BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General BMW News and Cars Discussion
 
ESS Tuning
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-15-2013, 06:49 PM   #23
DrakeKemper
Sexiest Man Alive
 
DrakeKemper's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 E92 M3
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 736
iTrader: (0)

It's probably because they want to make a 10 series or some bullshit
__________________
2008 E90 M3 - 6MT - AA Gen 2 Level 3
1991 Hot Girlfriend
DrakeKemper is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2013, 07:14 PM   #24
silentassasin
You wont see me coming....
 
silentassasin's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 BMW 535 M-Sport
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Orange County, CA

Posts: 1,302
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
Well I say never. Because as I have countlessly mentioned there is no space for a V8 or whatever else needed such as a new DCT transmission.

The i8 will remain as it is. And at it is current status the i8 is very fast and agile , a true sports car albeit a progressive one. To add any conventional ideas to the i8 defeats the purpose of the i8 and its intentions of a sports car in a Brave New World.

That's not to say that ideas are on the table on how they can use the i8s genes for something else.
I would love that car in a V8. But as Scott mentioned. There is no room for engine/transmission. But one can hope for a potential resurrection of the 8 series that adopts some of those lines/design.
__________________


White on Black F10 M Sport
silentassasin is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2013, 07:22 PM   #25
dreamspeed
Major
 
dreamspeed's Avatar
 
Drives: 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 1,049
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake C
Yeah I know we have been told no 30 different ways. However some people would be quick to point out M SUV's, M Turbocharging, and BMW adopting FWD. So I think a lot of people will remain skeptical.

- J
Yup, as soon as the bean counters can show its profitable, they will make it.
__________________
dreamspeed is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2013, 07:22 PM   #26
RussRamz
M Slut
 
RussRamz's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 M3 Coupe Mineral White
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Adenau, GE via 3 years in dreadful El Paso, TX

Posts: 565
iTrader: (0)

Send a message via ICQ to RussRamz
no i///M? Thank f'ing God!!! I've already given up on BMW... Porsche is all that's left.
__________________
You have to be 100% behind someone before you can stab them in the back.

David Brent
RussRamz is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2013, 07:35 PM   #27
Chris Pringle
Private
 
Drives: 2014 X1 sDrive20i
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Mexico

Posts: 64
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anodite10 View Post
X1M? X3M? X4M? Awesome!
Out of those, the current highly successful X1 client base (and to some extent the X3) is the one that could graduate into M territory, IMO. A compact 5-door SAV (non-coupe) that offers lots of power, excels in handling/responsiveness with RWD, etc. Fine if BMW wants to make it more powerful, fuel efficient ( la i8), along with xDrive and even give it a different code name (e.g., X2, X2M, iX2). But no thanks if it means having a FWD-biased UKL platform. There is already MINI for that.
Chris Pringle is offline   Mexico
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2013, 07:42 PM   #28
btbossman
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 2013 335xi M sport--2014 M6
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Charlotte, NC

Posts: 1,526
iTrader: (0)

Good!
btbossman is online now   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2013, 08:19 PM   #29
Luminor513
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: F10 535i
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: South Florida

Posts: 296
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpokenHands View Post
There will never be a front wheel drive BMW.
There will never be an M version of an X model.
There will not be an M sport version of the luxury-oriented 5GT.
There will never be an M badged diesel.
BMW don't do electric assisted power steering
M cars are manual only.


Never say never. Ask BMW.
+1 History WILL repeat itself. Not the first time BMW bosses have said one thing and done another. Maybe one day we will see an M i8.
__________________
2014 DGM 535i M-Sport
Luminor513 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2013, 08:31 PM   #30
atopa2002
Private First Class
 
Drives: Z3, LCI e90 335i, 2013 e92 M3
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Richmond,VA

Posts: 174
iTrader: (1)

If you guys were to run BMW,it will go bankrupt in 2 yrs.
atopa2002 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2013, 08:45 PM   #31
sonicbimmer19
Lieutenant
 
Drives: E88 and F32
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Posts: 481
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by misterbeemer View Post
How does it matter? The M badge has been whored out so much lately! They'll probably have an i8 MSport package and put an M badge all over it for more sales. :-/
Agreed. M sport package has really watered down the actual M.
98% of people look at a base/standard car with M package and think "oh, that's an M car"

My friend has a 128i with M package and he gets asked ALL THE TIME, "is that 1M?" sigh...

The aura and the awesomeness of M has been gone a long time ago. Memory of the M1 can only last so long.

I'm super glad there won't be M version of i8. Let there be a stand alone M1 successor. As well as 8 series, X7, Z8 successor, etc.
sonicbimmer19 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2013, 09:15 PM   #32
ddk632
Professional Orangeer
 
Drives: Bacon
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South Florida

Posts: 1,921
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Interesting comments and thread. Let's not take this down the M Badge watering down rabbit hole... we all know where it ends and this isn't the thread for it.

To Scott's lengthy explanation of the dogmas, it is evident (and quite common sense) that market demands drive the changes that have caused these dogmas to disappear and be thrown out the window.

It makes sense. If BMW doesn't do this, then they go the way of Kodak, and we don't want that.

I see a couple of things
  1. No ///M version of i8, ok. However, WHEN (not if) the market demands more performance out of the future sports car, BMWi will deliver, just as it has/is with the 6 dogmas in Scott's answer. It may take more advanced battery tech (more power without adding weight) combined with a way to get higher output of the 3 cylinder, which is already impressive.
  2. Seeing what BMW can do with the i8, the recent concepts like the M1 Hommage, Gina, etc., I have no doubt that the M division can build the car everyone is asking for, which would compete with the SLS and the likes. This isn't that car. And, if they are building THAT car, they sure as hell are being tight-lipped about it!

I personally think that for the first iteration of a from-the-ground-up hybrid sports car, the i8 has very respectable numbers and it also has room to grow. Inevitably, BMWi will find a way to make it more powerful/faster/sportier without sacrificing the key qualities of BMWi. Just not this first iteration, and that's ok.

And yes I know there is the Porsche 918 but again that's an exotic supercar with a huge (practically LeMans derived) engine, and to me it's a hybrid just to say it's a hybrid. The BMWi brand is about the hybrid tech/philisophy at the core, and it makes sense that they won't mess with that by sticking a V8 in a BMWi vehicle.

I think part of the inherent success of the i8 is in all the negative comments. It looks like it should be a supercar, and people are disappointed that it isn't.

What if we think of the i8 as the M3 of the future?
(Yes it's not a track car, but again with new battery tech that is bound to be developed this will likely change)

That way we're not expecting the end-all be-all of sports cars. We are expecting an everyday car with serious performance. Which the i8 has. Remember, there is a large gap between a Ford Focus and an SLS AMG Black Series.

You can't have it both ways.

We all complain that the usual hybrid looks like an econoshitbox and drives like your grandmother sleepy on vicodin, and now we have a real world hybrid that looks out of this world and performs like an M3 (quoted from BMW not my assertion) and we are all upset that it's not a Porsche 918 killer for 1/10th of the price.

If we change our expectations about this car, I think a lot more people would be able to understand its purpose.

OK off my soap box, we can go back to lamenting the proliferation of M badges on everything that has wheels and the letters B, M, or W anywhere in its name....
__________________
ddk632 | David Khaykin | (The K* is Silent!)
flickr photos [ Best Of | BMW | Motorcycles & DSLR's ]
* First K only, credit to Billup

Last edited by ddk632; 09-16-2013 at 06:44 PM. Reason: Formatting
ddk632 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2013, 09:57 PM   #33
pkimM3r
Banned
 
pkimM3r's Avatar
 
Drives: m3 saloon in granny mode.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: lost angeles

Posts: 7,321
iTrader: (0)

M-i? Why not? It was in the M:I (Mission: Impossible) franchise already but that would be just weird.
pkimM3r is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2013, 10:13 PM   #34
Oliver1
Private First Class
 
Drives: Miss Daisy
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Midwest

Posts: 155
iTrader: (0)

Scott is just playing the role of a typical car salesman and is trying to sell you what he has on the lot or has coming in. No plans for an M8 but hey we have an all new M4 coming in soon that is just as good. Except it looks very much like a 328i M Sport at half the price.

The i8 will share the same footnote in the history of BMW as the M1. A nice effort but poor execution.

A 'true sports car' doesn't have a tiny 3 cylinder engine. For the same price you can get an M6 with twice the performance. The performance of the i8 is what you expect from an i4 but then BMW couldn't charge twice the price to re-coupe the R&D costs.

Other than the CFRP, which has been around for how many years now? There is nothing earth shattering about the i3/i8. Put a perpetual motion machine in the cars to generate electricity and you will really have a game changer. BMW i PR reminds me of when the Segway came on the scene and how it was going to revolutionize transportation.
Oliver1 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2013, 10:15 PM   #35
Yay-Z
Shifting to Top Gear
 
Yay-Z's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 M3/F30 328i
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Houston, TX

Posts: 477
iTrader: (0)

Probably cos they're trying to not sacrifice sales of this i8. If they went around saying we would make an m version it would probably hurt sales.

I do see them using some of the technology from this car in future m models.
__________________
2011 E90 M3 DCT
2013 F30 328i SAT
2011 E92 335i 6MT (Gone, will be missed)
Yay-Z is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2013, 10:21 PM   #36
bavarianboar
Major
 
bavarianboar's Avatar
 
Drives: on the freeway
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: SoCal

Posts: 1,366
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Pringle View Post
"There will be no 'M' i-Car in the future." - Obviously not if a car like the i8 is meant to compete directly against the best M supercar ever produced.

I don't know anything about how BMW works internally, but does some big wig at BMW want the rise of a new division and the slow death of a great one?

The new i division is obviously working in its own information silo, feeling they have no need to consult the M division on anything they do. I bet great things would come out if they collaborated together.
How do you know this? Enlighten us!
__________________

2014 335i MSport Mineral Gray Metallic, Coral Red, Premium/Cold Weather/Dynamic Handling. 19" 403M wheels, Sport Auto, Delivery: 10/18

2011 328i Sedan. Deep Sea Blue/Oyster. Gone but not forgotten.
bavarianboar is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-15-2013, 11:57 PM   #37
sonicbimmer19
Lieutenant
 
Drives: E88 and F32
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA

Posts: 481
iTrader: (1)

I think BMW i8 is a sports car and a super car. It's just a different type of a car and it is literally one of a kind with no direct competition.

It absolutely is a sports car but is it a super car? the performance isn't quite a prototypical super car, but I think price and exclusivity is more important when discussing what's a super car.

BMW has done a great job with the i8. Except the genius decision of deserting a BMW design icon and implementing a signature Audi design. I cannot put into words how dumb I think the executives at BMW are. If I build a revolutionary BMW car, I make sure it is a BMW, not a BMW that is going to make everyone think "oh, Audi lights"

On the side note, this should not make BMW feel sufficient to go ahead and scrap plans for a "proper" stand alone sports/super car. I'm giving BMW until 2020 for higher end cars such as 8 series, X7, and a proper super car. If not, I'm jumping ship and upgrading to Mercedes.
sonicbimmer19 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      09-16-2013, 01:00 AM   #38
CasZy NL
Private First Class
 
CasZy NL's Avatar
 
Drives: M3 | 335i | X5 | Z1
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Netherlands

Posts: 171
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2005 BMW M3  [5.00]
2012 BMW 335i  [4.50]
2008 BMW X5 35d  [5.00]
1991 BMW Z1  [5.00]
Those M wheels look great under the i8!
CasZy NL is offline   Netherlands
0
Reply With Quote
      09-16-2013, 01:04 AM   #39
Chris Pringle
Private
 
Drives: 2014 X1 sDrive20i
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Mexico

Posts: 64
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bavarianboar View Post
How do you know this? Enlighten us!
Goodness, where are people's reading skills these days? It doesn't take much to read between the lines to deduce how these divisions operate:

Mr. Frankenberg says that not only was there zero input from M engineers in the development of the i8

Carsten Pries:
It’s two different operations, there’s no fluctuation from BMW M to BMW i or any big transfers going the other way.

Scott26 further explains why BMW believes it is important to maintain such division (brand) independence in the achievement of their core philosophies:

for BMW , independence is the overall strategy or you become part of a committee which defines your strategy only if your sister brands can have it.

Last edited by Chris Pringle; 09-16-2013 at 01:11 AM.
Chris Pringle is offline   Mexico
0
Reply With Quote
      09-16-2013, 01:30 AM   #40
Thurman Murch
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Island in the sun

Posts: 380
iTrader: (0)

Scott had alluded to the wraith as being the top of the line BMW-derived sports car so to speak

For just ramming down the bahn or strada would be great

Hopefully we see some cooler i-derived products and a M10... I wouldn't mind the 6.6L V12TT in a rear setup mated to dct or manual or add 2 more turbos
Thurman Murch is offline   Seychelles
0
Reply With Quote
      09-16-2013, 02:29 AM   #41
devitocoke
Bimmer Freak
 
devitocoke's Avatar
 
Drives: 2006 325i
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Pembroke Pines, Florida

Posts: 125
iTrader: (1)

Mi8, sounds good to me.
devitocoke is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      09-16-2013, 05:43 AM   #42
Matski
Captain
 
Matski's Avatar
 
Drives: A slow BMW
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: England

Posts: 625
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
Unfortunately the ever changing aspects of the industry forced us to accept no more dogmas as legislation and customer reaction has lead to a progressive global market. You either progress? Which for BMW , independence is the overall strategy or you become part of a committee which defines your strategy only if your sister brands can have it.

...

For BMW M. It understands that the purest form of performance driving lies with a manual transmission which is why the upcoming BMW M3 and BMW M4 will be offered with a manual transmission as will the next generation BMW M2 Coupe.
SCOTT thanks for confirming these points, to be honest I think it was stating the obvious a little, but I guess some people do need it pointing out over and over again! So thanks for your patience!

Whilst I personally don't have a problem with BMW embracing certain technologies if it's what the market demands and legislation requires, I do worry about another Dogma no longer Holding true:-

"BMW's live up to their reputation as being the primary choice for the buyer who wants the most solid and sporting, involved, driving experience in any given segment"

... because it seems to me that both Mercedes-Benz and Audi have gained some ground here, in terms of product and general perception.
__________________
3/15 to i8, and everything in between (yep, even including the F26 and F45)
Matski is offline   England
0
Reply With Quote
      09-16-2013, 06:20 AM   #43
SpokenHands
Certified Car Nut
 
SpokenHands's Avatar
 
Drives: Maserati GT + 640d GC + 116i
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Warwickshire, England

Posts: 367
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matski View Post
SCOTT thanks for confirming these points, to be honest I think it was stating the obvious a little, but I guess some people do need it pointing out over and over again! So thanks for your patience!
Scott26's elaborate justification of why BMW has broken every dogma they have set themselves in an effort to be more consumer-relevant, business-volume and margin-driven, and compliant with technology and regulation suggests it is not a good idea to boldly announce yet another definitive dogma 'no M for i-sub-brand'.

Scott26 makes the point beautifully that I hope the leaders of the i brand would consider.

Conversely, what if the 'M' brand wishes to take learnings from the 'i' brand - especially with regard to CRPF, weight-saving and efficiency in drivetrain and aerodynamics. They could well work together.
__________________

Current: 2013 Maserati GranTurismo (April) + 2013 6 Series BMW GranCoupe (October) + 2012 BMW 1 Series SportsHatch (August)
Retired: 2012 Maserati GranTurismo, 2009 5 Series GT, 2007 BMW M5, 2006 BMW 1 Series

Last edited by SpokenHands; 09-16-2013 at 06:25 AM.
SpokenHands is offline   United Kingdom
0
Reply With Quote
      09-16-2013, 06:45 AM   #44
SomeRandomer123
Colonel
 
SomeRandomer123's Avatar
 
Drives: F30 328i Luxury - Sport Auto
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Lancashire, North West England, UK

Posts: 2,550
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by atopa2002
If you guys were to run BMW,it will go bankrupt in 2 yrs.
+1
__________________

Gone: 2006 BMW E60 520d SE 6MT
Gone: 2009 BMW E90-LCI 330d SE 6MT
Current: 2012 F30 328i Luxury 8AT
My 328i initial thoughts + media!http://www.f30post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=712673
SomeRandomer123 is offline   England
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
bmw i forum, bmw i forums, bmw i8 crystal white, bmw i8 forum, bmw i8 forums, bmw i8 ionic silver, bmw i8 order, bmw i8 ordering, bmw i8 price, bmw i8 prices, bmw i8 pricing, bmw i8 protonic blue, bmw i8 sophisto gray, bmw i8 sophisto grey, bmw i8 video, bmw i8 videos, crystal white i8, i forum, i forums, i8 crystal white, i8 forum, i8 forums, i8 ionic silver, i8 protonic blue, i8 sophisto gray, i8 sophisto grey, i8 video, i8 videos, ionic silver i8, protonic blue i8, sophisto gray i8, sophisto grey i8

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:33 PM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST