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      10-06-2013, 11:22 PM   #1
jimk
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BMW is now allowing any LL-01 oil for M engines

Newest oil supplier listing from BMW indicates that LL-01 approved oil are now suitable for our S65 and other M engines. I interpret this that you can now use your favorite 5W-30, 0W-40 or 0W30 LL-01 approved oil on your engine. My personal opinion is that lower viscosity oils should be used in colder climates or mild driving conditions while TWS should be used in hot climates or if you reach red line often. See attached pdf.
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      10-07-2013, 10:39 AM   #2
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      10-07-2013, 10:42 AM   #3
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they allow me to use whatever i want.
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      10-08-2013, 09:27 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimk View Post
My personal opinion is that lower viscosity oils should be used in colder climates or mild driving conditions while TWS should be used in hot climates or if you reach red line often.
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they allow me to use whatever i want.
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      10-08-2013, 02:11 PM   #5
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So.... I'm not sure if I'm looking at this correctly, but I can't seem to find which oils BMW considers "long-life rating LL-01 Synthic oils"?
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      10-08-2013, 03:19 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by JFlo View Post
So.... I'm not sure if I'm looking at this correctly, but I can't seem to find which oils BMW considers "long-life rating LL-01 Synthic oils"?
LL-01 is a certification that would apply to that brand/grade oil, this is usually listed on the back of the bottle.

BMW will tell you to just buy their oil which is LL-01.
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      10-08-2013, 03:52 PM   #7
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The way I read it is: only LL-01 Synthetic oils for M vehicles.

Of those LL-01 oils, only two are recommended: 10w60 or 5W30.

I'm pretty sure the 5W30 is only recommended for the M engines that use 5w30.

So really there is no change, they still say 10w60 is the oil to use.
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      10-09-2013, 06:58 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
The way I read it is: only LL-01 Synthetic oils for M vehicles.

Of those LL-01 oils, only two are recommended: 10w60 or 5W30.

I'm pretty sure the 5W30 is only recommended for the M engines that use 5w30.

So really there is no change, they still say 10w60 is the oil to use.
To make it more confusing, the 5w-30 part number that BMW listed for use in M engines is only LL-04 certified and not LL-01...very contradictory...
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      10-09-2013, 09:37 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
The way I read it is: only LL-01 Synthetic oils for M vehicles.

Of those LL-01 oils, only two are recommended: 10w60 or 5W30.

I'm pretty sure the 5W30 is only recommended for the M engines that use 5w30.

So really there is no change, they still say 10w60 is the oil to use.
No it says any LL01 is good to use in the s65 and s85, this means the 0-40 mobil, the 0-30 german castrol along with many others.
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Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
To make it more confusing, the 5w-30 part number that BMW listed for use in M engines is only LL-04 certified and not LL-01...very contradictory...
LL04 is backwards compatable with LL01.


BMW Longlife-04Special BMW approval for fully synthetic long-life oil. Viscosities are SAE 0W-30, 0W-40, 5W-30 and 5W-40. Usually required for BMWs equipped with a diesel particulate filter (DPF). Can also be used where a BMW Longlife-98 or BMW Longlife-01 oil is recommended.
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      10-09-2013, 06:52 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdott View Post
LL-01 is a certification that would apply to that brand/grade oil, this is usually listed on the back of the bottle.

BMW will tell you to just buy their oil which is LL-01.
Thanks for the clarification!, but I'm still slightly confused...

As far as I know there is only one 10w-60 out there, BMW's Catrol oil? Sooo... for the S65 engine, are there now more options than before or not really? At least if you're sticking with the recommended viscosity.
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      10-09-2013, 07:04 PM   #11
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I had yesterday a phone call with my BMW dealer and asked about the 5W30...( because i saw also another post of this oil)
The answer was ...yes on the new ///M turbo engines !
Than again me...and why not for the S-65 ?
This answer was,the ///M development laboratory knows best what oil to use for the S-65 engine,and also..whe (you) guess...but they know !
Conclusion....
So for me only the Castrol TWS 10W60 !
Amen.... +
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Last edited by ///M Power-Belgium; 10-09-2013 at 07:31 PM.
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      10-09-2013, 09:35 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
I had yesterday a phone call with my BMW dealer and asked about the 5W30...( because i saw also another post of this oil)
The answer was ...yes on the new ///M turbo engines !
Than again me...and why not for the S-65 ?
This answer was,the ///M development laboratory knows best what oil to use for the S-65 engine,and also..whe (you) guess...but they know !
Conclusion....
So for me only the Castrol TWS 10W60 !
Amen.... +
I agree here. The 10W60 is for the NA M engines while I am guessing the 5W30 is for the turbo newer F platform engines.
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      10-10-2013, 06:46 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
I had yesterday a phone call with my BMW dealer and asked about the 5W30...( because i saw also another post of this oil)
The answer was ...yes on the new ///M turbo engines !
Than again me...and why not for the S-65 ?
This answer was,the ///M development laboratory knows best what oil to use for the S-65 engine,and also..whe (you) guess...but they know !
Conclusion....
So for me only the Castrol TWS 10W60 !
Amen.... +
But in this case it is BMW itself that recommended LL-01 oils, not me or you or the dealer. If you give the link or pdf to that dealer, he'd side with BMW and most certainly he will be changing his tune. They side with what BMW tells them. I'm hoping that whomever put up the official BMW notice didn't wake up in the morning and said, hmmm, let's change the oil type for ///Ms to LL-01 today. I'm sure ///M engineers gave that the green light first.
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      10-11-2013, 06:08 AM   #14
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I have changed to M1 0w40 however this new oil update says US markets. That doesn't include Belgium.
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      10-11-2013, 07:09 PM   #15
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Had a couple of PM's with a member of this forum (aussiem3)
He had contact with BMW Australia,the answer that he had there in Australia is the same as i had here in Belgium.... keep using Castrol TWS 10W60 !
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      10-12-2013, 06:37 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Had a couple of PM's with a member of this forum (aussiem3)
He had contact with BMW Australia,the answer that he had there in Australia is the same as i had here in Belgium.... keep using Castrol TWS 10W60 !
I can confirm this. BMW Australia has not changed the oil and if any owner changes, then it's at his or her own risk.

I can't public comment on what they said about the bearing issue, and let me say this, changing the oil is not a solution. With all bearing failures, BMW AG have dug deep through ECU downloads, and there had been other factors that have contributed to it. Let me say that. I have spoken with the very top in the BMW Australia technical department, and I have to say, that I believe him.

He said keep changing the oil regularly, may be 6k km, and the engine will serve you well. "But please follow the prescribed warm up process."

Just because BMW NA has issued a communique doesn't mean the rest of the world have to follow it. We need to take advice from our regional technical areas to confirm to BMW warranty issues.

No flames please. Just FYI only.
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      10-12-2013, 08:36 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiem3 View Post
I can confirm this. BMW Australia has not changed the oil and if any owner changes, then it's at his or her own risk.

I can't public comment on what they said about the bearing issue, and let me say this, changing the oil is not a solution. With all bearing failures, BMW AG have dug deep through ECU downloads, and there had been other factors that have contributed to it. Let me say that. I have spoken with the very top in the BMW Australia technical department, and I have to say, that I believe him.

He said keep changing the oil regularly, may be 6k km, and the engine will serve you well. "But please follow the prescribed warm up process."

Just because BMW NA has issued a communique doesn't mean the rest of the world have to follow it. We need to take advice from our regional technical areas to confirm to BMW warranty issues.

No flames please. Just FYI only.
Same in the UK.
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      10-12-2013, 09:34 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aussiem3 View Post
I can confirm this. BMW Australia has not changed the oil and if any owner changes, then it's at his or her own risk.

I can't public comment on what they said about the bearing issue, and let me say this, changing the oil is not a solution. With all bearing failures, BMW AG have dug deep through ECU downloads, and there had been other factors that have contributed to it. Let me say that. I have spoken with the very top in the BMW Australia technical department, and I have to say, that I believe him.

He said keep changing the oil regularly, may be 6k km, and the engine will serve you well. "But please follow the prescribed warm up process."

Just because BMW NA has issued a communique doesn't mean the rest of the world have to follow it. We need to take advice from our regional technical areas to confirm to BMW warranty issues.

No flames please. Just FYI only.
what other factors? were the cars abused? the fact remains however that there are dozens of teardowns of S65 and S85 engines both on this and the M5 forums, and they all without a single exception show the bearings in terrible shape and with excessive wear. Are we to believe that each and every single one of those cars were abused?
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      10-12-2013, 12:24 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
I had yesterday a phone call with my BMW dealer and asked about the 5W30...( because i saw also another post of this oil)
The answer was ...yes on the new ///M turbo engines !
Than again me...and why not for the S-65 ?
This answer was,the ///M development laboratory knows best what oil to use for the S-65 engine,and also..whe (you) guess...but they know !
Conclusion....
So for me only the Castrol TWS 10W60 !
Amen.... +
The BMW announcement leaves no room for the interpretation given by your local dealer. The BMW annoucement says:
BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils for BMW M vehicles equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines
This DOES include the S65 (NA engine), and does NOT include the S63 or S55 engines (FI ///M engines used in turbo M5/M6 and upcoming M3/M4). Furthermore, the BMW announcement clearly says for cars in production at the present time (August 2013). That latter clause would exclude the turbo S55 engine in the upcoming M3/M4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless619 View Post
I agree here. The 10W60 is for the NA M engines while I am guessing the 5W30 is for the turbo newer F platform engines.
See above. LL01 specifically allowed for S65/S85 engine. S63 and S55 engines (new FI turbo ///M engines) are not mentioned at all, where other specific engines (S65, S85) are directly mentioned. Very clear to me this announcement does not intend to target S63/S55 because those engines are never mentioned; but does intend to target S65/S85 as those engines are specifically mentioned for LL01.

Quote:
Originally Posted by speedaddictM3 View Post
what other factors? were the cars abused? the fact remains however that there are dozens of teardowns of S65 and S85 engines both on this and the M5 forums, and they all without a single exception show the bearings in terrible shape and with excessive wear. Are we to believe that each and every single one of those cars were abused?
I track bearing wear causes and photos in this thread.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=892838

I include all engines whether modified or not. But the article which discusses cause and effect concentrates on stock (unmodified) engines, and unmodified cars.
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      10-12-2013, 12:52 PM   #20
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Quote:
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The BMW announcement leaves no room for the interpretation given by your local dealer. The BMW annoucement says:
BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils for BMW M vehicles equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines
This DOES include the S65 (NA engine), and does NOT include the S63 or S55 engines (FI ///M engines used in turbo M5/M6 and upcoming M3/M4). Furthermore, the BMW announcement clearly says for cars in production at the present time (August 2013). That latter clause would exclude the turbo S55 engine in the upcoming M3/M4.



See above. LL01 specifically allowed for S65/S85 engine. S63 and S55 engines (new FI turbo ///M engines) are not mentioned at all, where other specific engines (S65, S85) are directly mentioned. Very clear to me this announcement does not intend to target S63/S55 because those engines are never mentioned; but does intend to target S65/S85 as those engines are specifically mentioned for LL01.



I track bearing wear causes and photos in this thread.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=892838

I include all engines whether modified or not. But the article which discusses cause and effect concentrates on stock (unmodified) engines, and unmodified cars.
What can i say more ?
Look what they say in Australia (aussiem3 see above) and in the UK,and here in Belgium.......?!?!
And what i personal think about the bearing problems is that we need to follow strictly the warm up procedure with our S65 engine and that with any kind of oil !
I have seen people on this forum with 120,000 miles on it and more and that with the Castrol TWS 10W60 !
We are talking a lot about this problem and guess ,but the real solution....is there one ?
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      10-12-2013, 02:05 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
What can i say more ?
Look what they say in Australia (aussiem3 see above) and in the UK,and here in Belgium.......?!?!
And what i personal think about the bearing problems is that we need to follow strictly the warm up procedure with our S65 engine and that with any kind of oil !
I have seen people on this forum with 120,000 miles on it and more and that with the Castrol TWS 10W60 !
We are talking a lot about this problem and guess ,but the real solution....is there one ?
I think there are more M3s in North America than anywhere else in the world.


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      10-12-2013, 02:34 PM   #22
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I think there are more M3s in North America than anywhere else in the world.


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Agreed...North America or not..more or less.... we all have still the same problem ?
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