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      09-11-2013, 07:57 PM   #1
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Best Sports Sedan (Non-BMW)

Whats your pick? It can be in the picture or not but what do you think is the best sports sedan and why?
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      09-11-2013, 08:33 PM   #2
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      09-11-2013, 08:53 PM   #3
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Taking luxury out of the picture and just going after a pure sports sedan.. The Mitsubishi Evo is a great value as far as performance goes.
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      09-11-2013, 08:59 PM   #4
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'13 Audi s6.... phenom engine v8TT is nasty!
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      09-11-2013, 09:17 PM   #5
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      09-11-2013, 09:28 PM   #6
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Parents recently got a new S6, pretty amazing car for the money. I also recently test drove an S4 and was quite impressed.
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      09-11-2013, 09:50 PM   #7
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ATS 2.0T. Just spent a week in one (automatic though). Fantastic driving car. Much better than the F30 335i I had the week before (non-sport package) and much better than the F30 320i with a sport package I test drove two weeks ago. The ATS suspension, steering, brakes and seats are spot-on sport sedan. The CUE system is not that good (I'd get it without it anyway) and the lights in the steering wheel don't dim enough for back road nighttime driving. I have the dealer looking for a 2013 the way I'd want it. GM offering good end-of-the-year deals.
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      09-11-2013, 10:30 PM   #8
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C63
I'd have to agree.

Although the new CLA 45, the ATS-V, and M3 haven't come out yet and any of those might be better.

I can't really call anything bigger than that a sports sedan. Are there faster sedans? Of course, but it seems weird to me to call anything that big sporty.
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      09-11-2013, 11:20 PM   #9
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Low End Audi S4 = Great Balance of Value and Performance

Mid End C63 AMG = Just a Monster

High End: 2014 E63 AMG S Model = Total Package
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      09-11-2013, 11:30 PM   #10
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Low End Audi S4 = Great Balance of Value and Performance

Mid End C63 AMG = Just a Monster

High End: 2014 E63 AMG S Model = Total Package
Would you say the S4 competes closest with a 335?
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      09-11-2013, 11:59 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke_Enderle View Post
Would you say the S4 competes closest with a 335?
I think it does but I also think Audi does there model lineup different. They dropped the price of S4 so it wouldn't be in competition with the M3. But its not suppose to be a direct 335i competitor. The sales people at Audi dealerships poise the S4 as an upgrade to the 335i. Hence why it generally will cost more and have more luxury items such as Nappa leather.
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      09-12-2013, 12:48 AM   #12
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Quote:
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Low End Audi S4 = Great Balance of Value and Performance

Mid End C63 AMG = Just a Monster

High End: 2014 E63 AMG S Model = Total Package
Sounds about right
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      09-12-2013, 12:55 AM   #13
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C63 (which already is a tad heavy and big.)


But this is a nice runner up. Just because:


Cheers
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      09-12-2013, 07:36 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buildbright View Post
I think it does but I also think Audi does there model lineup different. They dropped the price of S4 so it wouldn't be in competition with the M3. But its not suppose to be a direct 335i competitor. The sales people at Audi dealerships poise the S4 as an upgrade to the 335i. Hence why it generally will cost more and have more luxury items such as Nappa leather.

Correct me if I'm wrong, (seriously, correct me because I'm not sure lol) but wouldn't a 335xi w/ M-Sport package + DHP be about the same price as an S4? I'd imagine they would be very close in performance as well. Maybe not a direct competitor to the everyday buyer, but to an enthusiast (who I'm guessing is the core buyer for the S4)... Maybe?
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      09-12-2013, 07:49 AM   #15
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After owning my S4 for just about a year, I will say that most of their owners are not really enthusiasts, however if you see a loaded up 335 M Sport it is much more likely to have a true enthusiast behind the wheel. An S4 is an S4 and they all tend to look identical but you have to option into the sportier and more enthusiast oriented M Sport in the 335i. Having had extensive seat time in both cars, I would say that from a driving standpoint I prefer the S4 but appearance and technology I would give to the 335 M Sport. The MMI system in my 2010 S4 is abysmal compared to the iDrive I had in my 2010 135i.
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      09-12-2013, 09:34 AM   #16
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      09-12-2013, 09:52 AM   #17
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      09-12-2013, 11:58 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buildbright
Quote:
Originally Posted by Luke_Enderle View Post
Would you say the S4 competes closest with a 335?
I think it does but I also think Audi does there model lineup different. They dropped the price of S4 so it wouldn't be in competition with the M3. But its not suppose to be a direct 335i competitor. The sales people at Audi dealerships poise the S4 as an upgrade to the 335i. Hence why it generally will cost more and have more luxury items such as Nappa leather.
I'm doubting the sales staff that told you this. The 'S' badge is a textbook example of effective marketing; it leads people to believe that you're buying into a much higher tier of models relative to the competition. Throw in some minor bespoke detailing, like aluminum highlights, bolder fascias, and quad tailpipes and people will think its competing at a higher level than it actually is.

Comparisons by tier are as follows:
Base: A4 vs 328i
Mid/upgraded: S4 vs 335i (M-Sport if you want the frivolous bespoke items)
High/Motorsport: RS4 vs M3 (large replacement of powertrain, drivetrain, body panels, etc)

What BMW lack(ed) in their lineup was a badge that could be marketed effectively against the S brand. In comes their M-XXXi/d "M-performance" lineup.
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      09-12-2013, 12:13 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Year's_End View Post
I'm doubting the sales staff that told you this. The 'S' badge is a textbook example of effective marketing; it leads people to believe that you're buying into a much higher tier of models relative to the competition. Throw in some minor bespoke detailing, like aluminum highlights, bolder fascias, and quad tailpipes and people will think its competing at a higher level than it actually is.

Comparisons by tier are as follows:
Base: A4 vs 328i
Mid/upgraded: S4 vs 335i (M-Sport if you want the frivolous bespoke items)
High/Motorsport: RS4 vs M3 (large replacement of powertrain, drivetrain, body panels, etc)

What BMW lack(ed) in their lineup was a badge that could be marketed effectively against the S brand. In comes their M-XXXi/d "M-performance" lineup.
They could very well have told him that but that doesn't mean it is accurate, especially coming from a member of the sales staff.

I agree with everything written above. In many ways, Audi's methodology has given their real motorsport vehicles some major scarcity value while BMW has thrown the M badge on nearly every vehicle they produce.
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      09-12-2013, 01:37 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Year's_End View Post
I'm doubting the sales staff that told you this. The 'S' badge is a textbook example of effective marketing; it leads people to believe that you're buying into a much higher tier of models relative to the competition. Throw in some minor bespoke detailing, like aluminum highlights, bolder fascias, and quad tailpipes and people will think its competing at a higher level than it actually is.

Comparisons by tier are as follows:
Base: A4 vs 328i
Mid/upgraded: S4 vs 335i (M-Sport if you want the frivolous bespoke items)
High/Motorsport: RS4 vs M3 (large replacement of powertrain, drivetrain, body panels, etc)

What BMW lack(ed) in their lineup was a badge that could be marketed effectively against the S brand. In comes their M-XXXi/d "M-performance" lineup.
This was confirmed by the marketing individuals at Audi of America. But we are getting off topic. Whats your pic for the best sports sedan other than BMW?
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      09-12-2013, 01:44 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ep_83 View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, (seriously, correct me because I'm not sure lol) but wouldn't a 335xi w/ M-Sport package + DHP be about the same price as an S4? I'd imagine they would be very close in performance as well. Maybe not a direct competitor to the everyday buyer, but to an enthusiast (who I'm guessing is the core buyer for the S4)... Maybe?
I am not going to answer this because I do not want to start a XI debate. But I will say no matter what the MSRP is, typically BMWs price will come out lower. This is because of BMWs Volume, Leasing Rates, Incentives, and more Advantageous European Delivery.

What's your favorite non-BMW Sports Sedan?
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      09-12-2013, 01:47 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buildbright
Quote:
Originally Posted by Year's_End View Post
I'm doubting the sales staff that told you this. The 'S' badge is a textbook example of effective marketing; it leads people to believe that you're buying into a much higher tier of models relative to the competition. Throw in some minor bespoke detailing, like aluminum highlights, bolder fascias, and quad tailpipes and people will think its competing at a higher level than it actually is.

Comparisons by tier are as follows:
Base: A4 vs 328i
Mid/upgraded: S4 vs 335i (M-Sport if you want the frivolous bespoke items)
High/Motorsport: RS4 vs M3 (large replacement of powertrain, drivetrain, body panels, etc)

What BMW lack(ed) in their lineup was a badge that could be marketed effectively against the S brand. In comes their M-XXXi/d "M-performance" lineup.
This was confirmed by the marketing individuals at Audi of America. But we are getting off topic. Whats your pic for the best sports sedan other than BMW?
Sure, but they'll say what they need to, and isn't that essentially their job in the marketing segment: to increase brand value and cache? But you're right, I'll end the tangent.

To answer your question, I think I'd have to break it down by category and class size.

For an entry-level, compact/mid-sized sedan, I'd probably go with a C63 if driving pleasure was a priority, or an ATS 2.0T if I wanted something fun and practical. I have a feeling that the upcoming ATS-V will be a complete killer given its great chassis and styling.

For a full-sized sedan, I'd go for a CLS63 for driving pleasure, or an RS6 for all around capability.

I personally have a hard time imaging myself in anything that's not RWD.
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