BMW M3 Forum (E90 E92)

BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Go Back   M3Post - BMW M3 Forum > E90/E92 M3 Technical Topics > Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Drivetrain, ECU Software Modifications
 
INDustry distribution
Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      09-14-2013, 12:07 AM   #1
BMRLVR
Grease Monkey
Canada
39

 
BMRLVR's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E90 M3,1994 Euro E36 M3/4
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada


Posts: 2,331
iTrader: (3)

Bearing clearance discussion!

So guys it appears bigjay1976 wants me to shut up about the potential issue because I am spreading crap and I am campaigning people to switch over to 0W40.

I will see no personal gain from people setting their bearing clearances to my recommended specs nor will I benefit in any way from people running the 0W40. I am posting the information I am posting on here because engines are my profession and to be quite frank the clearance specs combined with the oil recommendation for the S65 and S85 scares the shit out of me. I know it is not right in any stretch if the imagination and that with these numbers and oil the majority of these engines will not last much beyond 100,000 miles.

My information is solely a service to the community and if it is not wanted I will stop posting! So guys, please let me know!
__________________
2011 E90 M3 ZCP - Individual Moonstone/Individual Amarone Extended/Individual Piano Black With Inlay:LINK!!!
1994 Euro E36 M3 Sedan - Daytona Violet/Mulberry:LINK!!!
Appreciate 0
      09-14-2013, 12:18 AM   #2
pkimM3r
Banned
92

 
pkimM3r's Avatar
 
Drives: m3 saloon in granny mode.
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: lost angeles


Posts: 7,321
iTrader: (0)

Good idea but id rather not have bmw deny warranty on a blown motor because of not using the recommended oil. Maybe after warranty.
Appreciate 0
      09-14-2013, 01:05 AM   #3
Wendall
***Major MammelToe
United_States
35

 
Wendall's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3 SG coupe
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Orange County, CA


Posts: 1,146
iTrader: (3)

BMRLVR, keep posting! your knowledge has been very helpful to many people on the forums.
__________________
E92 M3 SG DCT - AA Filter, Verstraβe Paddles, ECS SS, MH race stud, Stoptech BBK, MR Exhaust,RE Pulley, BPM Tune,Euro bumper and GTS lip, Euro MDM & DCT, KW CS, Recaro PP, TMS Soild Diff Mounts, MRF solid subframe mounts, GTS aero, RPM track built motor.

Appreciate 0
      09-14-2013, 01:25 AM   #4
chuxdelux
Captain
10

 
Drives: 2005 e46 m3, 2013 Jetta TDI
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Honolulu,HI


Posts: 638
iTrader: (1)

Im always down to learn more about these engines.
Appreciate 0
      09-14-2013, 01:52 AM   #5
schnell325
Bored at work....
Canada
43

 
schnell325's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 M3,'11 335xi
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: BC


Posts: 3,868
iTrader: (5)

Good stuff from you Jaime Keep it up.
__________________
'08 M3: AA G2L3, Catless X-Pipe & Sig Series Rear. AP rods. TC Kline EDC Coil Overs. MRF Alum Sub Frame Bushings. TMS Delrin Diff'l Bushings. BFI Motor Mounts. Recaro PP. BMW Perf Steering Wheel. P3 Gauge. PS Overflow Kit. APEX ARC-8 18"x9.5"/10.5". Conti Slicks 275/35F 305/30R. Stoptech Pads/SS Lines. Cantrell Brake Ducts.
http://5252motorsports.blogspot.ca/2...3-sleeper.html
Appreciate 0
      09-14-2013, 02:17 AM   #6
FogCityM3
Lieutenant Colonel
31

 
FogCityM3's Avatar
 
Drives: M3 (E90)
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: San Francisco


Posts: 1,664
iTrader: (0)

Even though some or I may not be in full agreement, always useful to have point/counterpoint discussions in a constructive manner. Therefore I'm in favor of continuing such discussions. Thx for asking members about it.
Appreciate 0
      09-14-2013, 02:49 AM   #7
aussiem3
Lieutenant Colonel
Australia
29

 
aussiem3's Avatar
 
Drives: Goggomobil
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kangaroo land


Posts: 1,663
iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2014 BMW X5 30d  [0.00]
2007 E92 M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
So guys it appears bigjay1976 wants me to shut up about the potential issue because I am spreading crap and I am campaigning people to switch over to 0W40.

I will see no personal gain from people setting their bearing clearances to my recommended specs nor will I benefit in any way from people running the 0W40. I am posting the information I am posting on here because engines are my profession and to be quite frank the clearance specs combined with the oil recommendation for the S65 and S85 scares the shit out of me. I know it is not right in any stretch if the imagination and that with these numbers and oil the majority of these engines will not last much beyond 100,000 miles.

My information is solely a service to the community and if it is not wanted I will stop posting! So guys, please let me know!
Don't take notice of time wasters. Yes, everyone is entitled the 2c but the information you, regular guy and Kawasaki have provided have been invaluable. Keep up the good work.

I only wish someone is willing to make the bearing we want. The SC and all other cosmetic mods are selling in bucket loads ... I just wish someone will invest in getting this bearing issue resolved. I am sure people will be queuing up to buy. I am sure we can find good numbers on this forum alone.
__________________

2007 E92 6MT - Silverstone II with /// Performance Exhaust with ACM Test Pipes and BPM Sport Stage II Dev-Tune - Proper engine warm up, 12-monthly oil change, Castrol TWS 10w-60
2014 F15 X5 3.0d
Appreciate 0
      09-14-2013, 07:14 AM   #8
IMG
M.POWER
103

 
IMG's Avatar
 
Drives: E36 M3 Track car,Ess E90 M3 DD
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Location


Posts: 7,060
iTrader: (6)

All your posts are informative and down to the point. I personally appreciate reading them and i've learned a lot. Thank You Sir !
__________________
NO FEAR.NO LIMITS.NO EQUAL

Ess VT3 LC built motor,Volk TE37SL,Euro taillights,Dinan Xpipe,Custom Headers,Akra axle back CF tips,ModeCarbon FR lip,BMW CF wing
LOW BOOST 60-130 6.7 sec
Appreciate 0
      09-14-2013, 07:18 AM   #9
GIdriver
Major
United_States
16

 
GIdriver's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 C63 AMG P31
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Somewhere in Time


Posts: 1,341
iTrader: (0)

I personally appreciate the fact that you, Regular guy and Kawasaki share your knowledge and experience with the community. That goes for other knowledgable members as well perhaps in other areas (electronics, physics, track/racing, etc). Lets keep these kind of discussions going for the benefit of the community.
Appreciate 0
      09-14-2013, 08:05 AM   #10
CBS
Major
United_States
14

 
CBS's Avatar
 
Drives: F10 535, E90 M3, E30 M3
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Wilkes-Barre, PA


Posts: 1,132
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2014 535xi M Sport  [0.00]
2014 X3 3.5 M Sport  [0.00]
2011 M3 E90  [4.89]
2008 X5  [0.00]
1990 BMW M3  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by img View Post
All your posts are informative and down to the point. I personally appreciate reading them and i've learned a lot. Thank You Sir !
Fully agreed. I too have appreciated reading and learning from them as well.
Keep 'em coming OP.....
__________________

ESS VT-1 550 | M24 Oil Cooler | Fall Line Half Cage | RaceTech 4009W | 6 pt Harness | Lifeline Zero 360 Fire Suppression | Rear Seat Delete | Motion Control DA Dampers w/remote reservoirs | 900/650 Hyperco Springs | RD Sport Sway Bars | Brembo 380 BBK | GC Camber Plates | Hoosier R6 | Eisenmann Sport | Stack Gauges | Painted Challenge Front Lip | Painted ZCP Rear Spoiler | Xpel Ultimate Film | LuxAngelEyes
Appreciate 0
      09-14-2013, 08:20 AM   #11
rantarM3
First Lieutenant
3

 
Drives: E90 M3
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Florida


Posts: 315
iTrader: (1)

I may not agree with you on some points but we're all adults here and can make our own decisions based on the information that's out there. If someone wants to change their oil based on the information you and others post, that's his decision and it's not as if you should be responsible. Ignore bigjay1976 and keep on posting.
Appreciate 0
      09-14-2013, 09:43 AM   #12
dreamspeed
Major
United_States
13

 
dreamspeed's Avatar
 
Drives: 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Los Angeles


Posts: 1,082
iTrader: (0)

I'm of the opinion that people can post whatever they want.... Since I don't have to read it if I don't want to.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      09-14-2013, 10:59 AM   #13
regular guy
Banned
21

 
Drives: Sprint car
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California


Posts: 1,375
iTrader: (0)

If BMW always knows best, and they are always right, then they wouldn't be on the third crankshaft revision for S65, and the rod bearings wouldn't have changed material from 088/089 to 702/703. That alone says they didn't think they got it right if they had to change it.

I realize the bearing change might have been mandated by law, but the crankshaft change wasn't. And if the new bearings really are better than the old, then BMW would have chosen those to begin with instead of changing them after only 12 months of production.

Just my $0.02, and please keep posting BMRLVR.
Appreciate 0
      09-14-2013, 11:21 AM   #14
SYT_Shadow
///M Powered for Life
United_States
2

 
Drives: 2x01 330, 02 M3, 13 ZCP M3
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NYC


Posts: 228
iTrader: (0)

Please continue to post
Appreciate 0
      09-14-2013, 11:23 AM   #15
GIdriver
Major
United_States
16

 
GIdriver's Avatar
 
Drives: 2012 C63 AMG P31
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Somewhere in Time


Posts: 1,341
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by regular guy View Post
If BMW always knows best, and they are always right, then they wouldn't be on the third crankshaft revision for S65, and the rod bearings wouldn't have changed material from 088/089 to 702/703. That alone says they didn't think they got it right if they had to change it.

I realize the bearing change might have been mandated by law, but the crankshaft change wasn't. And if the new bearings really are better than the old, then BMW would have chosen those to begin with instead of changing them after only 12 months of production.

Just my $0.02, and please keep posting BMRLVR.
Hmmm. I was under the impression these parts were the same since 2008. Good to know. Do you know in what month and year they changed these parts. Sorry if this has been discussed before.
Appreciate 0
      09-14-2013, 12:22 PM   #16
Leonardo629
Major
United_States
13

 
Drives: 2013 M3 Coupe
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Walnut, CA


Posts: 1,206
iTrader: (9)

crankshaft bearings have been different since 2008/10, but conn rod bearings are still the same...at least that's what realoem.com tells me.
Appreciate 0
      09-14-2013, 01:08 PM   #17
Phanto///M
First Lieutenant
4

 
Phanto///M's Avatar
 
Drives: 08 E92 M3
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Long Island


Posts: 384
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBS View Post
Fully agreed. I too have appreciated reading and learning from them as well.
Keep 'em coming OP.....
I agree with Izzy and Chris, it is nice to have some real engine builders around that know what they are talking about. Most of us just know how to spend money on mods.

I really enjoy reading your posts, I learn a lot, so please keep them coming.

Thanks!
I agree with you guys. Always good to learn more about our engines from an outside source.
Appreciate 0
      09-14-2013, 01:11 PM   #18
regular guy
Banned
21

 
Drives: Sprint car
Join Date: May 2013
Location: California


Posts: 1,375
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by GIdriver View Post
Hmmm. I was under the impression these parts were the same since 2008. Good to know. Do you know in what month and year they changed these parts. Sorry if this has been discussed before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonardo629 View Post
crankshaft bearings have been different since 2008/10, but conn rod bearings are still the same...at least that's what realoem.com tells me.
We all thought the same thing and many arguments have been fought over this topic. But a few weeks ago, I got to the bottom of it. Realoem removed the old part number from their database, and this is why we all thought the rod bearing part number had not changed.

Here's what I posted in another thread:

Got a lot more information. There have apparently been three different S65 crankshafts, and two sets of connecting rods. Maybe somebody with better BMW connections (hint, hint, Tom@EAS) can fill in the blanks. You will be surprised, I even found +.001 bearings and they are currently available!

BTW, this wasn't easy to track down. Had to look in catalogs out of country, etc. Called local dealer and confirmed they are all valid part numbers, and +size bearings are still available using these part numbers.

Crankshafts:
11 21 7 838 641 Crankshaft, Ended (no date given), no weight given
11 21 7 841 658 Crankshaft, Ended (October 2008), 20.400 kg
11 21 0 443 639 Crankshaft, Current production, 23.840 kg

Main Bearings:
11 21 7 841 488 Main Bearing Top, Yellow, Ended (October 2008)
11 21 7 841 609 Main Bearing Top, Yellow, Replaced 488 bearing
11 21 7 841 489 Main Bearing Top, Green, Ended (October 2008)
11 21 7 841 610 Main Bearing Top, Green, Replaced 489 bearing
11 21 7 841 490 Main Bearing Top, Violet, Ended (October 2008)
11 21 7 841 611 Main Bearing Top, Violet, Replaced 490 bearing
11 21 7 841 483 Main Bearing Bottom, Yellow, Ended (October 2008)
11 21 7 841 605 Main Bearing Bottom, Yellow, Replaced 483 bearing
11 21 7 841 484 Main Bearing Bottom, Green, Ended (October 2008)
11 21 7 841 606 Main Bearing Bottom, Green, Replaced 484 bearing
11 21 7 841 485 Main Bearing Bottom, Violet, Ended (October 2008)
11 21 7 841 607 Main Bearing Bottom, Violet, Replaced 485 bearing

Rod Bearings:
11 24 7 838 089 Rod Bearing Blue, 53.000 mm, +0.000 mm, Ended (no date given, but hints at July '08)
11 24 7 841 703 Rod Bearing Blue, 53.000 mm, +0.000 mm, Replacement for 089 bearing.
11 24 7 838 091 Rod Bearing Blue, 52.750 mm, +0.250 mm, Currently available

11 24 7 838 088 Rod Bearing Red, 53.000 mm, +0.000 mm, Ended (no date given, but hints at July '08)
11 24 7 841 702 Rod Bearing Red, 53.000 mm, +0.000 mm, Replacement for 088 bearing.
11 24 7 838 090 Rod Bearing Red, 52.750 mm, +0.250 mm, Currently available

I have verbal confirmation that some bearings replaced at another SoCal shop have 088/089 stamped on the back. So this would be pretty strong evidence along with information posted by Tom & B767capt that the rod bearings have indeed been superseded since production began. Most likely they were superseded in October 2008 when the crankshaft and main bearings were superseded. I will take pictures when I see these bearings in person.

Since I posted this, I ordered and received samples of each of these rod bearings including the oversized bearings. Yesterday, I measured and photographed all of the rod bearings.

Rod Bearings:
11 24 7 838 089 Blue, 53.000 mm, +0.000 mm, 0.07890" Thick, Ended
11 24 7 841 703 Blue, 53.000 mm, +0.000 mm, 0.07890" Thick, Replacement for 089 bearing
11 24 7 838 091 Blue, 52.750 mm, +0.250 mm, 0.08370" Thick, Currently available

11 24 7 838 088 Red, 53.000 mm, +0.000 mm, 0.07875" Thick, Ended
11 24 7 841 702 Red, 53.000 mm, +0.000 mm, 0.07875" Thick, Replacement for 088 bearing
11 24 7 838 090 Red, 52.750 mm, +0.250 mm, 0.08370" Thick, Currently available

Here's a photo of the old and new bearings side-by-side with part numbers shown. As seen in the photo, the bearing surfaces are quite different.

Name:  DSC08486_Small.jpg
Views: 9350
Size:  170.9 KB
Appreciate 0
      09-14-2013, 01:35 PM   #19
L4ces
Captain
United_States
8

 
L4ces's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 E92 M3 Alpine White
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Nj


Posts: 700
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2008 M3  [0.00]
Please guys, continue your contributions, ideas, facts and opinions are all welcomed!

By they has anyone come across this article from Lang racing? I am on my mobile so there may be a thread already mentioning it. Different engine but a similar problem?

http://<a href="http://www.langracin...ation-kit/</a>

Edit:
The Lang Racing post is a thread of its own. Sorry, please ignore :-)
Appreciate 0
      09-14-2013, 01:50 PM   #20
HeartMD
Captain
United_States
11

 
HeartMD's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011.75 MW,ZCP E92
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: CT


Posts: 653
iTrader: (0)

I too have learnt a ton from you guys. Members like you regular guy and kawasaki are major assets to this forum. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us and please keep posting.
__________________
2011.75 E92 MW/BB extended,ZCP,ZP2,ZCV, IPOD,BMW APPS, Heatedseats,6MT, Edition Black Chrome Grills & Side Gills, CF splitters, CF performance spoiler, CF mirror caps, Turner black anodized pedals, Akropovic Evolution exhaust w/CF tips, Still Undecided on tune, AFE Pro5r, AFE intake scoops, LUX H8
2009 E92 JB/Black 335 xdrive (retired)
Appreciate 0
      09-14-2013, 02:01 PM   #21
lsal
We are all Longwong
20

 
lsal's Avatar
 
Drives: E92 M3 Frozen Blue
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Cambridge, MA


Posts: 833
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2013 BMW M3  [5.00]
Keep it coming man!
Appreciate 0
      09-14-2013, 02:11 PM   #22
e92zero
Lieutenant
6

 
Drives: 2011 E92 BW
Join Date: May 2010
Location: somewhere in US


Posts: 557
iTrader: (0)

Please continue the contribution and sharing of knowledge.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:56 AM.




m3post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST