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      10-06-2013, 12:13 PM   #23
Endless619
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Originally Posted by gatorfast View Post
Compared to what? It's actually very expensive for oil.
Compared to one of my $5000 rifles or one of my $2500 Elcan Specter DR optics. So yes, very cheap.

i mean this in a fun way. Its under $30 bucks a pop, to some of us its not that much really.
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      10-06-2013, 12:14 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by aussiem3 View Post
It's blood expensive at $39/ltr in Australia. I am one of those lucky ones that gets them very cheap. BMW is ripping the customers big time in Australia. I don't know about North America.

So an oil change in Australia will cost you close to $600 depending where you go.
Costs $49 at a dealer here in the states. Not sure why you folks pay that much. Unacceptable.
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      10-06-2013, 12:29 PM   #25
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My service advisor just responded to me saying that the 5w30 is only for the newer models. Oh well.
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      10-06-2013, 01:35 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aftershock141
My service advisor just responded to me saying that the 5w30 is only for the newer models. Oh well.
Maybe your service advisor can't read. The document is quite clear, it states S54, S62, S65, S85. None of these are new engines.
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      10-06-2013, 01:59 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
Maybe your service advisor can't read. The document is quite clear, it states S54, S62, S65, S85. None of these are new engines.
I agree 100%.
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      10-06-2013, 02:01 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
Maybe your service advisor can't read. The document is quite clear, it states S54, S62, S65, S85. None of these are new engines.
Quote:
Originally Posted by B767capt View Post
I agree 100%.
That and it is actually on the main page of the bmw usa website also. It is not some tech bulletin that only the service advisors can see.
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      10-06-2013, 02:08 PM   #29
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Ok so... regarding the Castrol Edge Professional OE 5w-30 its designed for the particulate filter in diesels and low sulfur diesel fuel. It only satisfies the LL-04 requirement and not the LL-01 requirement. While it clearly states at the beginning of the PDF and BMW USA's site that the oil used in M engines must meet the LL-01 requirement. Well, wtf! lol. Why would they recommend this oil if it doesn't meet the LL-01 requirement? This is what confuses me.

Also a side note, why do some sites say that this Castrol Edge Professional OE 5w-30 oil (LL-04) must not be used in BMW spark ignition engines outside of the European Union? Emissions related I'm assuming?
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      10-06-2013, 02:09 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kawasaki00 View Post
That and it is actually on the main page of the bmw usa website also. It is not some tech bulletin that only the service advisors can see.
http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...ngineOils.aspx

So by this definition, Mobil 1 0W40 is allowed by BMW because it's specified as BMW LL-01:

http://www.mobil.com/USA-English/Lub...l_1_0W-40.aspx
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      10-06-2013, 02:13 PM   #31
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Ok, this is confusing......check out this pdf from Castrol's website regarding the 5W-30 oil listed on the Synthetic Engine Oil page from BMW:

http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/327FECC588E3ADE480257AD3003FBDCB/$File/PDS%20CCSA%20Castrol%20EDGE%20Professional%20OE%20 5W-30%20English.pdf

Look at the asterisk on page 2:

"BMW Longlife-04* - *Should not be used in BMW gasoline engines outside the European Union"

What the heck does that mean?????
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      10-06-2013, 04:07 PM   #32
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My e39 with the S62 reads 5w-30 on the engine bay. I use 10w-60, past owner did as well. There are countless debates and oil threads on the m5board and there are some explanations as to why the 5-30 was used and the switch to 10-60 as well as many people that believe one or the other is better and then the brands come into play. It's all very confusing really. From what I've read there really isn't that much of a noticeable difference though where you live and your oil temps do affect this.

This one is certainly interesting:
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/e39...bject-oil.html
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      10-06-2013, 04:27 PM   #33
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In the bulletin LL01 only refers to 10W/60 - They just don't list 5W30 as LL04 - with all the engineering that's supposed to go into these cars prior to production, you'd think they'd know the oil to use prior to the end of the end of production -

*The following is the only recommended and approved synthetic oil for BMW M (Motorsport)
vehicles in the US market with gasoline engines, at the present time.
BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils for BMW M vehicles
equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines
Castrol EDGE Professional TWS Motorsport SAE 10W-60 Synthetic Engine Oil,
BMW part number 07 51 0 009 420

or

Castrol Edge Professional OE 5W30 Synthetic Engine Oil
BMW part number 07 51 0 037 195
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      10-06-2013, 05:22 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless619 View Post
Costs $49 at a dealer here in the states. Not sure why you folks pay that much. Unacceptable.
Castrol Edge 10w-60 (not TWS) itself retails for $90 per 5 litre can. I am sure it's the same oil as TWS, and I think TWS has the so called "signature florescent colour and micro filtered", and labelled for BMW as recommended for BMW M.

It's absolutely mind blowing that they can demand a price like that, given that it's not available outside BMW dealerships.
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Last edited by aussiem3; 10-06-2013 at 05:31 PM.
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      10-06-2013, 05:40 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moxie View Post
In the bulletin LL01 only refers to 10W/60 - They just don't list 5W30 as LL04 - with all the engineering that's supposed to go into these cars prior to production, you'd think they'd know the oil to use prior to the end of the end of production -

*The following is the only recommended and approved synthetic oil for BMW M (Motorsport)
vehicles in the US market with gasoline engines, at the present time.
BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils for BMW M vehicles
equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines
Castrol EDGE Professional TWS Motorsport SAE 10W-60 Synthetic Engine Oil,
BMW part number 07 51 0 009 420

or

Castrol Edge Professional OE 5W30 Synthetic Engine Oil
BMW part number 07 51 0 037 195

I read this as:

Use TWS, if it's not available, you may use the 5W30. Pretty vague mention by BMW on this, btw.
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      10-06-2013, 05:46 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thekurgan View Post
I read this as:

Use TWS, if it's not available, you may use the 5W30. Pretty vague mention by BMW on this, btw.
This/ Hopefully the OEM 10w60 is fine as i dont know how to decide otherwise
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      10-06-2013, 06:28 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
Maybe your service advisor can't read. The document is quite clear, it states S54, S62, S65, S85. None of these are new engines.
Exactly!
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      10-06-2013, 06:45 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Endless619 View Post
Compared to one of my $5000 rifles or one of my $2500 Elcan Specter DR optics. So yes, very cheap.
Nice. I have two custom shotgun stocks that are each in that price range ($7500).

Sorry about being OT. So...

I don't think it's a coincidence that BMW announced a new light weight oil choice to the S65/S85 engines. BMW can never say they did this because of bearing clearance issues, nor can they introduce a bearing size change to fix it. Either of those moves by a big corporation would be cause for a class action lawsuit almost immediately. So the best you'll ever get from BMW without a recall is something like this announcement that thinner oil is now allowed. But make no mistake, the thinner oil announcement and bearing clearance issue are almost certainly related.
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      10-06-2013, 06:47 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thekurgan View Post
I read this as:

Use TWS, if it's not available, you may use the 5W30. Pretty vague mention by BMW on this, btw.
You might read it that way but that is not what is says. No engine in the world is built around a certain oil.
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      10-06-2013, 07:10 PM   #40
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I don't think this says anything about the bearing issues. Just a page on the BMW site to fall in line with the spec oil for the new M engines like the S63.
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      10-06-2013, 07:23 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sensi09
I don't think this says anything about the bearing issues. Just a page on the BMW site to fall in line with the spec oil for the new M engines like the S63.
The S63 is not even mentioned on that document :
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      10-06-2013, 07:55 PM   #42
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I think BMW meant that for those specific cars, s54,s62,s65,s85, use 10w60, for all other M cars use 5w30 i.e. f10 M5, x5m, M6, etc. which all rake 5w30.

The red or I think is the separation.

*The following is the only recommended and approved synthetic oil for BMW M (Motorsport) vehicles in the US market with gasoline engines, at the present time.

•BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils for BMW M vehicles equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines
•Castrol EDGE Professional TWS Motorsport SAE 10W-60 Synthetic Engine Oil
◦BMW part number 07 51 0 009 420

or

•Castrol EDGE Professional OE 5W30 Synthetic Engine Oil
◦BMW part number 07 51 0 037 195
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      10-06-2013, 08:12 PM   #43
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Absolutely, it's as much as an admission from BMW as you're going to get, short of a recall (unlikely unless someone gets hurt). Way too much evidence and timing of evidence and subsequent change of oil recommendations for this to be a coincidence. Think you and others as mentioned previously have done a fantastic job in bringing this to light to at least change oil immediately as a conservative step (regardless of correlation and causality questions).

Quote:
Originally Posted by regular guy View Post

I don't think it's a coincidence that BMW announced a new light weight oil choice to the S65/S85 engines. BMW can never say they did this because of bearing clearance issues, nor can they introduce a bearing size change to fix it. Either of those moves by a big corporation would be cause for a class action lawsuit almost immediately. So the best you'll ever get from BMW without a recall is something like this announcement that thinner oil is now allowed. But make no mistake, the thinner oil announcement and bearing clearance issue are almost certainly related.
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      10-06-2013, 09:10 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5soko View Post
I think BMW meant that for those specific cars, s54,s62,s65,s85, use 10w60, for all other M cars use 5w30 i.e. f10 M5, x5m, M6, etc. which all rake 5w30.

The red or I think is the separation.
The following is the only recommended and approved synthetic oil for BMW M (Motorsport) vehicles in the US market with gasoline engines, at the present time.

•BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Synthetic Oils for BMW M vehicles equipped with S54, S62, S65 or S85 engines
•Castrol EDGE Professional TWS Motorsport SAE 10W-60 Synthetic Engine Oil
BMW part number 07 51 0 009 420

or

•Castrol EDGE Professional OE 5W30 Synthetic Engine Oil
◦BMW part number 07 51 0 037 195
Here's how I read it. The only clause that mentions S65/S85 says to use LL-01 oil. What is LL-01 oil?

According to a slightly older BMW document, LL-01 is the following:
BMW Long-life rating LL-01 Approved Synthetic Oils for the US Market
  • Castrol Syntec European Formula SAE 0W-30
  • Mobil 1 SAE 0W-40
  • Pennzoil Platinum European Formula Ultra SAE 5W-30
  • Valvoline SynPower SAE 5W-30
The only other way I can think to interpret this is LL-01 is defined as follows:
  • Castrol EDGE Professional TWS Motorsport SAE 10W-60 Synthetic Engine Oil BMW part number 07 51 0 009 420
  • Castrol EDGE Professional OE 5W30 Synthetic Engine Oil BMW part number 07 51 0 037 195
Either way you interpret it, LL-01 includes the lighter 5W30 oil which applies to the S65 and S85.
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