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      10-09-2013, 04:56 PM   #1
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Spring Mountain (3.4 mile course) 10.05.2013 first time

Amazing course


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      10-09-2013, 06:49 PM   #2
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Where is Spring Mountain? Is that a new track?
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      10-09-2013, 06:53 PM   #3
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Where is Spring Mountain? Is that a new track?
It's in Pahrump, Nevada (about 60 miles west of Las Vegas). I think it's been around - 7 years? Possibly longer.

A membership-only private track for the most part, with occasional track rental (to PCA, BMW CCA, Speed Ventures, etc). Saw the largest # of Corvettes assembled in one place while I was there (their racing school runs 'vettes).
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      10-09-2013, 07:07 PM   #4
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http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=898715

Good opportunity here.

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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      10-09-2013, 07:35 PM   #5
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Looks awesome! How far is that from Chicago
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      10-09-2013, 07:43 PM   #6
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Yep, saw that. Barring any unforeseen issue, will be attending.


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Originally Posted by klammer View Post
Looks awesome! How far is that from Chicago
Only 1,800 miles, lol.

If you ever do a west coast track outing, you must include this venue. But, not during the hot months (Pahrump is only 30 to 40 miles from Death Valley National Park).
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      10-10-2013, 12:35 AM   #7
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Sweet vid. Love the commentary. I was on the bridge watching at the time when that CTSV dive bombed you in the corner. It was much more interesting than in your vid. The CTSV actually locked up the brakes going into the corner and it looked like he was going to totally miss the corner and run into you. Luckly he regained control.
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      10-10-2013, 01:03 AM   #8
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Sweet vid. Love the commentary. I was on the bridge watching at the time when that CTSV dive bombed you in the corner. It was much more interesting than in your vid. The CTSV actually locked up the brakes going into the corner and it looked like he was going to totally miss the corner and run into you. Luckly he regained control.
roycemek! Where you been? Haven't seen you since Big Willow in October last year. Man, didn't know you was there at SMMR.

Anyhow, yeah, the video doesn't convey anything near what I felt when I saw the CTS-V out the passenger side opened window of my car. As you can hear in the video, when you're behind that car, the sound is loud as fawk; but, when it's behind or side of you, not so much. I was focused on that Miata and forgot to check the rear view mirror as I approached that corner, and when I glanced over just in time to see the front windshield of that CTS-V pop into the view thru my opened passenger side window, holy sh*t. Darted out to the left and turned wide and prayed that the fawker wouldn't ram my car.

Anyhow, I have video of one of the two CTS-V twins going off into the gravel at that same corner the very next lap. Was contemplating whether to include that footage in my video, but didn't want to be petty. After all, I dive-bombed a spec Boxter last week at Chuckwalla at T10 with similar near-miss. x)
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      10-10-2013, 01:34 AM   #9
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I'm hoping you're running in the open pass group at both events?

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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      10-10-2013, 01:54 AM   #10
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I'm hoping you're running in the open pass group at both events?

.
Yeah, red group ("open passing anywhere, race-like conditions").
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      10-10-2013, 02:56 AM   #11
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Where is Spring Mountain? Is that a new track?
I think the track opened either in the late 90s or early 2000s. There wasn't much there when I was tracking there in 2005-2007 other than the track, main building, and a canopy. I think they built the condos, restaurant, bar, etc in the past 2-4 years.
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      10-10-2013, 07:51 AM   #12
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I like how you were making the car 'work' at 1:40, 2:30, 4:20. But at 4:20 you were sawing at the wheel a lot. That's fine for learning/feeling the limit out but you want to work up to having constant tire noise and smoother hands rather than the intermittent tire noise dictated by the multiple 'flicks' of the steering wheel.

Keep up the good work! Is that the stock DCT software?
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      10-10-2013, 02:37 PM   #13
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I like how you were making the car 'work' at 1:40, 2:30, 4:20. But at 4:20 you were sawing at the wheel a lot. That's fine for learning/feeling the limit out but you want to work up to having constant tire noise and smoother hands rather than the intermittent tire noise dictated by the multiple 'flicks' of the steering wheel.

Keep up the good work! Is that the stock DCT software?
Yeah, that's something I've been doing for a while now and, although I've improved at reducing that, I still do it out of habit (I used to rest my left elbow sticking out on the door on tight right handers, but I've now succeeded in completely stopping from doing that, lol). While riding shotgun in an experienced track buddy's car last year, I watched him saw his way out of a fast but difficult transitional corner and, thereafter, started trying it. I'm not sure if it's been helping me in general, but I go thru the last left hander before the long front straightaway at ACS much much faster than before by sawing (but, watching that segment's video footage, me wiggling the steering wheel looks unsettling even to me, although when I'm driving thru it, it feels fairly stable and fast...).

Anyhow, (just wondering out loud) while I've heard from a lot of people that smooth steering input is faster, I've also seen lots of F1 and other european racing footages wherein the drivers seem to be constantly wiggling the steering wheels as they go thru corners and you can even see the front tires moving left right, left right, as they go thru corners. So, if being smoother is faster, I wonder why the European race drivers aren't being smooth with steering wheel...

Yes on 'stock DCT software.' Only things non-stock on the 2 M3's I've been tracking are suspension & bbk. And, tires, of course.

And, thanks for the encouragement.
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      10-10-2013, 02:54 PM   #14
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I kno what you mean about seeing the pro racers sawing back and forth, and then your in car instructor is telling you to be smooth, and you'll be faster.
I just take it to mean, you have to learn the proper way before you can do the sawing motion effectively.

I've also noticed, the guys who race, don't really comment on the sawing too much, but the while the instructors who don't race REALLY get on you for doing it.

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Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by some of the top engineers in the world because some guys sponsored by a company told you it's "better??" But when you ask the same guy about tracking, "oh no, I have a kid now" or "I just detailed my car." or "i just got new tires."
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      10-10-2013, 03:12 PM   #15
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I kno what you mean about seeing the pro racers sawing back and forth, and then your in car instructor is telling you to be smooth, and you'll be faster.
I just take it to mean, you have to learn the proper way before you can do the sawing motion effectively.

I've also noticed, the guys who race, don't really comment on the sawing too much, but the while the instructors who don't race REALLY get on you for doing it.

.
Excellent observation (although BillyJ is certainly a pro driver and not a mere HPDE instructor).

But, in the way I drive so far (obviously a weekend hobbyist), when I review my track videos and, not only observe the sawing of steering wheel, but also the resulting darting of the car (sometimes fairly dramatic), I have to conclude that those minute & substantial lateral movements of the car collectively over each laps are taking away from forward motion and, thereby, costing me half a second per lap, more or less...

I think me sawing perhaps has more to do with, so far, not being able to consistently pin-point the optimal turn-in point at corners, so I'm adjusting the steering input. As things get faster and faster, the window of opportunity to turn in just at the right moment gets smaller and smaller.
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      10-10-2013, 04:01 PM   #16
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Nice video.

I heard that there was an on track collision that weekend. Anyone have video of that??
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      10-10-2013, 04:17 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aus View Post
I kno what you mean about seeing the pro racers sawing back and forth, and then your in car instructor is telling you to be smooth, and you'll be faster.
I just take it to mean, you have to learn the proper way before you can do the sawing motion effectively.

I've also noticed, the guys who race, don't really comment on the sawing too much, but the while the instructors who don't race REALLY get on you for doing it.

.
I totally agree with you but there's a difference between steering movements 'balancing' a car at its limits and unnecessary sawing at the wheel when driving under the limits.

OC3 - Sawing at the wheel like that isn't the end of the world, but rather a step. You need to work on your feeling of the limit (which for most street/R-comp tires is correlated with varying degrees of tire noise). You want to have constant noise through the entire corner. From the view of the car and your inputs, you're below the limits and yank the wheel and you get tire noise. The next step is to be a little smoother, carry more speed, and have constant tire noise from turn-in to track-out.

You want to be smooth with your inputs but quick with your correction (in case of a slide - which you did). So it looks like you have pretty decent car control. I'd recommend in the lowspeed corners with no walls around, work in being more aggressive to feel the car at its limit. Its okay to spin (even though some instructors/track events crucify people for spinning -which I don't agree with) but choose a low speed corner to work on your car control and then work your way into faster corners. This dosn't mean just blindly flick the wheel, but rather learn how the car handles beyond its limits to the point of being comfortable passing the limits -which you can't do without seat time from doing it (this is the next step).

The 'step' after that would be once youre more comfortable with feeling the car pass its limits, you'll have the confidence and comfort to more effectively balance the car at the limit and your corrections will be smaller and quicker (maybe looking like sawing) but with less steering movements than what you see in your video.



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      10-10-2013, 05:37 PM   #18
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OC3 - Sawing at the wheel like that isn't the end of the world, but rather a step. You need to work on your feeling of the limit (which for most street/R-comp tires is correlated with varying degrees of tire noise). You want to have constant noise through the entire corner. From the view of the car and your inputs, you're below the limits and yank the wheel and you get tire noise. The next step is to be a little smoother, carry more speed, and have constant tire noise from turn-in to track-out.

You want to be smooth with your inputs but quick with your correction (in case of a slide - which you did). So it looks like you have pretty decent car control. I'd recommend in the lowspeed corners with no walls around, work in being more aggressive to feel the car at its limit. Its okay to spin (even though some instructors/track events crucify people for spinning -which I don't agree with) but choose a low speed corner to work on your car control and then work your way into faster corners. This dosn't mean just blindly flick the wheel, but rather learn how the car handles beyond its limits to the point of being comfortable passing the limits -which you can't do without seat time from doing it (this is the next step).

The 'step' after that would be once youre more comfortable with feeling the car pass its limits, you'll have the confidence and comfort to more effectively balance the car at the limit and your corrections will be smaller and quicker (maybe looking like sawing) but with less steering movements than what you see in your video.



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10-4 re: "You want to have constant noise through the entire corner."

Re: "From the view of the car and your inputs, you're below the limits," my pace at Spring Mountain was what I would call "leisurely." Didn't want to pick up the pace too much since I constantly wasn't sure whether the corner after the one I'm currently on would turn right or left. x)

However, in general, what you are recommending, I think, sort of coincides with what my current agenda is - that is to say, along the line of what I was saying recently about how my car felt compared to GT3 - aside the fact that GT3 is a better car, there still is a lot of room for me to be more aggressive at corners. The next frontier!
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      10-11-2013, 12:49 AM   #19
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I think its also style. When i ride in my cousins car its constant tire noise all the time and im amazed with the minimum amount of corrections he needs to make that the car is not spinning out. I told him damn theres tons more to go on decent tires before spinning out.

He responds yes, there is screeeech and then there is SCREEEEEEEEECH.
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      10-11-2013, 03:35 PM   #20
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Hey OC3,
Been super busy with work so haven't much play time. I did make it out to Spring Mountain but only ran the morning session on Sat. Too many cars. I was with some members so they let us run the new 2.1 track for the rest of the day. It was much nicer and only about 10 of us had the track for the whole day. Sorry I missed you. We'll have to meet up next time.
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      10-11-2013, 04:08 PM   #21
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Hey OC3,
Been super busy with work so haven't much play time. I did make it out to Spring Mountain but only ran the morning session on Sat. Too many cars. I was with some members so they let us run the new 2.1 track for the rest of the day. It was much nicer and only about 10 of us had the track for the whole day. Sorry I missed you. We'll have to meet up next time.
lol, yeah, I must've counted like a thousand cars in the pit area that day.

2.1? hmm, not sure which course that is/resembles..
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      10-11-2013, 08:41 PM   #22
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Its not on the website yet. It is 2.1 miles of new track they just recently added. Its setup to run as a completely standalone track with its own clubhouse, parking, etc. or they can add it as an extended layout to the 3.4 speedventures was running on Sat. and make for like 6 mile length lap. The new section also has some really cool elevation changes. Really fun. Here's a youtube vid. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEsHWiPQQjw
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