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      09-14-2013, 12:07 AM   #1
BMRLVR
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Bearing clearance discussion!

So guys it appears bigjay1976 wants me to shut up about the potential issue because I am spreading crap and I am campaigning people to switch over to 0W40.

I will see no personal gain from people setting their bearing clearances to my recommended specs nor will I benefit in any way from people running the 0W40. I am posting the information I am posting on here because engines are my profession and to be quite frank the clearance specs combined with the oil recommendation for the S65 and S85 scares the shit out of me. I know it is not right in any stretch if the imagination and that with these numbers and oil the majority of these engines will not last much beyond 100,000 miles.

My information is solely a service to the community and if it is not wanted I will stop posting! So guys, please let me know!
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      09-14-2013, 12:18 AM   #2
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Good idea but id rather not have bmw deny warranty on a blown motor because of not using the recommended oil. Maybe after warranty.
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      09-14-2013, 01:05 AM   #3
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BMRLVR, keep posting! your knowledge has been very helpful to many people on the forums.
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      09-14-2013, 01:25 AM   #4
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Im always down to learn more about these engines.
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      09-14-2013, 01:52 AM   #5
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Good stuff from you Jaime Keep it up.
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      09-14-2013, 02:17 AM   #6
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Even though some or I may not be in full agreement, always useful to have point/counterpoint discussions in a constructive manner. Therefore I'm in favor of continuing such discussions. Thx for asking members about it.
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      09-14-2013, 02:49 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMRLVR View Post
So guys it appears bigjay1976 wants me to shut up about the potential issue because I am spreading crap and I am campaigning people to switch over to 0W40.

I will see no personal gain from people setting their bearing clearances to my recommended specs nor will I benefit in any way from people running the 0W40. I am posting the information I am posting on here because engines are my profession and to be quite frank the clearance specs combined with the oil recommendation for the S65 and S85 scares the shit out of me. I know it is not right in any stretch if the imagination and that with these numbers and oil the majority of these engines will not last much beyond 100,000 miles.

My information is solely a service to the community and if it is not wanted I will stop posting! So guys, please let me know!
Don't take notice of time wasters. Yes, everyone is entitled the 2c but the information you, regular guy and Kawasaki have provided have been invaluable. Keep up the good work.

I only wish someone is willing to make the bearing we want. The SC and all other cosmetic mods are selling in bucket loads ... I just wish someone will invest in getting this bearing issue resolved. I am sure people will be queuing up to buy. I am sure we can find good numbers on this forum alone.
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      09-14-2013, 07:14 AM   #8
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All your posts are informative and down to the point. I personally appreciate reading them and i've learned a lot. Thank You Sir !
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      09-14-2013, 07:18 AM   #9
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I personally appreciate the fact that you, Regular guy and Kawasaki share your knowledge and experience with the community. That goes for other knowledgable members as well perhaps in other areas (electronics, physics, track/racing, etc). Lets keep these kind of discussions going for the benefit of the community.
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      09-14-2013, 08:05 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by img View Post
All your posts are informative and down to the point. I personally appreciate reading them and i've learned a lot. Thank You Sir !
Fully agreed. I too have appreciated reading and learning from them as well.
Keep 'em coming OP.....
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      09-14-2013, 08:20 AM   #11
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I may not agree with you on some points but we're all adults here and can make our own decisions based on the information that's out there. If someone wants to change their oil based on the information you and others post, that's his decision and it's not as if you should be responsible. Ignore bigjay1976 and keep on posting.
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      09-14-2013, 09:43 AM   #12
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I'm of the opinion that people can post whatever they want.... Since I don't have to read it if I don't want to.
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      09-14-2013, 10:59 AM   #13
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If BMW always knows best, and they are always right, then they wouldn't be on the third crankshaft revision for S65, and the rod bearings wouldn't have changed material from 088/089 to 702/703. That alone says they didn't think they got it right if they had to change it.

I realize the bearing change might have been mandated by law, but the crankshaft change wasn't. And if the new bearings really are better than the old, then BMW would have chosen those to begin with instead of changing them after only 12 months of production.

Just my $0.02, and please keep posting BMRLVR.
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      09-14-2013, 11:21 AM   #14
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      09-14-2013, 11:23 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regular guy View Post
If BMW always knows best, and they are always right, then they wouldn't be on the third crankshaft revision for S65, and the rod bearings wouldn't have changed material from 088/089 to 702/703. That alone says they didn't think they got it right if they had to change it.

I realize the bearing change might have been mandated by law, but the crankshaft change wasn't. And if the new bearings really are better than the old, then BMW would have chosen those to begin with instead of changing them after only 12 months of production.

Just my $0.02, and please keep posting BMRLVR.
Hmmm. I was under the impression these parts were the same since 2008. Good to know. Do you know in what month and year they changed these parts. Sorry if this has been discussed before.
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      09-14-2013, 12:22 PM   #16
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crankshaft bearings have been different since 2008/10, but conn rod bearings are still the same...at least that's what realoem.com tells me.
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      09-14-2013, 01:08 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Team Plutonium
Quote:
Originally Posted by CBS View Post
Fully agreed. I too have appreciated reading and learning from them as well.
Keep 'em coming OP.....
I agree with Izzy and Chris, it is nice to have some real engine builders around that know what they are talking about. Most of us just know how to spend money on mods.

I really enjoy reading your posts, I learn a lot, so please keep them coming.

Thanks!
I agree with you guys. Always good to learn more about our engines from an outside source.
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      09-14-2013, 01:11 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GIdriver View Post
Hmmm. I was under the impression these parts were the same since 2008. Good to know. Do you know in what month and year they changed these parts. Sorry if this has been discussed before.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leonardo629 View Post
crankshaft bearings have been different since 2008/10, but conn rod bearings are still the same...at least that's what realoem.com tells me.
We all thought the same thing and many arguments have been fought over this topic. But a few weeks ago, I got to the bottom of it. Realoem removed the old part number from their database, and this is why we all thought the rod bearing part number had not changed.

Here's what I posted in another thread:

Got a lot more information. There have apparently been three different S65 crankshafts, and two sets of connecting rods. Maybe somebody with better BMW connections (hint, hint, Tom@EAS) can fill in the blanks. You will be surprised, I even found +.001 bearings and they are currently available!

BTW, this wasn't easy to track down. Had to look in catalogs out of country, etc. Called local dealer and confirmed they are all valid part numbers, and +size bearings are still available using these part numbers.

Crankshafts:
11 21 7 838 641 Crankshaft, Ended (no date given), no weight given
11 21 7 841 658 Crankshaft, Ended (October 2008), 20.400 kg
11 21 0 443 639 Crankshaft, Current production, 23.840 kg

Main Bearings:
11 21 7 841 488 Main Bearing Top, Yellow, Ended (October 2008)
11 21 7 841 609 Main Bearing Top, Yellow, Replaced 488 bearing
11 21 7 841 489 Main Bearing Top, Green, Ended (October 2008)
11 21 7 841 610 Main Bearing Top, Green, Replaced 489 bearing
11 21 7 841 490 Main Bearing Top, Violet, Ended (October 2008)
11 21 7 841 611 Main Bearing Top, Violet, Replaced 490 bearing
11 21 7 841 483 Main Bearing Bottom, Yellow, Ended (October 2008)
11 21 7 841 605 Main Bearing Bottom, Yellow, Replaced 483 bearing
11 21 7 841 484 Main Bearing Bottom, Green, Ended (October 2008)
11 21 7 841 606 Main Bearing Bottom, Green, Replaced 484 bearing
11 21 7 841 485 Main Bearing Bottom, Violet, Ended (October 2008)
11 21 7 841 607 Main Bearing Bottom, Violet, Replaced 485 bearing

Rod Bearings:
11 24 7 838 089 Rod Bearing Blue, 53.000 mm, +0.000 mm, Ended (no date given, but hints at July '08)
11 24 7 841 703 Rod Bearing Blue, 53.000 mm, +0.000 mm, Replacement for 089 bearing.
11 24 7 838 091 Rod Bearing Blue, 52.750 mm, +0.250 mm, Currently available

11 24 7 838 088 Rod Bearing Red, 53.000 mm, +0.000 mm, Ended (no date given, but hints at July '08)
11 24 7 841 702 Rod Bearing Red, 53.000 mm, +0.000 mm, Replacement for 088 bearing.
11 24 7 838 090 Rod Bearing Red, 52.750 mm, +0.250 mm, Currently available

I have verbal confirmation that some bearings replaced at another SoCal shop have 088/089 stamped on the back. So this would be pretty strong evidence along with information posted by Tom & B767capt that the rod bearings have indeed been superseded since production began. Most likely they were superseded in October 2008 when the crankshaft and main bearings were superseded. I will take pictures when I see these bearings in person.

Since I posted this, I ordered and received samples of each of these rod bearings including the oversized bearings. Yesterday, I measured and photographed all of the rod bearings.

Rod Bearings:
11 24 7 838 089 Blue, 53.000 mm, +0.000 mm, 0.07890" Thick, Ended
11 24 7 841 703 Blue, 53.000 mm, +0.000 mm, 0.07890" Thick, Replacement for 089 bearing
11 24 7 838 091 Blue, 52.750 mm, +0.250 mm, 0.08370" Thick, Currently available

11 24 7 838 088 Red, 53.000 mm, +0.000 mm, 0.07875" Thick, Ended
11 24 7 841 702 Red, 53.000 mm, +0.000 mm, 0.07875" Thick, Replacement for 088 bearing
11 24 7 838 090 Red, 52.750 mm, +0.250 mm, 0.08370" Thick, Currently available

Here's a photo of the old and new bearings side-by-side with part numbers shown. As seen in the photo, the bearing surfaces are quite different.

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      09-14-2013, 01:35 PM   #19
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Please guys, continue your contributions, ideas, facts and opinions are all welcomed!

By they has anyone come across this article from Lang racing? I am on my mobile so there may be a thread already mentioning it. Different engine but a similar problem?

http://<a href="http://www.langracin...ation-kit/</a>

Edit:
The Lang Racing post is a thread of its own. Sorry, please ignore :-)
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      09-14-2013, 01:50 PM   #20
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I too have learnt a ton from you guys. Members like you regular guy and kawasaki are major assets to this forum. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us and please keep posting.
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      09-14-2013, 02:01 PM   #21
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Keep it coming man!
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      09-14-2013, 02:11 PM   #22
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Please continue the contribution and sharing of knowledge.
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