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      09-06-2013, 11:25 PM   #23
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If there's any roads to hit on the way up, or some really cool places
If you roll in late, watch out for the fog. The combination of drowsiness + fog + deer crossing signs on the last 3rd of the trip was a pretty scary combination, on my last trip out there.

For an inside scoop on good eats, check out this site:
Roadfood.com
It works for any trip, anywhere, really. I wish I could endorse it based on experience, but I usually roll solo to HPDE's and am in too big a rush to get there/back to even try to eat anything nice. One exception - on my way back from Lime Rock, I'll usually stop at Rein's Deli, in CT (right off Route 84). I usually get enough takeout there to last me a couple days!
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      09-06-2013, 11:36 PM   #24
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BTW, I heard they're going to re-surface the track, next year. This seems a little dated (mentions turtles, which have been replaced), but still useful until then:
http://www.gvc-bmwcca.org/_download/The_Whole_Track.pdf

Here's some local info/pointers/etc.
Places to visit in the Watkins Glen area (gvc-bmwcca.org)

And a question for other 6MTer's who've been there - where do you use 3rd gear?
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      09-07-2013, 04:55 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drifty//
Quote:
Originally Posted by klammer View Post
If there's any roads to hit on the way up, or some really cool places
If you roll in late, watch out for the fog. The combination of drowsiness + fog + deer crossing signs on the last 3rd of the trip was a pretty scary combination, on my last trip out there.

For an inside scoop on good eats, check out this site:
Roadfood.com
It works for any trip, anywhere, really. I wish I could endorse it based on experience, but I usually roll solo to HPDE's and am in too big a rush to get there/back to even try to eat anything nice. One exception - on my way back from Lime Rock, I'll usually stop at Rein's Deli, in CT (right off Route 84). I usually get enough takeout there to last me a couple days!
Rein's deli is great!
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      09-07-2013, 08:12 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drifty// View Post
If you roll in late, watch out for the fog. The combination of drowsiness + fog + deer crossing signs on the last 3rd of the trip was a pretty scary combination, on my last trip out there.

For an inside scoop on good eats, check out this site:
Roadfood.com
It works for any trip, anywhere, really. I wish I could endorse it based on experience, but I usually roll solo to HPDE's and am in too big a rush to get there/back to even try to eat anything nice. One exception - on my way back from Lime Rock, I'll usually stop at Rein's Deli, in CT (right off Route 84). I usually get enough takeout there to last me a couple days!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drifty// View Post
BTW, I heard they're going to re-surface the track, next year. This seems a little dated (mentions turtles, which have been replaced), but still useful until then:
http://www.gvc-bmwcca.org/_download/The_Whole_Track.pdf

Here's some local info/pointers/etc.
Places to visit in the Watkins Glen area (gvc-bmwcca.org)

And a question for other 6MTer's who've been there - where do you use 3rd gear?
Thanks so much for the insights. Will definitely check these out, and will be spreading the trip most likely over 2 days to get there, so not too worried about fatigue. Family road trip with the Griswolds, except Wallyworld's mostly for daddy
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      09-07-2013, 09:40 AM   #27
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The Phoenix CMS event? I'll be there, too. Never run with them, before.

If you see an IB E92 w/ grey AP Racing BBK, that's me.
Yup, that's the event we'll be going to. Joe runs a nice tight ship, and there's tons of track time for intermediate and advanced drivers. We've got garage bay 10A (should be a red 911, blue E30 325i chumpcar).

And if you can't find us at the track, it's guaranteed you'll find us at the bar in the Harbor Hotel.
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      09-07-2013, 02:23 PM   #28
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Yup, that's the event we'll be going to. Joe runs a nice tight ship, and there's tons of track time for intermediate and advanced drivers. We've got garage bay 10A (should be a red 911, blue E30 325i chumpcar).

And if you can't find us at the track, it's guaranteed you'll find us at the bar in the Harbor Hotel.
Looking forward to seeing the Chumpcar finally.
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      09-07-2013, 03:08 PM   #29
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Was there with the gvc a couple weeks ago, wish I was going this time, but it's sold out. My instructor recommended me to move to intermediate next time out I might try to make it with the PCA Oct 7-8... only $325 for the two days if I recall. Even thought the track is many different surface types, it's a pretty smooth ride for the most part, the tow of the boot's concrete slab is as rough as it gets. Here's a couple pics:





Look into the bus stop during track walk



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      09-07-2013, 11:43 PM   #30
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wish I was going this time, but it's sold out.
That's why I'm going wth Phoenix CMR. I actually had to print and mail in a physical registration form, which seemed all the more strange due to the fact that I found the event on Motorsportreg (I guess they only use it to advertise...). I kept looking on their website for some sort of online registration or a way to email or fax in the registration. I can't even remember the last time I actually mailed something like that, but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't this millenium.

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I might try to make it with the PCA Oct 7-8...
ORLY? Someone told me they only let you join if you actually have a Porsche, although I was taking my time packing up after one event and people started arriving for a PCA event being held the next day. Among the cars was a 135i. But maybe he also had a boxster or something. Or what I heard is incorrect. Hopefully, someone can clue me in.
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      09-08-2013, 08:39 AM   #31
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Events at the Glen coming up
Suggest, NASA, trackmasters, and Niagara PCA is very open to BMW's and other cars types.

-
09/10/2013
COM Sports Car Club
Mon: Instructional, Tue: Time Trials

Wed & Thu
09/11/2013 09/12/2013
Phoenix, CMR Inc.
Instructional/Non-Competitive

Friday
09/13/2013
Promoter's Test - SCCA
Test & Tune

Sat & Sun
09/14/2013 09/15/2013
SCCA - Finger Lakes Region
Competitive Event

Mon & Tue
09/16/2013 09/17/2013
PCA - Northern NJ Region
Instructional/Non-Competitive

Wed & Thu
09/18/2013 09/19/2013
BMW - Boston Chapter
Instructional/Non-Competitive

Fri - Sun
09/20/2013 09/22/2013
BMW - Genesee Valley Region
Instructional/Non-Competitive

Mon - Thu
09/23/2013 09/26/2013
SRT Track Experience
Instructional - Non-competitive

Fri - Sun
09/27/2013 09/29/2013
NASA Northeast
Fri: Instructional, Sat/Sun: Competitive

Mon & Tue
09/30/2013 10/01/2013
Group 52
Instructional/Non-Competitive

Wed & Thu
10/02/2013 10/03/2013
Trackmaster Inc.
Instructional/Non-Competitive

Fri - Sun
10/04/2013 10/06/2013
SCCA - Glen Region
Competitive Event

Mon & Tue
10/07/2013 10/08/2013
PCA - Niagara Region
Instructional/Non-Competitive

Wed & Thu
10/09/2013 10/10/2013
Hooked on Driving
Instructional/Non-Competitive

Fri - Sun
10/11/2013 10/13/2013
Vintage Racer Group
Competitive Event

Mon & Tue
10/14/2013 10/15/2013
PCA - Connecticut Valley
Instructional/Non-Competitive

Wed & Thu
10/16/2013 10/17/2013
PCA - Hudson Champlain
Instructional/Non-competitive
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      09-08-2013, 09:37 AM   #32
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ill be up there with nasa, couldnt get the other dates to work.
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      09-08-2013, 09:53 AM   #33
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Will be there with NASA in my M3
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      09-08-2013, 11:42 AM   #34
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will be there with NASA (Sunday only)
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      09-08-2013, 02:23 PM   #35
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Personally I hate NASA events as there is very little track time and way to many cars.

Phoenix CMR runs a great event at the Glen, the advanced and intermediate groups get 40 minute sessions, its awesome!!!
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      09-08-2013, 02:29 PM   #36
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Personally I hate NASA events as there is very little track time and way to many cars.

Phoenix CMR runs a great event at the Glen, the advanced and intermediate groups get 40 minute sessions, its awesome!!!
40 minute sessions? I'm normally beat after 30 minute sessions, don't know how I'd feel after 40 minutes on the track going all out in one good.
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      09-08-2013, 02:42 PM   #37
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Glad you're finally getting there, klammer! It's truly an epic track.

Make sure your brake pads are well above half-thickness--the Glen eats brake pads like nobody's business, especially on heavy cars like ours.

Another vote for the Harbor Hotel. Nicest hotel in the area, fairly new, decent restaurant, good/safe parking lot, and they offer a room rate discount for trackday events. It's the place to stay if your family is coming along--your wife would kill you if you took her to the roughing-it-in-the-woods Seneca Lodge.

For other activities, you can drive up along Seneca Lake and have a nice dinner at Belhurst Castle (about 30min away), or check out the Finger Lakes wineries. If your kids are into it, the Corning Museum of Glass is a very cool spot. It's about 30min away to the Southwest, and has a lot of interesting, interactive exhibits, as well as amazing displays of beautiful decorative glass. And if your kids are teenagers, you can always run one lake over to check out the Cornell campus, in case they don't want to do Northwestern or U of Chicago.
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      09-08-2013, 05:52 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by paradocs98
Glad you're finally getting there, klammer! It's truly an epic track.

Make sure your brake pads are well above half-thickness--the Glen eats brake pads like nobody's business, especially on heavy cars like ours.

Another vote for the Harbor Hotel. Nicest hotel in the area, fairly new, decent restaurant, good/safe parking lot, and they offer a room rate discount for trackday events. It's the place to stay if your family is coming along--your wife would kill you if you took her to the roughing-it-in-the-woods Seneca Lodge.

For other activities, you can drive up along Seneca Lake and have a nice dinner at Belhurst Castle (about 30min away), or check out the Finger Lakes wineries. If your kids are into it, the Corning Museum of Glass is a very cool spot. It's about 30min away to the Southwest, and has a lot of interesting, interactive exhibits, as well as amazing displays of beautiful decorative glass. And if your kids are teenagers, you can always run one lake over to check out the Cornell campus, in case they don't want to do Northwestern or U of Chicago.
Once again, your hospitality and insight is greatly appreciated. All your vids and experience definitely promoted me to get out there, amongst the fact that it looks absolutely AWESOME! Thanks again for the insights, my girls are little, 3-6, don't even want to think about school or the $1/2 mill it will probably cost by then
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      09-10-2013, 09:50 PM   #39
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Looks like I am done for the year, enjoy! I really want to go back one more time,


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      09-10-2013, 10:16 PM   #40
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Once again, your hospitality and insight is greatly appreciated. All your vids and experience definitely promoted me to get out there, amongst the fact that it looks absolutely AWESOME! Thanks again for the insights, my girls are little, 3-6, don't even want to think about school or the $1/2 mill it will probably cost by then
Jeez, tell me about it. Sent my 14 year old son to 3 summer camps this past summer and it came out to 10g's.
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      09-11-2013, 05:15 PM   #41
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Just came back from the Glen. What an epic track. I truly enjoyed my time there and the Glen will definitely be part of my 2014 calendar. I ran with COM that is time trial club. Monday and Tuesday morning were practice/setup days with the time trials on Tuessay PM. We had 4 30 minutes sessions on Tuesday and I managed a few laps in the 2:17s despite the trafic with a best of 2:17.6. I am clearly leaving a lot of time on the table (2-3 seconds at least) that I could get by getting more familiar with track. We had heavy rain on Tuesday morning, so no fast laps. I did not stay for the time trials as I figured spending the whole afternoon for only 3-4 laps was not worth it. I will post vids as soon as I get time to download/upload them.

Looking forward to going back next year

Klammer, I am sure you will love it.
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      09-11-2013, 06:04 PM   #42
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Just came back from the Glen. What an epic track. I truly enjoyed my time there and the Glen will definitely be part of my 2014 calendar. I ran with COM that is time trial club. Monday and Tuesday morning were practice/setup days with the time trials on Tuessay PM. We had 4 30 minutes sessions on Tuesday and I managed a few laps in the 2:17s despite the trafic with a best of 2:17.6. I am clearly leaving a lot of time on the table (2-3 seconds at least) that I could get by getting more familiar with track. We had heavy rain on Tuesday morning, so no fast laps. I did not stay for the time trials as I figured spending the whole afternoon for only 3-4 laps was not worth it. I will post vids as soon as I get time to download/upload them.

Looking forward to going back next year

Klammer, I am sure you will love it.
This is not helping loving all the love for the track and please post videos, please!!! Less than two weeks to go and glad to hear the experience was all you'd hope, especially from someone with experience Where'd you stay? Got stuck in Corning as everything was booked in actual Watkins Hope that's not too far and the area looks absolutely beautiful, especially, hopefully, this time of year. Go clock go!!!
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      09-11-2013, 06:09 PM   #43
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Quote:
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Once again, your hospitality and insight is greatly appreciated. All your vids and experience definitely promoted me to get out there, amongst the fact that it looks absolutely AWESOME! Thanks again for the insights, my girls are little, 3-6, don't even want to think about school or the $1/2 mill it will probably cost by then
Jeez, tell me about it. Sent my 14 year old son to 3 summer camps this past summer and it came out to 10g's.
Isn't this shit getting ridiculous!!!! I've had many a philosophical discussions with other dads all over the country/world and we're all pretty freaked out! I mean, damned if we do, damned if we don't, right?!? Retirement is easy until you price in education (#3 on the way) and then you realize you can't retire....EVER... At the estimated price levels in 20 years. Oh well, just grin and bear it I suppose
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      09-11-2013, 08:45 PM   #44
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This is not helping loving all the love for the track and please post videos, please!!! Less than two weeks to go and glad to hear the experience was all you'd hope, especially from someone with experience Where'd you stay? Got stuck in Corning as everything was booked in actual Watkins Hope that's not too far and the area looks absolutely beautiful, especially, hopefully, this time of year. Go clock go!!!
We stayed at the Seneca Lodge. Not the best accommodations, but it is not expensive, the food is decent and the beer is good . I will try something else next time though...

The glen is a very honest track, with the concrete patches giving a good hint at where the line is. It has a lot of banking that needs to be leveraged for quick laps. Here are my observations. Note that I ran the track only 5 sessions in all, so take it with a grain of salt . My recommended shifts are for DCT with a stock rear end; might be different with your 3.45 .

OK, so here goes:

Front straight, start braking slightly past the patch in the asphalt. Brake early because the entire braking is done downhill. Downshift to third. Early and lazy turn-in while trail braking all the way to the apex (this is the only way I could get our heavy car to pivot and still nail the apex). You need to ride the first half of the curb at the apex (ride the flat half, avoid the angled half). Full throttle as soon as you hit the apex, the camber and curbing at the exit will catch you. Shift into 4th.

Slight and short lift going into 2 and then full throttle up the hill (with more guts, might be able to take it flat out, but I have not tried it). Don't turn-in too early to get a good positioning for turn 3, but try to get into the groove as fast as possible to leverage the camber.

Very slight lift during the right-left transition into 3 and then full throttle as soon as the weight transfer is done (again here, pretty sure it can be taken flat out, but I did not have the confidence to do it yet). Late apex 3 to get a good run into 4.

Flat out through 4 and all the way through the back straight. Try to keep the wheels as straight as possible through 4 to avoid scrubbing off valuable speed. Shift into 5th and maybe 6th if you had a good run through the esses. Into the bus stop, brake at or slightly past the 500 mark (can most likely brake much later here), downshift to 4th, turn-in in the first portion of the curbing on the left, trail brake way into the bus stop. Aggressively ride the curbing on the right (the more you ride the curb, the less it upsets the car). Hit the curb on the left. Try to stay on the concrete while arcing through the bus stop and nail the other curb on the left. Avoid hitting the fourth curbing (on the right) and exit all the way to the edge of the track to get a good entry into 5.

Maintenance throttle going into 5. Look far ahead and with throttle steer, aim for the flagger cabin, that is where the apex is hidden. As soon as you see the track out, full throttle and let the car drift to the outer edge of the track. Avoid the outside curb as it upsets the car.

Cross the track to the entry of 6, sharp braking, downshift to 3rd, late and lazy turn-in with some trail braking. The track has a lot of banking here, so it can be taken faster than it seems. Full throttle as soon as you see the track out point. Upshift to 4th.

Cross the track to the entry of 7. You can brake very late (at or after the 200 mark) because the last portion of the braking zone is sharply uphill. Downshift to 3rd. Aim for the centre of the concrete patch. Trail brake all the way into the big concrete patch to get the car to rotate. You want the car pointing in the right direction when you hit the late apex because the uphill angle decreases at track out and the car will understeer. At track out, use the little pavement extension. Upshift to 4th and maybe 5th if you got 7 right.

From here to the front straight is the section in which I think I left the most time on the table

Brake late into 8, with a sharp turn-in to get into the groove. Use the concrete patch as a guide. Downshift to 3rd. You need to get very close to the apex to leverage the banking (I struggled with that because the inside curb is as sharp as a sidewalk curb). The track opens up more than expected, so way more speed can be carried into the turn. Upshift to 4th for the last short burst up the hill.

Sharp braking and downshift to 3rd into 9. You really need to throw the car into 9 with some trail braking because the turn-in is uphill and then the angle tapers off; the car starts to understeer. Don't trail brake too deep because the back end will get wiggly. Aim for the middle of the concrete patch and then throttle steer the car towards the apex. Use the pavement extension at track out. Upshift to 4th.

I always over-braked going into 10. Use the little pavement extention on the right side on the track to get a better turn-in (sort of like a mini Norvegian flick). Again here, the track opens up more than expected. The track out is difficult to judge because the curbing is blacked out from rubber marks. Flat out to 11.

Slight braking into 11 (again here, I always over-braked). Sharp turn-in with trail braking to leverage the banking and full throttle at the apex to drift-out as close to the wall as your guts can handle. Upshift to 4th and 5th on the front straight.

Hope this helps .

Maybe others can chime-in to add their 2 cents.

Last edited by CanAutM3; 09-12-2013 at 10:00 AM.
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