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View Poll Results: Do you think BMW is losing its drive?
Yes, they are diluting the brand 49 63.64%
No, they are offering the people what they (the people want) 28 36.36%
Not really sure..but Merc has been doing this too now.. 0 0%
Voters: 77. You may not vote on this poll

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      10-15-2013, 09:38 AM   #1
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BMW - Dilution of the brand? POLL

Seems like every day, BMW gets closer to losing their "enthusiast spirit" they were known for.


Currently, BMW offers the following (excluding the i8 and 2 series)
Autoblog just announced a 4 series gran coupe too !!

To put things into perspective:
1 Series (F20) (2011–present) Hatchback
1 Series (E81) (2004–present) Coupe and convertible
3 Series (F30) (2012–present) Sedan, wagon
3 Series (E93) (2007–present) convertible
3 Series Gran Turismo (2013–present) Progressive Activity Sedan
4 Series (2014–present) Coupe
5 Series (F10) (2009–present) Sedan, wagon
5 Series Gran Turismo (2009–present) Progressive Activity Sedan
6 Series (F12) (2010–present) Coupe, convertible, Gran Coupe
7 Series (F01) (2008–present) Sedan
BMW i3 (To be launched 2014) Sedan
X1 (2009–present) Compact Crossover SUV/Sports Activity Vehicle (SAV)
X3 (F25) (2010–present) Compact Crossover SUV/Sports Activity Vehicle (SAV)
X5 (E70) (2006–present) Compact Crossover SUV/Sports Activity Vehicle (SAV)
X6 (E71) (2008–present) Sports Activity Coupe
Z4 (E89) (2009–present) Sports Roadster




Not too long ago, there was the 3/5/7 and X5 and Z4 models. Crazy to think this was just a few years ago.


Do you think that BMW has lost its drive?


Also, I just read about the "Active sound" feature that plays engine noises through the sound system
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      12-02-2013, 05:53 PM   #2
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update for the newly released pix of the 4 gc
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      12-02-2013, 06:18 PM   #3
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the 4 gran coupe kills me.

BMW goes so far as to name the two door version the '4' series, because it wants to differentiate it from the four door car, only to turn around and give it four doors....????

seriously, they're out of control.
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      12-02-2013, 07:09 PM   #4
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Bah.....when I started driving BMWs there were 2002s, and that's about it. You could get the 2800 Sedan, but they were rare.

Enthusiasts may not agree, but BMW is catering to what "most drivers/buyers" seem to want. I don't necessarily like some/most of their new product (the new 2 Series being an exception to that), but BMW sales global sales keep increasing. Enthusiasts will just have to pick and chose what to buy and what to ignore. Good ones to ignore include both the 5 Series GT, and the new 3 Series GT.
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      12-02-2013, 08:23 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuco44 View Post

Enthusiasts may not agree, but BMW is catering to what "most drivers/buyers" seem to want. I don't necessarily like some/most of their new product (the new 2 Series being an exception to that), but BMW sales global sales keep increasing. Enthusiasts will just have to pick and chose what to buy and what to ignore. Good ones to ignore include both the 5 Series GT, and the new 3 Series GT.
True, but I get what OP is saying.

I didn't start with BMW until around 1997. But I remember walking in to dealers and wanting one of everything. Now, I couldn't agree with you more; you have to choose what to like and what to ignore. BMW is over proliferating right now. They're becoming very benz-like in that regard. They're answering questions no one is asking.
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      12-02-2013, 10:00 PM   #6
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BMW doesn't cater to enthusiasts specifically(though I'm sure much of what we do plays a small role in their business), if they did, they'd never make it. They have no choice but to cater to what people desire most and that's a great auto at a reasonable price. It's been said before that BMW is no longer a brand that's "exclusive" to a certain class/group of consumer, frankly, I don't think it can afford to be. Not anymore, not in the times we live in. Besides, though the majority of us more than likely enjoy getting our mitts on the newest toys, I still don't mind the old ones. There's so many great older model Beemers out there, for me, I could really care less if BMW doesn't produce a rad model for a couple years.
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      12-03-2013, 12:00 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by tuco44 View Post
Bah.....when I started driving BMWs there were 2002s, and that's about it. You could get the 2800 Sedan, but they were rare.

Enthusiasts may not agree, but BMW is catering to what "most drivers/buyers" seem to want. I don't necessarily like some/most of their new product (the new 2 Series being an exception to that), but BMW sales global sales keep increasing. Enthusiasts will just have to pick and chose what to buy and what to ignore. Good ones to ignore include both the 5 Series GT, and the new 3 Series GT.
You like the 2-series?
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      12-03-2013, 01:29 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pj.rodriguez View Post
You like the 2-series?
Based on what I have seen so far, which is not much, yes, I think it's a positive step. I doubt I will trade my 135 for a 2, but I still think it may be a good overall sporting car.

Other than the rear end, what don't you like about it?
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      12-03-2013, 08:49 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuco44 View Post
Based on what I have seen so far, which is not much, yes, I think it's a positive step. I doubt I will trade my 135 for a 2, but I still think it may be a good overall sporting car.

Other than the rear end, what don't you like about it?
The front end. The rear end. The "M235i" (Dilution). And the fact they killed the 1series. Mass-market appeal. Not for the enthusiast.
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      12-03-2013, 08:58 AM   #10
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I voted that BMW is giving people what they want which I can't fault any company for doing. They still produce 'performance-oriented' vehicles across all product lines, so they are still committed to that. The US is their biggest market and for some reason, this country has a love for SUV and AWD vehicles and this is what has been popping up the most over the past decade. Don't know the exact numbers, but I would guess that SUV/AWD vehicles account for well more than 50% of sales and profits and the enthusiast market continues its decline.
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      12-03-2013, 11:30 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pj.rodriguez View Post
The front end. The rear end. The "M235i" (Dilution). And the fact they killed the 1series. Mass-market appeal. Not for the enthusiast.
OK, the 1 Series was never a big seller for BMW, even if we on here like it a lot. I think the chance of the 2 being a better seller is high - but that may be the very reason that enthusiasts won't like it. Who knows?

I would suggest waiting until the car actually comes out, and can be driven more than around the block before making a call on whether or not it will be an enthusiast car.

You are entitled to your opinions, as we all are. And styling is totally subjective - so let's wait and see.
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      12-03-2013, 04:44 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by tuco44 View Post
OK, the 1 Series was never a big seller for BMW, even if we on here like it a lot. I think the chance of the 2 being a better seller is high - but that may be the very reason that enthusiasts won't like it. Who knows?

I would suggest waiting until the car actually comes out, and can be driven more than around the block before making a call on whether or not it will be an enthusiast car.

You are entitled to your opinions, as we all are. And styling is totally subjective - so let's wait and see.
I 100% agree with you. Any opinion on a car is definitely subjective. It is definitely my opinion and I just don't fancy turbos. But then again, that's just me! Haha. I would definitely like to drive it one day just to see, but if it doesn't quickly appeal to me, then I'm just not interested. It's like buying a new shirt. If you don't love it, don't buy it.
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      12-03-2013, 07:50 PM   #13
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They go where the money is, businesses tend to do that. I don't see why it's a problem, their cars are still mostly great and having diversity in the range is better than small/bigger/biggest imo
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      12-05-2013, 02:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle B
the 4 gran coupe kills me.

BMW goes so far as to name the two door version the '4' series, because it wants to differentiate it from the four door car, only to turn around and give it four doors....????

seriously, they're out of control.
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      12-07-2013, 10:38 AM   #15
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It is not the number of different models offered per se that is the problem. It is the number of models that are no longer targeting the pure driving experience that BMW enthusiasts have long enjoyed. The "Ultimate Driving Machine" is becoming the "Ultimate Status Symbol" chock full of techno-nannies, luxo-features and turbos that often detract from the pure driving experience. They are obscenely expensive and, to add insult to injury, they break.
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      12-07-2013, 08:30 PM   #16
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BMW desire to serve the masses it slowly turning it into a luxury Toyota. The 5 series and 3 series are both a sorry excuse of mundane boring luxury cars, that once used to be legendary type of cars, that were cut above their rivals. The M6 is over weight bloated exercise of stupidity. The Z4 cars after the M versions departure have been a good looking also ran in sports roadster class even the Miata offers more pure driving experience then the Z4. The worst is that BMW runs a Z4 coupe in GT3 guise in racing series that has no production ties. On the other hand manufacturers like Porsche, Ferrari, Chevy, and Dodge run cars they actually make and sell to customers.

Now with the overly soft core, boring, burdened with life less EPS setups, German Toyota Camry like F30 3 series or Toyota Avalon like F10 5 series. The BMW brand is the biggest posure brand and this is coming from a die hard BMW fan for more then a decade. Last good thing created by BMW was the 1M , E9x M3, and E9x 335is. Every thing since is just a sorry excuse including the i8 specially when you compare it against the likes of what could have been a new rivalry with Porsche 918. If you were gonna try to make a watered down electric super car to make it affordable then least you could have done was to price it below $100K. At the price point of i8 there are a lot of nice exotic performance cars that make you think twice about buying a i8.

Bottom line is everything is half assed done by BMW as of lately. The 4 series concept was dulled down to make every effort to make it look boring in the production form and anything polarizing or edgy was taken out like the rear end, and unique front design of the LED lights. At a time when Audi S5, 2015 Mustang, and Corvette are becoming more stylish and edgy. This BMW trend of giving more mundane boring looks is alarming. At least the bangle ear gave cars that were not blah even though a bit controversial.

I still wonder to this day who approved of the half baked EPS setups. Some one should be fired at BMW to let that life less steering pass through to production cars in legendary BMW brand icons like 3 series, and 5 series. I mean anyone with half a brain knows its horrible in its current state. The funny thing is when BMW insider or engineers say the same. Yes, we agree that F30 steering has to be improved for duty in F32 or there is no way F30 steering will ok for F30 M3. Why?.......give people garbage.....why did you guys not do quality check control and disapprove the EPS until it as perfected to a point that it deserved to be in a legendary iconic car.

I am already contemplating a move to Chevy C7 for my next car unless BMW can wake up and do some damage control and fix these EPS issues and overly soft core boring mundane offerings and bring in M235i, M2, M3, and M4 that are closer to BMW's true heritage of making excellent sport luxury cars with more emphasis on sports as it used to be vs the luxury. Stop making cars for superficial elitist "oh my back hurts unless I ride in a water bed like car" or "oh I want a car in which I can turn the car with just one finger" or "oh I want a car so quiet that it is like a library I don't like the engine noise gosh who wants to hear it".

As for those that say you can fault BMW for chasing more customers my reply to that is you can still chase more customers but you do not have to compromise your core values for it. There are plenty of customers who want an honest to good sports luxury car or just out right great performance cars. The desire factor for a BMW 3 series is way higher then a Toyota Camry. Despite the fact that Toyota Camry has higher sales then BMW 3 series. No one wakes up in morning dreaming to drive a Toyota Camry. However, the two factors that cause people to buy Toyota Camry over BMW 3 series is #1. Cost, #2 Reliability. If BMW could control those two aspects you could already have masses lined up to buy your cars.

Thus, you do not have to start making boring cars to bring in masses. Instead offer your core values closer to your heritage and improve the reliability to the level of Toyota and bring the price point a bit lower and you will have your goal accomplished.
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