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      10-11-2013, 01:57 PM   #1
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Stingray VS the world (Lime Rock M3 included)

Here is a test edmunds did comparing the C7 Vette vs Viper, Cayman S, Carerra S, GT500, and M3 Lime Rock Edition. What are your thoughts on the results?
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      10-11-2013, 02:50 PM   #2
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I do think that the Edmunds pieces are biased towards the Corvette, but it's clearly a very competent car. I think the GTR should have done better...they need to stop testing it on 91 octane. The only thing that surprised me was the M3 being so far back.
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      10-11-2013, 03:48 PM   #3
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Just saw the C7 at the dealership. WOW! It looked amazing. Aggressive, sporty, and well built. I might serious jump ship to the C7 if the next M4 isn't a big leap in performance from the current M3.
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      10-11-2013, 05:20 PM   #4
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I am surprised that the GT-R and M3 did so poorly.
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      10-11-2013, 05:41 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
I am surprised that the GT-R and M3 did so poorly.
That same GTR is making the rounds in the auto press and seems to he having trouble with the 91 octane in Cali. Sounds like it got some heat soak also, which you wouldnt think should be a problem with the track pack.
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      10-11-2013, 07:19 PM   #6
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Agreed C7 looks better in person.
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      10-11-2013, 09:54 PM   #7
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i was at willowsprings today and I can say from experience that the later in the day it is the worse your car performs. Which is common sense. But Its pretty dramatic. The heat gets you
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      10-11-2013, 10:50 PM   #8
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Not really surprised on the outcome actually, especially given the increasing heat, high elevation at Willow (2500+ feet) and rising temps as the day wore on and its still one of the heaviest cars there. Coupled with 91 octane, not the formula for peak M3 performance. Actually surprised the Shelby was as slow as it was given the power and respectable handling.

Don't undertand why so many people believe a heavier sedan-based coupe would really overcome the laws of physics and out-handle similar or lower weight/power ratio dedicated sports cars. Sorry to spoil the party, but the M3 is a sedan not a true sports car.
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      10-12-2013, 09:00 AM   #9
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Out of all the cars in that comparison, I'd take the Viper. Man that car is amazing.
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      10-12-2013, 09:27 AM   #10
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With its high performance paint I'm surprised the M3 did not do better.
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      10-12-2013, 10:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gblansten View Post
With its high performance paint I'm surprised the M3 did not do better.
Don't forget the Lime Rock sticker on the rear left window. I was told by BMW marketing execs that this alone adds 50 hp
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      10-12-2013, 11:20 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3PO View Post
I am surprised that the GT-R and M3 did so poorly.
The GTR was clearly suffering in the heat. The new GTRs fall into a hobble mode when they get too hot. Nissan wanted to appease all the guys that wanted fast launches so they tightened the optimal operating parameters.
I have had performance trouble with my '12 and '13 GTRs in the summer heat.
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      10-12-2013, 12:10 PM   #13
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For the M3 to STILL be in the conversation...win.
We're talking 2007...
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      10-12-2013, 12:33 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhillyNate View Post
For the M3 to STILL be in the conversation...win.
We're talking 2007...
I agree.
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      10-12-2013, 01:26 PM   #15
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Seriously, Streets of Willow I suck at driving and ran a 1:29 flat at the end of the day in 100 degree heat with MDM on! This guy is a lame driver
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      10-12-2013, 07:56 PM   #16
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Seriously, Streets of Willow I suck at driving and ran a 1:29 flat at the end of the day in 100 degree heat with MDM on! This guy is a lame driver
It isn't necessarily about the time he ran but the relative time of the cars. I think the GT-R ran slow and so did the M3. The results, on a relative basis, may still have been the same but the M3 would have been closer to the faster cars IMO. I still miss my E92
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      10-13-2013, 09:24 AM   #17
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I got a drive around Laguna Seca in the new Stingray and was very impressed. It's level of grip, turn it, balance, power, etc far exceeded the capabilities of the M3.

Streets of Willow is a short, tight momentum track. Not surprised the M3 did so poorly because the spings are very soft. You need a tightly sprung light car to do well there. Interesting that they picked it vs Big Willow for this test give the high HP cars in this group.

It would take around $10-15K in mods to get the M3 on an equivalent basis as the Stingray IMHO. It would need coils, alignment, tires, catless exhaust, tune, and and BBK. But it can be done.
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      10-13-2013, 10:16 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
I got a drive around Laguna Seca in the new Stingray and was very impressed. It's level of grip, turn it, balance, power, etc far exceeded the capabilities of the M3.

Streets of Willow is a short, tight momentum track. Not surprised the M3 did so poorly because the spings are very soft. You need a tightly sprung light car to do well there. Interesting that they picked it vs Big Willow for this test give the high HP cars in this group.

It would take around $10-15K in mods to get the M3 on an equivalent basis as the Stingray IMHO. It would need coils, alignment, tires, catless exhaust, tune, and and BBK. But it can be done.
The only issue with that (other than cost because now you have close to $100K in the M3 if you started with a loaded car) is that it changes the car for daily street duty as the car was not meant to be set up like that. Maybe more of a compromise than many would be willing to live with unless the car was a track car.

I'm still a believer that, although the M3 isn't at the same level of performance, it is more than enough and very capable for all but the most demanding owners. Here's to hoping the M4 makes the gap very small and also keeps the price affordable.
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      10-13-2013, 12:20 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gthal View Post
The only issue with that (other than cost because now you have close to $100K in the M3 if you started with a loaded car) is that it changes the car for daily street duty as the car was not meant to be set up like that. Maybe more of a compromise than many would be willing to live with unless the car was a track car.

I'm still a believer that, although the M3 isn't at the same level of performance, it is more than enough and very capable for all but the most demanding owners. Here's to hoping the M4 makes the gap very small and also keeps the price affordable.
Awesome that you have one on order. Best bang-for-your-buck performance car for sure.

I was only trying to compare the two since it was done in this article and this is of course an M3 forum. Maybe there are a few...but generally people wouldn't really cross shop these cars as the Stingray and M3 are completely different cars stock from the factory. The M3 has two or four doors and a back seat. It's springs are very soft and ride very comfortable.

But because this is an enthusiast forum, I do think there are some that may cross shop. So I did want to compare the two on the track. Of course the Stingray is much better prepared from the factory at the track, but is a much more uncomfortable, unpractical daily driver/street car.

I've been in an NA track set up M3 from MRF Engineering and it was more comfortable (even with coils - KW Clubsports) than the Stingray and was just as capable (with NT05's). That's the comparo I want to see.

Lastly, you can purchase a nice pre-owned M3 for $45K so adding $15K in mods is still much cheaper than purchasing a new Stingray. But then the Stingray has a warranty and the M3 won't.
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      10-13-2013, 07:13 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
I've been in an NA track set up M3 from MRF Engineering and it was more comfortable (even with coils - KW Clubsports) than the Stingray and was just as capable (with NT05's). That's the comparo I want to see.
I highly doubt it, the MSRC in the Stingray is capable of providing a far more compliant ride in its comfort mode than the m3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Longboarder View Post
Lastly, you can purchase a nice pre-owned M3 for $45K so adding $15K in mods is still much cheaper than purchasing a new Stingray. But then the Stingray has a warranty and the M3 won't.
The Stingray is 56k with all performance options. So you're comparing a modded 6 year old car to a new stock vehicle.

M3 is an awesome all around car and unbeatable for practicality, but nowhere near the same performance as a Stingray. The m3 also has the advantage of a DCT, whereas the Vette is a manual.
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      10-13-2013, 08:06 PM   #21
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First off anyone who has ever been to Willow knows that your times can be as much as 2-3 sec. off from morning to mid afternoon due to the heat there.

I think this test is BS.....heat affects everything.

I can guarantee you that if the M3 was tested in the morning it would have been at least 2 sec. faster than the time they got. I'm not saying the M3 would have beat the Vette or the Viper and such, but it wouldn't have fared as badly as it did.

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      10-14-2013, 05:25 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F1Venom View Post
Out of all the cars in that comparison, I'd take the Viper. Man that car is amazing.
I don't care for the new design. The car looks too cartoon-like for my tastes. Almost like a caricature of itself. I wish it was an evolution of the 2nd gen Viper instead of a return to the 1st gen design.

The mere fact that they even included the M3 in this test is a testament to its legendary status. It is a 6 year old design and is luxury sports coupe, not a full blown sports car. The one car that should have been in the test was an Audi R8.

Can't wait to see the Z06 Vette !!!!
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