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      10-08-2013, 01:46 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by BMRLVR
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Originally Posted by Yellow Snow View Post
Seems strange when back in the days when S54s running 5w30 were spitting rod bearings out, BMW almost cured the problem with new shells and the freshly developed 10w60tws.

Surely going back to 5w30 is a retrograde step.

We have no such 5w30 recommendation in Europe except for using it to top up with in emergency.
They solved the problem with additional clearance, not the 10W60. The TWS has been around for years albeit under different names. I have spoken to Doug Hillary, one of the original engineers/tribiologists who worked on the development of TWS, you can find him on www.bobistheoilguy.com if you are interested.
But is there any cast iron 100% proof that the replacement s54 bearings run more clearance than the originals? Or is it an urban myth?

The Z3M S54 didn't have the bearing recall, it just changed from 5w30 to 10w60tws with much success.
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      10-08-2013, 04:36 PM   #90
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Good to see you on this board!!
I'm really surprised it's thick enough you lost power with it.

I thought the standard 5W30 was already a pretty thick oil for it's rating.
Looks like the diesel oil is eve thicker.

.
There's horse power in oil. We're not talking crazy amounts, but enough to win a race or not.
My 60-130s were slower with the 5w40 given close to the same temp, humidity, etc.
I also noticed higher oil temps (+10 degrees) when compared to the 5w30.
I'm assuming that the thicker oil was slowing down flow going through the cooler. Just an assumption.

I'm no oil expert, but as far as the high antiwear properties, I believe that the Mobil1 TD 5w40 would be a contender in oil substitutions for the S65.
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      10-08-2013, 04:43 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
There's horse power in oil. We're not talking crazy amounts, but enough to win a race or not.
My 60-130s were slower with the 5w40 given close to the same temp, humidity, etc.
I also noticed higher oil temps (+10 degrees) when compared to the 5w30.
I'm assuming that the thicker oil was slowing down flow going through the cooler. Just an assumption.

I'm no oil expert, but as far as the high antiwear properties, I believe that the Mobil1 TD 5w40 would be a contender in oil substitutions for the S65.
Thinner oil releases heat easier than a thicker oil.
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      10-08-2013, 06:41 PM   #92
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True, some testing was done (on different engines obviously) on Bob is the Oil Guy and 2% hp difference given the kind of 2 level changes in viscosity we're talking about (10w-60 to 0w-40). Wouldn't be surprised if worth 5-8 bhp on our cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. 5 View Post
There's horse power in oil. We're not talking crazy amounts, but enough to win a race or not.
My 60-130s were slower with the 5w40 given close to the same temp, humidity, etc.
I also noticed higher oil temps (+10 degrees) when compared to the 5w30.
I'm assuming that the thicker oil was slowing down flow going through the cooler. Just an assumption.

I'm no oil expert, but as far as the high antiwear properties, I believe that the Mobil1 TD 5w40 would be a contender in oil substitutions for the S65.
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      10-09-2013, 11:30 AM   #93
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Great news financially with the 5w-30 for interim oil changes. I just called my local BMW dealer, shot them the link (http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...ngineOils.aspx), and they said they could do it for $97.50. Heck yeah!
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      10-09-2013, 01:49 PM   #94
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Just called Motul... after they spoke with HQ in France... they recommended 300V 10w40 or 5w40

They said technically the 8100 5w40 is BMW LL01 approved and therefore won't void warranty however the 300V will offer improved protection especially around the rod bearings

Between the 300V 10w40 and 5w40 they recommended 10w40 since it will stand up to longer oil change intervals however 5w40 will have better flow at start up
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      10-09-2013, 03:57 PM   #95
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Great news financially with the 5w-30 for interim oil changes. I just called my local BMW dealer, shot them the link (http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...ngineOils.aspx), and they said they could do it for $97.50. Heck yeah!
That's pretty good. Depending on the price of the oil, that's only about $30 labor
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      10-09-2013, 04:33 PM   #96
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Great news financially with the 5w-30 for interim oil changes. I just called my local BMW dealer, shot them the link (http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...ngineOils.aspx), and they said they could do it for $97.50. Heck yeah!
That's pretty good. Depending on the price of the oil, that's only about $30 labor
$30 for them to do it, I sit there watch TV, and drink as many K-cups as I want. Count me in
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      10-09-2013, 04:33 PM   #97
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Impregnating parts with an ester film is a myth! As for the 300V, there is no doubt that it is a good oil but is is not as much better than the Mobil 1 0W40 than the price suggests. Take a look at the oem's that spec the 0W40 for use in their engines, it is a pretty impressive list....... Porsche (all models including the GT3/GT3RS), MB (all AMG cars), Nissan (GTR), VW/Audi (Numerous models including the R8 V10), Chrysler (all the SRT models........ And there are still more!

Don't worry the S65 is not an engine that puts super high demands on engine oil as we have seen from UOA's. Use the 0W40 with confidence, it really is a great oil!
thanks for the response...i should have been a little more clear...i have no problems running the 0w40 - the weight doesn't even matter since im in socal and we don't get any snow. I was more asking about running a thinner oil under temps at the track...so basically hotter than your average conditions when driving. I've heard conflicting things such as "if you track your car often, stick with 60, if not 40 is good". that part has me confused....
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      10-09-2013, 10:54 PM   #98
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Since everyone is throwing different oils into the thread, I'm wondering if anyone has considered the Mobil 1 5W-50 oil? The same oil they use in the Lexus LFA. One of the engine builders mentioned it over at M5Board. It isn't LL-01 approved though, but it is approved for BMW diesels? lol. I'm assuming without the particulate filter.

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...il1_5W-50.aspx
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      10-09-2013, 11:55 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
thanks for the response...i should have been a little more clear...i have no problems running the 0w40 - the weight doesn't even matter since im in socal and we don't get any snow. I was more asking about running a thinner oil under temps at the track...so basically hotter than your average conditions when driving. I've heard conflicting things such as "if you track your car often, stick with 60, if not 40 is good". that part has me confused....
i'd use the 0W40 on the track without issue. If your car is a purpose built track car then maybe a dedicated race oil is in order, however with a mix of street and regular track use the 0W40 will be just fine!!!
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      10-10-2013, 09:51 AM   #100
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by pkim1079 View Post
thanks for the response...i should have been a little more clear...i have no problems running the 0w40 - the weight doesn't even matter since im in socal and we don't get any snow. I was more asking about running a thinner oil under temps at the track...so basically hotter than your average conditions when driving. I've heard conflicting things such as "if you track your car often, stick with 60, if not 40 is good". that part has me confused....
i'd use the 0W40 on the track without issue. If your car is a purpose built track car then maybe a dedicated race oil is in order, however with a mix of street and regular track use the 0W40 will be just fine!!!
Ok thanks!

Why were some ppl saying that 0w40 wasnt as good on the track? Im assuming that ppl were thinking that it would be too thin for protection under hotter temps but my thinking is that this oil is a better protectant under harsher conditions. I will give it a go.
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      10-10-2013, 10:01 AM   #101
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Quote:
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Ok thanks!

Why were some ppl saying that 0w40 wasnt as good on the track? Im assuming that ppl were thinking that it would be too thin for protection under hotter temps but my thinking is that this oil is a better protectant under harsher conditions. I will give it a go.
I think the reasoning as the oil gets very hot, the oil pump might not be able to keep up (correct me if I'm wrong).

Kawasaki tested the oil up to 230 I think and said the pressure was fine at that point. You'd have to ask him.

Like I said, I've beaten mine pretty good and the 0W40 doesn't act any different than the 10W60 did IMO.
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      10-10-2013, 10:11 AM   #102
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Ok thanks!

Why were some ppl saying that 0w40 wasnt as good on the track? Im assuming that ppl were thinking that it would be too thin for protection under hotter temps but my thinking is that this oil is a better protectant under harsher conditions. I will give it a go.
I think the reasoning as the oil gets very hot, the fuel pump might not be able to keep up (correct me if I'm wrong).

Kawasaki tested the oil up to 230 I think and said the pressure was fine at that point. You'd have to ask him.

Like I said, I've beaten mine pretty good and the 0W40 doesn't act any different than the 10W60 did IMO.
Fuel pump or oil pressure?

Does oil temp not get hotter than 230F at the track? Granted the needle doesnt move much but is that even accurate?
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      10-10-2013, 10:16 AM   #103
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Fuel pump or oil pressure?

Does oil temp not get hotter than 230F at the track? Granted the needle doesnt move much but is that even accurate?
Sorry corrected. Oil pump.

You'd have to ask Kawasaki yourself. I don't think it'd be a problem. I know in my case, M1 is more than adequate for the temps I see.
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      10-10-2013, 11:46 AM   #104
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I think the reasoning as the oil gets very hot, the oil pump might not be able to keep up (correct me if I'm wrong).

Kawasaki tested the oil up to 230 I think and said the pressure was fine at that point. You'd have to ask him.

Like I said, I've beaten mine pretty good and the 0W40 doesn't act any different than the 10W60 did IMO.
Considering the turbo BMWs run oil at "normal": 240F, with 5w-30, 0-40 Mobil 1 should be a non-issue, even if they don't hit 8k+ rpm.
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      10-10-2013, 11:49 AM   #105
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Originally Posted by thekurgan View Post
Considering the turbo BMWs run oil at "normal": 240F, with 5w-30, 0-40 Mobil 1 should be a non-issue, even if they don't hit 8k+ rpm.
And the turbos are cooled by the oil which nukes them to well over 1,000*F briefly. Turbos are very hard on oil.
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      10-10-2013, 12:28 PM   #106
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Ok thanks!

Why were some ppl saying that 0w40 wasnt as good on the track? Im assuming that ppl were thinking that it would be too thin for protection under hotter temps but my thinking is that this oil is a better protectant under harsher conditions. I will give it a go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by W/// View Post
I think the reasoning as the oil gets very hot, the oil pump might not be able to keep up (correct me if I'm wrong).

Kawasaki tested the oil up to 230 I think and said the pressure was fine at that point. You'd have to ask him.

Like I said, I've beaten mine pretty good and the 0W40 doesn't act any different than the 10W60 did IMO.
The 0-40 can take the 275-280 temp but I was hesitant on the recommendation for it because I do not have pressure data at that temp. I have run it to 230 many times and it still has 35psi so I would guess probably 27-28 psi at 275, which is just fine.
Start getting down to 20psi and it starts getting skechy, the bulk of that type of damage comes from exiting the track and lugging the motor back to the pits.
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      10-10-2013, 01:09 PM   #107
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The 0-40 can take the 275-280 temp but I was hesitant on the recommendation for it because I do not have pressure data at that temp. I have run it to 230 many times and it still has 35psi so I would guess probably 27-28 psi at 275, which is just fine.
Start getting down to 20psi and it starts getting skechy, the bulk of that type of damage comes from exiting the track and lugging the motor back to the pits.

hmm, but now that BMW is coming out with the 5-30w oil recommendation, can we assume that running the M1 0-40w should no longer be a concern?

The other question that I have is for folks that already have a high copper/lead count from their oil analysis, would switching to the thinner oil at this point be potentially more harmful than good? I am thinking that since the bearing is already worn to the copper, this would indicate a bigger gap/clearance between the bearing and journal. Switching to a thinner oil at this point would have a higher likelihood of a sudden lost of oil pressure due to too much clearance? Can the expert chime in on this?
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      10-10-2013, 03:15 PM   #108
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Here is a list of other LL-01 rated oils that I could find (many are not in the US market)

Code:
Tradename-------------Viscosity----------Manufacturer/Supplier

ADDINOL Super power MV 0537 			SAE 5W-30 		Addinol Lube Oil GmbH
Agip Formula LL B 01 							SAE 0W-30 		ENI S.p.A.Refining and Marketing Division
Agip Sint 2000 Evolution 					SAE 5W-40 		ENI S.p.A.Refining and Marketing Division
Agip TECSINT SL SAE 							5W-40 ENI 		S.p.A.Refining and Marketing Division
Aral SuperTronic 									SAE 5W-30 		Aral
AXCL S-Class Motor Oil 						SAE 0W-30 		AXCL Gulf FZE
Visco 7000 												SAE 0W-40 		BP Oil International
BP Visco 7000 Special 						SAE 0W-30 		BP Oil International
BP Visco 7000 										SAE 0W-40 		BP Oil International
SBS 5.0 "Longlife-01" BMW AG - TIS 26.12.2004 21:36Formula SLX LL01 SAE 0W-30 Castrol Limited
Castrol Formula SLX Turbo Diesel 	SAE 0W-30 		Castrol Limited
Castrol Formula RS  							SAE 0W-40 		Castrol Limited Power and Protection
Castrol Syntec 										SAE 0W-30 		Castrol Limited
Castrol Super Racing 							0W-40 SAE 		Castrol Limited
Castrol TXT Softec LL01 					SAE 5W-30 		Castrol Limited
Cepsa Star Mega Synthetic 				SAE 0W-30 		Cepsa Lubricantes S.A.
Elf Excellium LDX 								SAE 0W-30 		Total
Formula Ultra AB 									SAE 5W-30 		Shell International Petroleum Company
Gulf Formula TLX 									SAE 0W-30 		Total
Havoline Synthetic BM 						SAE 0W-30 		Texaco
Igol Process Compact P 						SAE 5W-30 		Igol France S.A.
Jet Top Level 										SAE 0W-40 		ConocoPhillips GmbH
Labo RC 													SAE 0W-30 		Fuchs Labo S.A.
Liqui Moly Longlife High Tech 		SAE 5W-30 		Liqui Moly
megol Motorenöl New Generation 		SAE 5W-30 		Meguin GmbH
Mobil 1 													SAE 0W-40 		ExxonMobil
Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel							SAE 0W-40 		ExxonMobil
Motorex Profile B-XL 							SAE 0W-30 		Bucher AG
Motorex Select SP-X 							SAE 5W-30 		Bucher AG
Motul Specific LL-01 							SAE 5W-30 		Motul S.A:
OMV full syn plus 								SAE 5W-30 		MV AG
Pennzoil European Formula Ultra 	SAE 5W-30 		Pennzoil Quaker State
Pentospeed 0W-30 VS* 							SAE 0W-30 		Deutsche Pentosin-Werke
Petronas Syntium 3000 LL 					SAE 5W-30 		Petronas
Q8 Formula Special 								SAE 0W-30 		Kuwait Petroleum
Quaker State EU Formula Ultra 		SAE 5W-30 		Pennzoil Quaker State
Satoil LazerWay B 								SAE 5W-30 		Svenska Statoil AB
Shell Helix Ultra AB 							SAE 5W-30 		Shell International Petroleum Company
Titan Supersyn SL 								SAE 0W-30 		Fuchs Petrolub AG
Valvoline SynPower MXL 						SAE 0W-30 		Valvoline
Veedol Powertron LL01 						SAE 5W-30 		Veedol International
Veedol Syntron 										SAE 0W-30 		Veedol International
Wintershall VIVA 1 Longlife 			SAE 5W-30 		SRS Schmierstoff Vertrieb GmbH
Yacco VX 1600 										SAE 5W-30 		Yacco S.A.S.
someone correct me if wrong...
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      10-10-2013, 04:56 PM   #109
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Just bought 2 5-qt jugs of Mobil 1 0w-40 European Car Formula at Walmart for like $25 each. Now it's sitting next to the 9 qts of Castrol 5w-30 I originally bought until we can reach a consensus (thanks BMW) on which one goes in the M3 with 15000 miles on it.

The 0w-40 is LL-01 approved. The 5w-30 that BMW recommends is not. It's LL-04.
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      10-10-2013, 05:51 PM   #110
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Just bought 2 5-qt jugs of Mobil 1 0w-40 European Car Formula at Walmart for like $25 each. Now it's sitting next to the 9 qts of Castrol 5w-30 I originally bought until we can reach a consensus (thanks BMW) on which one goes in the M3 with 15000 miles on it.

The 0w-40 is LL-01 approved. The 5w-30 that BMW recommends is not. It's LL-04.
If you change at 7,500 intervals, you should be fine with the 5W30.

.
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