then N (which actually stands for New Generation) and now it appears to be B.
Numbers that come after the second B(which stands for Benzene) or D(Diesel) show the displacement.

BMW didn't skip anything, they use the same system to show cylinder numbers for over 20 years now

N2# - 4cyl (successor to NA 6cyl)
B3# - 3 cylinder (new)
M4#, N4#, B4# - 4cyl
M5#, S5#, N5#, B5# - 6cyl
M6#, S6#, N6# - 8cyl
M7#, S7#, N7# - 12cyl
S8# - 10cyl

Last edited by SickFinga; 12-31-2013 at 06:25 PM.
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      12-31-2013, 02:00 PM   #77
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Dilution or extinction, what would you rather have?
It is the same, dilution will lead to extinction. That's the point.
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      12-31-2013, 02:05 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soorena View Post
Thank you. I wasn't aware of the .5L naming policy. Way to ruin a perfectly sane naming policy though, I like the old one much better.
I was wrong about about how they're using the number after the B. See below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by SickFinga View Post
B is just a code for a new generation of engines.

It was M, then N (which actually stands for New Generation) and now it appears to be B.
Numbers that come after the second B show the displacement.

BMW didn't skip anything, they use the same system to show cylinder numbers for over 20 years now

N2# - 4cyl (successor to NA 6cyl)
B3# - 3 cylinder (new)
M4#, N4#, B4# - 4cyl
M5#, S5#, N5#, B5# - 6cyl
M6#, S6#, N6# - 8cyl
M7#, S7#, N7# - 12cyl
S8# - 10cyl
Thanks, very helpful.
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      12-31-2013, 04:47 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nantucket View Post
It would be fantastic Scott if one of those new M models is the M2.
No, going to be new X5 M and X6 M.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarian19 View Post
Any technical info on the B58?
Same engine as B38 (found in BMW i8) multiplied by two. Won't have +400 PS however.
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      01-01-2014, 12:08 AM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richbot View Post
Don't forget the S62 in the z8 and M5 was derived from the m62. Gasp, one of the most beloved m cars of all time was not a real m car, my life will never be the same!

The S65/85 were the exception, not the rule.


Whiners.
Z8...one of the most overrated BMW's ever.
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      01-01-2014, 10:21 AM   #81
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No, going to be new X5 M and X6 M.
F83 M4 Cabrio needs to come out before X6M.
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      01-01-2014, 12:51 PM   #82
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Originally Posted by BlackJetE90 View Post
Z8...one of the most overrated BMW's ever.
I had a Z8, loved it, never saw them on the street. Didnt drive great but for what it was I loved it....oh and btw, they now are worth more than what they originally sold for by a lot..
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      01-01-2014, 04:23 PM   #83
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Quote:
Please don't sell us the line that you're making exciting "products"
You're selling out very rule in the BMW rule book, one by one
No M SUV, no diesel M, no turbo charging M, no fwd etc
NO M SUV.
The Rules have changed 10 years ago BMW only had the. M3 and M5 but the market had grown to an extent that customers wanted Performance SUVs. Porsche broke that rule when it discovered there is a market for a high Performance SUV.
Growth markets responded to such concepts that the X6 M outsells the other M models in many important markets and is considered by M as a " Volume seller".
The next growth segment will be high performance of the mid-entry and compact segments. These choices will be determined by sales response to the New BMW X4 and. X1 respectively before given the green light.

M PERFORMANCE
In Europe many countries have high taxation and fuel costs on high performance vehicles. The M Performance brand was brought in to combat that by offering customers high performance but without high taxation or fuel costs.
The M Performance brand is successful because it combats these issues respectively it also allows BMW M to include the aspects normally not considered for an M vehicle such as Diesel and All Wheel Drive. These are actually demanded by M customers in Europe for future vehicles.
This is not just about North America. M is in other markets as well.

M & TURBO CHARGING
Yes they did say that , but then the legislation on emissions requested on auto manufacturers changed the rulesfor everyone. BMW M. Had to progress and to make their vehicles compatible had to resort to Turbo charging to reach emission targets. If they did not do this M would not exist for Road cars any longer.

No FWD.
This will only feature with models shared with MINI.
The market has progressed and no manufacturer can overlook growth especially in emerging and existing markets. Premium compact cars in Europe have decimated volume selling compact cars in a huge segment that is entirely significant to any premium manufacturer. In segments you have to win you have to competitive. These segments are not about high performance this is purely about the car for specific needs but a car with image and desirability.
To win sales this car must be competitive in each respective segment a vehicle like the Active Tourer as an example needs to compete in an ordain segment it has to be competitive in interior space and it has to stand out amongst other vehicles which although in appearance are completely ordinary are still competitive.

There is customers waiting for a vehicle like the Active Tourer and there will be customers that want the Active Tourer. But the philosophy continues just as BMW conceived the X5. A vehicle that is more closer and directed to the road than any other in the segment but every bit as competitive in areas that matter most in that segment.

PROGRESS
I have previously mentioned all this before but people still refuse to accept that it is not the company that defines these choices but the progress of the entire industry and the customer. BMW is a progressive brand because they accept responsibility and they set out to find solutions for the issues that matter and are urgent. BMW is Independent because they understand the need to progress and adapt. It is then up to the customer if they will progress and adapt and some of you will not because you long for those years in the past. A time which cannot exist now due to the changes in all demographics.

BMWs success is down to the development and progression of the brand.
Premium desirability is as important as ever , as is image and the force to innovate. BMW have retained these qualities within each vehicle as each vehicle leads that respective segment.

In Munich there is a saying "we know what they are doing because we have done or are doing it" it was by Norbert Reithofer the BMW CEO referring to a competitor who are following with the same vehicle product lines because they are the key to future growth , customer requirements and progress.

Everything happens because of progress. Not just one mans decision.
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      01-01-2014, 07:40 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LS1990 View Post
With regards to the B58 engine, IIRC there was a post around 3 - 4 months ago when speculation of the M3/M4 engine was rife... this one guy said that the B58 engine would be modified based on the below (for use in the M3/4). I've tried to search for it but can't find it, anyway from what I recall:

- 3.0L displacement
- Twin turbo-charged
- New direct-injection technology (multiple smaller injectors for each cylinder)
- 320bhp and 332ft/lbs torque output.

Again I could be off my rocker and posting garbage but I'm sure this is what I read here.
I would have guessed that again a single twin scroll turbocharger will be used in the B58.
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      01-03-2014, 06:44 AM   #85
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OK, Scott26 fair enough I understand what you are saying about BMW's new direction. But lets set few things straight.

When you claim that BMW adapts to customer needs and it will not exist without meeting their demands, I am with you 100%.

Now lets get few things straight. There will be no BMW today if there were no loyal customers who bought BMW cars year after year all based on BMW core beliefs of making exciting and fun cars with great driving dynamics.

If BMW even exists today it is because people desired the BMW vehicles with a DNA that carried the core ideas. To abandon these customers in hope of new ones is a bad business. A good business model will never lose its core customers. Instead it will build upon them. You know BMW in past was really good at that, as sales each year climbed higher and higher. The BMW name immediately was recognized as a performance luxury power house by all in automotive industry, the accolades and awards came so easy because you bucked the trend in a good way.

Sure BMW sales were no where near that of Toyota, nor BMW reliability, nor fuel economy, and nor price. But people who wanted BMW knew they had a choice of Toyota all day every day and passed up on it to deal with a car that was more finicky with reliability, expensive to maintain, and cost far more. In other words these BMW buyers used to pass up on a car that is 6/10th to 7/10th all around for practicality & daily use and instead paid more to jump into a BMW that was 5/10th in most categories except for 9/10th to 10/10th in performance, excitement, fun do to drive ratio, and grin inducting factors.

No one says you should not improve on 5/10th areas to bring more customers via innovations. However, do not sacrifice the 9/10th to 10/10th in performance, excitement, fun to drive ratio, and grin inducting factors in the name of attracting masses to buy a new BMW. Since BMW is independent company it should stick to core beliefs and then make sure all innovations, updates and improvements improve the breed in more evolutionary fashion. No need to reinvent the wheel in terms of making mundane and boring appliances.

For some reason you do not realize that most older customers have no problems with innovation. The problem we have is with boring products in name of greater sales. These boring mundane products might give BMW a slight boost in sale for now in hopes of pleasing different markets but in long term it will tarnish the brand name, as people will start to associate the brand with mediocrity.

Please do not introduce half baked products that are rushed in a copy cat way to meet industry trends....point in case the half baked EPS steering setups just to follow the trend. Make the product worthy of being in a BMW then introduce it. Do not give us a car that lacks excitement, fun to drive factor, robbed of grin induction that used to come standard with most all BMW's of past.....all just to follow a fad or industry trend in name of temporary greater sales under the false pretense of innovation that take away excitement.


If BMW wants long term success then it needs to keep the core beliefs of brand intact. Which start by making the first priority to build excitement, great driving dynamics, high grin inducing factors, into all cars while using latest and greatest invocations just like in the past. Then next most important step is to improve reliability to the level and likes of Toyota's and Honda's, and last but not least undercut the competition slightly on prices while offering more (page out of Hyundai/Kia or yester year original Lexus brand)......the sales will follow the BMW brand for years to come in droves. This can be done without making boring and less exciting products with just so so driving dynamics.


As of right now BMW is making cars less exciting and more boring to drive, all in name of industry trend, by convincing themselves that this is what the BMW customer wants. No this is what a Toyota, Honda, Kia/Hyundai customer wants not BMW customer. Soon you might have Chinese drivers who never owned a BMW excited to own a BMW based on past glory. However, as BMW product becomes just another bland product, what is to say they will not move to some other brand, once they realize that the BMW product is no better then X or Y brand. Because BMW was following the same boring industry trend. Because it is not like you offer something so much different and unique anymore by catering to the same masses that desire more mundane product cause they know no better.

BMW lets make truly exciting products and you will sell a lot and people will crave your product like no other. Even today check out the desirability of a E36 M3, E46 M3, E39 M5, E60 M5, 1M and E9x M3 they are considered the pinnacle of BMW M division. I am not so sure one can say the same about current M5 or M6. Lets bring back the all new glory days with cars that make the competitors look like just a boring appliance.





Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
NO M SUV.

There is customers waiting for a vehicle like the Active Tourer and there will be customers that want the Active Tourer.

PROGRESS
I have previously mentioned all this before but people still refuse to accept that it is not the company that defines these choices but the customer. BMW is a progressive brand because they accept responsibility and they set out to find solutions for the issues that matter and are urgent.
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Last edited by Kayani_1; 01-03-2014 at 07:01 AM.
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      01-03-2014, 08:44 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayani_1
OK, Scott26 fair enough I understand what you are saying about BMW's new direction. But lets set few things straight.

When you claim that BMW adapts to customer needs and it will not exist without meeting their demands, I am with you 100%.

Now lets get few things straight. There will be no BMW today if there were no loyal customers who bought BMW cars year after year all based on BMW core beliefs of making exciting and fun cars with great driving dynamics.

If BMW even exists today it is because people desired the BMW vehicles with a DNA that carried the core ideas. To abandon these customers in hope of new ones is a bad business. A good business model will never lose its core customers. Instead it will build upon them. You know BMW in past was really good at that, as sales each year climbed higher and higher. The BMW name immediately was recognized as a performance luxury power house by all in automotive industry, the accolades and awards came so easy because you bucked the trend in a good way.

Sure BMW sales were no where near that of Toyota, nor BMW reliability, nor fuel economy, and nor price. But people who wanted BMW knew they had a choice of Toyota all day every day and passed up on it to deal with a car that was more finicky with reliability, expensive to maintain, and cost far more. In other words these BMW buyers used to pass up on a car that is 6/10th to 7/10th all around for practicality & daily use and instead paid more to jump into a BMW that was 5/10th in most categories except for 9/10th to 10/10th in performance, excitement, fun do to drive ratio, and grin inducting factors.

No one says you should not improve on 5/10th areas to bring more customers via innovations. However, do not sacrifice the 9/10th to 10/10th in performance, excitement, fun to drive ratio, and grin inducting factors in the name of attracting masses to buy a new BMW. Since BMW is independent company it should stick to core beliefs and then make sure all innovations, updates and improvements improve the breed in more evolutionary fashion. No need to reinvent the wheel in terms of making mundane and boring appliances.

For some reason you do not realize that most older customers have no problems with innovation. The problem we have is with boring products in name of greater sales. These boring mundane products might give BMW a slight boost in sale for now in hopes of pleasing different markets but in long term it will tarnish the brand name, as people will start to associate the brand with mediocrity.

Please do not introduce half baked products that are rushed in a copy cat way to meet industry trends....point in case the half baked EPS steering setups just to follow the trend. Make the product worthy of being in a BMW then introduce it. Do not give us a car that lacks excitement, fun to drive factor, robbed of grin induction that used to come standard with most all BMW's of past.....all just to follow a fad or industry trend in name of temporary greater sales under the false pretense of innovation that take away excitement.


If BMW wants long term success then it needs to keep the core beliefs of brand intact. Which start by making the first priority to build excitement, great driving dynamics, high grin inducing factors, into all cars while using latest and greatest invocations just like in the past. Then next most important step is to improve reliability to the level and likes of Toyota's and Honda's, and last but not least undercut the competition slightly on prices while offering more (page out of Hyundai/Kia or yester year original Lexus brand)......the sales will follow the BMW brand for years to come in droves. This can be done without making boring and less exciting products with just so so driving dynamics.


As of right now BMW is making cars less exciting and more boring to drive, all in name of industry trend, by convincing themselves that this is what the BMW customer wants. No this is what a Toyota, Honda, Kia/Hyundai customer wants not BMW customer. Soon you might have Chinese drivers who never owned a BMW excited to own a BMW based on past glory. However, as BMW product becomes just another bland product, what is to say they will not move to some other brand, once they realize that the BMW product is no better then X or Y brand. Because BMW was following the same boring industry trend. Because it is not like you offer something so much different and unique anymore by catering to the same masses that desire more mundane product cause they know no better.

BMW lets make truly exciting products and you will sell a lot and people will crave your product like no other. Even today check out the desirability of a E36 M3, E46 M3, E39 M5, E60 M5, 1M and E9x M3 they are considered the pinnacle of BMW M division. I am not so sure one can say the same about current M5 or M6. Lets bring back the all new glory days with cars that make the competitors look like just a boring appliance.





Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
NO M SUV.

There is customers waiting for a vehicle like the Active Tourer and there will be customers that want the Active Tourer.

PROGRESS
I have previously mentioned all this before but people still refuse to accept that it is not the company that defines these choices but the customer. BMW is a progressive brand because they accept responsibility and they set out to find solutions for the issues that matter and are urgent.
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      01-04-2014, 08:20 AM   #87
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BMW is in Germany what Toyota is in the US, "everybody" has one or at least can have one. Nothing special. There are even more Porsches than Toyotas.
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      01-04-2014, 09:05 AM   #88
maragulon
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Can You give a little EU specification?
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