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      07-17-2013, 10:06 PM   #1
Krockit1
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Is Jet Black Just Impossible to Perfect???

Recently bought a 2010 Jet Black coupe with paint correction needed. Took it to a shop that has done work for me in the past (BMW sparkling graphite and Porsche guards red) with fine results. This timey they did a great polish job and fixed a ton of the orange peel, but lots of buffer holographic swirls are still in the finish. I was not happy. They said it will get better with each application of wax. Really.

So my question is - can Jet Black be perfected? I want that mirror finish. Step Next is ??? I am not 100% sold on Opti-Coat. Thanks in advance guys.
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      07-17-2013, 10:17 PM   #2
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Yes, any point can be perfect. Black shows all but when corrected and sealed right is the most rewarding. Do you know if they wet sanded the paint to get orange peel off. If so then try have to start from the beginning. 3 stage cut. And one stage polish. Seal and wax. In this case. When using sandpaper it is very easy to develop new deep scratches that are impossible to remove when each step is not applied correctly. Holograms are easily removed by final polish and minor cut stage. So it's easy to correct. What I have seen happen is that extended time goes into wet sanding the car then shortcuts are taken to release the vehicle and start a new project. Please post a close up of the paint so we can get a better look at the finish. It takes many years of expertise to be able to decide which product is needed to remove certain imperfections.
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Last edited by Chriskm3; 07-17-2013 at 10:54 PM.
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      07-17-2013, 10:26 PM   #3
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Compounding the car should remove a miniscule amount of paint, much less than it would ever take to notice a reduction in orange peel. If they removed enough material to alter the orange peel then they certainly removed way more than enough material to correct any holographic buffer marks. I would assume any marks on the car came from them.

I am an amateur and have never induced holographic buffer marks into a finish.

Applying more wax may hide the marks but this is a Band-Aid fix.
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      07-17-2013, 10:55 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W Cole View Post
Compounding the car should remove a miniscule amount of paint, much less than it would ever take to notice a reduction in orange peel. If they removed enough material to alter the orange peel then they certainly removed way more than enough material to correct any holographic buffer marks. I would assume any marks on the car came from them.

I am an amateur and have never induced holographic buffer marks into a finish.

Applying more wax may hide the marks but this is a Band-Aid fix.
Compounding will not remove orange peel in oem paints. Not enough to provide a perfect mirror finish anyways.
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      07-17-2013, 11:28 PM   #5
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It is very hard to upkeep and perfect. I would say don't go crazy about it because no matter how hard you try it'll always manage to come back.

My recommendation is go with a swiss vax that is specifically designed for black bmw paint and take it from there!
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      07-17-2013, 11:31 PM   #6
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Yes the car was wet sanded by hand in order to reduce the orange peel which, as I understand it, is actually in the clear coat and not the paint itself. The peel was really bad and it has been dramatically reduced. Orbital was to be used next in successive compounds to smooth. The car looks to me like they never got to the finish line (bad pun) on the buffer wheel progression. They supposedly waxed it but that was not impressive either. Surface did not feel slick like my own wax finishes. I will post photos tomorrow if it's a sunny day. Holographs are invisible unless it's a bright day. Cloudy or evening, the car has an incredibly reflective shine. But hard sun.... what a fkn bummer. Really strange... this shop puts out some beautiful cars... concours grade in fact. But I am determined to get it like a mirror.... somewhere else! Thanks again for your help and ideas.
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      07-19-2013, 08:26 AM   #7
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Fellas, got the pix but how to post? is there a link to this site's method to post them? Can't find it.

I worked on the car myself last night.... PS21 cleaner, Meguiar's NXT liquid wax and Ultimate Detailer spray, all by hand. Holograms are gone and the finish is spectacular. Still I feel like I threw that band-aid over it!
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      07-19-2013, 02:34 PM   #8
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If you were in Miami I'd hook you up... I do detailing and I do it right because its a hobby that gets me some cash on the side. I have no interest in anything but doing it right. Holograms are the result of a rush job and/or improper pad and product combo.

Perfect finish is pefectly possible, it just takes time and wax and glaze are NOT the correct answers
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      07-19-2013, 03:16 PM   #9
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You had it wet sanded to remove orange peel? That is a ton of work to do. It is not worth it in my opinion as every new car has orange peel including exotics like Ferrari and Lamborghini.

As for perfect, you can get 90% of the swirls out on Jet Black. They'll come back as you wash and drive it though... Wet sanding it probably increased the swirl problem as you now have to correct the wet sand as well. Basically, you are making more work for yourself.
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      07-19-2013, 03:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W Cole View Post
Compounding the car should remove a miniscule amount of paint, much less than it would ever take to notice a reduction in orange peel. If they removed enough material to alter the orange peel then they certainly removed way more than enough material to correct any holographic buffer marks. I would assume any marks on the car came from them.

I am an amateur and have never induced holographic buffer marks into a finish.

Applying more wax may hide the marks but this is a Band-Aid fix.
I was wondering about that. Get rid of the orange peel?!
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      07-19-2013, 10:59 PM   #11
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Actually, you can take down a huge amount of the orange peel- it is in the clear coat and not in the paint. And these guys did just that. But you are right, a ton of hard work and lots of hours spent hand sanding. Well, it's done and the results are really apparent. They just didn't finish well. The P21S and NXT is working way better than I had hoped and the holograms, as I said, are gone gone. Gonna get Wizard's Mist and Shine tomorrow to finish it off. Will figure out how to post the pix and load the before and after.

BTW I had 2003 and 2005 Porsches, both Guards red- no orange peel. And the newer Ferraris have spectacular paint, as well as the Lambos. Also had A 92 Legend Coupe that was like a black mirror. Put 125,000 miles on it and it still looked beautiful after a buff around 90k, even after years of the hell of Wisconsin daily driving!
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      07-20-2013, 12:04 AM   #12
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Hood photos

In the first photo, the white-silver lines between the wipers and the vents are the holograms. Car is dirty and waterspotted from having just been caught in a blue sky cloud burst.

Second photo is a close up of a flat section next to a hood vent. All the flecks and white noise in these pics are water spots or pollen crud on the panel after the rain. Saturation and contrast is turned way up for these pix. Only thing I was interested in getting was the swirling and holograms. Looks way worse in these photos than on the car. Will post the after (wash/paint cleaned/waxed/Wizard's) tomorrow if it's sunny out.

Last edited by Krockit1; 11-09-2013 at 07:45 AM.
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      07-20-2013, 12:19 AM   #13
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Scary, man!

Yeah I know... hideous. This was taken in macro, inches from the hood panel. Standing over the car, even in bright sun you have to angle your eyes just right to see these swirls. But close up, whew, ugly!

Last edited by Krockit1; 11-09-2013 at 07:45 AM.
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      07-20-2013, 01:23 AM   #14
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When I used to take the time, I have my buffer and megquiars, which do the job nicely. First a clean wash, compounding, then a generous amount of wax. After the compound, the paint is silky smooth already, with the wax just adding to the color. Once it is all done, very few, if any, of those swirl marks (fine or large) are gone.

Nowadays I'm just lazy and busy so I keep the wax on and rinse my car with DI water before drying then use the wash n' wax as a final quick once over to keep up the clean and remove any left over fine particles. i wax quite regularly to prevent water marks from burning in and keeping dirt from swirling the paint. It helps. But that last pic was bad... paint correction that "professional" shouldn't leave anything at all!
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      07-20-2013, 03:13 AM   #15
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Boy, that needs serous work. Looks like they have gone and made the situation even worse. I doubt it would have been like this before it was corrected. I will ask for the money back and go somewhere else. Good luck with the next step.
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      07-20-2013, 04:55 AM   #16
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no bueno there bro. they gave you swirls while trying to get the orange peel out. Or the car had all these swirls already under the wax it had and as the shop prepped the car for sanding, all of these imperfections became very very clear.
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      07-20-2013, 05:57 AM   #17
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Here i'm thinking almost on repaint !
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      07-20-2013, 08:08 AM   #18
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Plain and simple the shop did a poor job. While they may have removed the orange peel they didn't finish/correct the paint. Telling you the finish will "get better with each application of wax" is a rookie response. Applying wax/coatings with fillers isn't correcting the paint and simply a cheap fix that's temporary. Maintaing Black paint can be a full time job.

Last edited by Hagasan41; 07-20-2013 at 10:08 PM.
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      07-20-2013, 07:31 PM   #19
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Fini. For now anyway!

Well I am happy for now even if under a band-aid. P21S, NXT and Wizards did their tricks. Holograms are GONE. Shine is, well, check it out.... Stil,l I am going round three with the shop that did the orange peel fix. FInish is about 90% there. Pretty sure they are going to make it right. After the first washing will be the acid test.

Last edited by Krockit1; 11-09-2013 at 07:45 AM.
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      07-20-2013, 08:29 PM   #20
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If it rains or you wash it, everything will come back. You don't use a band-aid for a bullet wound. Get them to do right by you, at least some money back, so you can get the paint corrected properly.
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      07-20-2013, 10:09 PM   #21
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Looks good in the latest photos.
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      10-18-2013, 12:35 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonio1988 View Post
If you were in Miami I'd hook you up... I do detailing and I do it right because its a hobby that gets me some cash on the side. I have no interest in anything but doing it right. Holograms are the result of a rush job and/or improper pad and product combo.

Perfect finish is pefectly possible, it just takes time and wax and glaze are NOT the correct answers
Hey I'm actually in miami and hoping to get these holograms correctly the right way. I'd appreciate your Help. How can I get in contact with you?
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