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      08-29-2013, 09:52 AM   #1
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Struggling to make a case for anything other than an M3?

Chaps,

I don't particularly consider myself wedded to BMW or to any car brand for that matter. I currently drive a 2008 E92 M3 that has served me beautifully, but I am considering something new. However, based on my requirements and loose preferences, I am struggling to find any other car that would fit my needs better than either the upcoming M4 or M3

Requirements

1) Daily driver and only transport
2) Decent trunk for golf clubs, guitar stuff, etc.
3) 4 usable seats for friends, family, stuff, etc

Preferences

1) 6 mt but may not need to twist my arm too much given the beauty of the new DCTs
2) 400+ HP not super strict but given the weights these days, 400+ HP seems like a must
3) Good steering
4) RWD
5) Aesthetically pleasing interior with high technology
6) 2 doors, but I am increasingly appreciating the practicality of 4 seats
7) understated aggressive styling

Some cars that come to mind: GTR, Jaguar F coupe, C63, etc.

Thoughts?
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      08-29-2013, 10:04 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajvee View Post
Chaps,

I don't particularly consider myself wedded to BMW or to any car brand for that matter. I currently drive a 2008 E92 M3 that has served me beautifully, but I am considering something new. However, based on my requirements and loose preferences, I am struggling to find any other car that would fit my needs better than either the upcoming M4 or M3

Requirements

1) Daily driver and only transport
2) Decent trunk for golf clubs, guitar stuff, etc.
3) 4 usable seats for friends, family, stuff, etc

Preferences

1) 6 mt but may not need to twist my arm too much given the beauty of the new DCTs
2) 400+ HP not super strict but given the weights these days, 400+ HP seems like a must
3) Good steering
4) RWD
5) Aesthetically pleasing interior with high technology
6) 2 doors, but I am increasingly appreciating the practicality of 4 seats
7) understated aggressive styling

Some cars that come to mind: GTR, Jaguar F coupe, C63, etc.

Thoughts?
per#4 GTR is AWD which you already know but the back seat might as well be non-existent which also screws you on #3

Jaguar is a no. I don't care what any one tells you its a piece of junk and has terrible Depreciation

I'd pick the C63 if you need to fill the want list.
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      08-29-2013, 10:14 AM   #3
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I strongly considered the IS-F as well before I went to the M3. Has most of what you're looking for except for 6MT.
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      08-29-2013, 10:34 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by nullrouted View Post
I strongly considered the IS-F as well before I went to the M3. Has most of what you're looking for except for 6MT.
Don't you agree that even the ISF just seems like a compromise? Choice would be just so it can be different than the M3 rather than better. Although, I have heard great things about Lexus reliability and service.
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      08-29-2013, 10:34 AM   #5
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You didn't mention anything about handling or price but I assume those are important too. Sounds like you'll be in the market for an F80/82.
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      08-29-2013, 10:39 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nati Beastcat View Post
per#4 GTR is AWD which you already know but the back seat might as well be non-existent which also screws you on #3

Jaguar is a no. I don't care what any one tells you its a piece of junk and has terrible Depreciation

I'd pick the C63 if you need to fill the want list.
I think that is short sighted to simply write the jag off, its a nice car and drives very well (have actually driven one)

that said, it has no back seats so......

id recommend considering a GTR and a c63. easiest way to know for sure is drive them. you will know if its worth it or not then.

im also a big 911 fan, so those are worth considering as well....
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      08-29-2013, 10:46 AM   #7
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I'd say it's either the C63 or the M3 from what I read. can't go wrong with either.
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      08-29-2013, 11:09 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KennyPowers View Post
I think that is short sighted to simply write the jag off, its a nice car and drives very well (have actually driven one)

that said, it has no back seats so......

id recommend considering a GTR and a c63. easiest way to know for sure is drive them. you will know if its worth it or not then.

im also a big 911 fan, so those are worth considering as well....
I personally would never buy one. A quick drive is one thing, but ownership day in and out is different. I would take any of the other cars listed before taking the Jag. Actually I'd takes cars not on the list before the Jag. Rather see a CTSV on the list before the Jag.

My moms business partner had one and it drove nice but it was terrible on maintenance. Another guy I know had a 2012 and it caught fire so he moved on to an F10 M5
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      08-29-2013, 11:18 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nati Beastcat View Post
I personally would never buy one. A quick drive is one thing, but ownership day in and out is different. I would take any of the other cars listed before taking the Jag. Actually I'd takes cars not on the list before the Jag. Rather see a CTSV on the list before the Jag.

My moms business partner had one and it drove nice but it was terrible on maintenance. Another guy I know had a 2012 and it caught fire so he moved on to an F10 M5
I understand your perspective

but the F type is brand new and has barely been out for a couple weeks

from all reports, and from what I have seen looking at it next to the prior generation cars like the xk, the driving experience and quality is vastly improved.

how will it stand the test of time? who knows...its not my type of "sports car" anyway, I prefer something more dynamic and raw.

my point was that it shouldn't be dismissed outright without driving it and looking closely
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      08-29-2013, 11:39 AM   #10
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      08-29-2013, 11:41 AM   #11
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Honestly, the M3 isn't all that to begin with. If I were to do it all over again, I wouldn't get an M3. I like more streetable power and with the M3's powerband, it leaves a lot to be desired. A GTR would be nice for you but with the real lack of ability to carry passengers, I don't see it as a viable option for you. I'd definitely consider something like a CTS-V. Great power, looks, fits people comfortably, easily modded, cheaper to fix/work on.
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      08-29-2013, 11:53 AM   #12
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CTS-V or C63 AMG. Both are offered as coupes or sedans.
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      08-29-2013, 01:56 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Team Plutonium View Post
911 has four seats, perfect if your friends a midgets. But may I also suggest the Panamera GTS... despite its size it is very nimble, corners like a champ, awesome NA motor, and fantastic soundtrack.
All awesome but just a tad too big for me
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      08-29-2013, 01:58 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by THE TECH View Post
Honestly, the M3 isn't all that to begin with. If I were to do it all over again, I wouldn't get an M3. I like more streetable power and with the M3's powerband, it leaves a lot to be desired. A GTR would be nice for you but with the real lack of ability to carry passengers, I don't see it as a viable option for you. I'd definitely consider something like a CTS-V. Great power, looks, fits people comfortably, easily modded, cheaper to fix/work on.
Isn't the CTS-V significantly bigger than the M3? I like the 3 seriesish size
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      08-29-2013, 03:39 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajvee View Post
Chaps,

I don't particularly consider myself wedded to BMW or to any car brand for that matter. I currently drive a 2008 E92 M3 that has served me beautifully, but I am considering something new. However, based on my requirements and loose preferences, I am struggling to find any other car that would fit my needs better than either the upcoming M4 or M3

Requirements

1) Daily driver and only transport
2) Decent trunk for golf clubs, guitar stuff, etc.
3) 4 usable seats for friends, family, stuff, etc

Preferences

1) 6 mt but may not need to twist my arm too much given the beauty of the new DCTs
2) 400+ HP not super strict but given the weights these days, 400+ HP seems like a must
3) Good steering
4) RWD
5) Aesthetically pleasing interior with high technology
6) 2 doors, but I am increasingly appreciating the practicality of 4 seats
7) understated aggressive styling

Some cars that come to mind: GTR, Jaguar F coupe, C63, etc.

Thoughts?
Audi S4/S6 are viable alternatives. Yes they will understeer and the driving experience won't set your hair on fire the way a C63 or M3 on full boil will. M5 should also be on your list if you can swing a GTR.
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      08-29-2013, 04:47 PM   #16
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      08-29-2013, 11:54 PM   #17
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The S6 is interesting but good luck getting a drive in one.
I know, right? Audi imports a pitifully small number of these cars. It's ridiculous. And good luck getting any kind of a deal.

Quote:
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I pulled up in my GT-R and was wanted to drive a S6 as I once contemplated moving into a more family-friendly car. Audi dealer would not shut up about how "exclusive" the S6 is and would not let me test drive. And frankly, I was shocked at how cramped the rear seat is in that car...the S4 nearly has as much space.
Sucks the way the dealer treated you but again I put more of the blame on Audi of America. Most dealers get one or two of these cars a year, if that. So they don't want the miles and the abuse on them. That said, the S6 is no R8 GT and is a direct competitor to the 2014 550i/550i xdrive. In contrast, BMW imports a lot of those and they are relatively easy to get test drives in.

And agree that S4 is actually a lot of fun. It's a great 8/10ths car. As far as rear seats, I thought the back seat of the S6/A6 was liveable whereas - at 6'3" - I felt like an egg in an egg carton in the back of the S4. The roof and back of the front seats are cupped out just enough for you to fit but don't try moving around much.
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      08-30-2013, 03:24 AM   #18
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your requirements interestingly resemble those of mine so closely

1. mainly transport, but want something special and want one car that will be for transport, travel, autocross, and track
2. absolutely need my golf clubs and couple of my friends', absolutely need to fit my guitars as I play/carry around every week
3. fit people, family and friends for sure because I love to travel by car, I need room to accommodate that

I ended up with a E90 6MT and have been so happy to own/drive,
but for your case, let me share some of my thoughts


When I was shopping, I test drove several cars around that price/performance/class.

C63
great power, amazing sound. But was out of choice in the beginning because one of my requirement was 6MT. 7-AT on C63 was so boring. After driving my friend's C63 sedan several times, I was bored of just straight line speed. Plus, i don't know what his driving habit was like, but he kept changing tire every 4 months (he DDed his car, never tracked)

S4
Probably recommend you if you want something other than M3. I test drove 2012
and recently went to see the 2013 (facelifted), I like it. It's got enough room and trunk space, I like the 6MT shifter feel (actually like it better then the M3 one), I like the responsiveness of 3.0T, and can easily track it if I needed to.
Good gas mileage is big +, quattro is big + in NJ/NY area.
Car was not special enough than the M3, physically and emotionally.
Yet the S4 was probably my no.2 candidate before I ended up with the E90.

S5
similar to S4, but like me who loves sedan, S4 beats S5 (although S5 looks amazing)
One thing I want to point out was the HUGE S4/S5 seats Audi offer to US models. Jesus they are huge and take up so much space. They are not even comfortable than the M3 ones.

GTR
out of your equation. Trunk space is tight, I wonder if it will even fit a acoustic guitar hard case. Interior quality? 0

IS-F
'm sure it runs good with the yamaha tuned V8, but having IS250 as a family DD car, IS-F is just so similar to IS250 to my eyes. 8-AT is disappointment to today's standard. It was a good try by Lexus, and am sure the second gen IS-F will be amazingly good and totally different from the "mild" first gen IS-F.

CTS-V
never test drove one, never was interested, but I am recently very interested in GM's quality and development. I am even amazed by driving the most recent Chevy Malibu. Their quality has definitely been enhanced. With a solid powertrain, CTS-V sounds pretty interesting. 6MT + RWD fits your requirement.

Final: If I was in the same situation, I would look at some nicely maintained CPO E90 6MT sedan. Also, I would testdrive the S4 6MT. Whynot CTS-V.
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      08-30-2013, 06:13 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaehshim
your requirements interestingly resemble those of mine so closely

1. mainly transport, but want something special and want one car that will be for transport, travel, autocross, and track
2. absolutely need my golf clubs and couple of my friends', absolutely need to fit my guitars as I play/carry around every week
3. fit people, family and friends for sure because I love to travel by car, I need room to accommodate that

I ended up with a E90 6MT and have been so happy to own/drive,
but for your case, let me share some of my thoughts


When I was shopping, I test drove several cars around that price/performance/class.

C63
great power, amazing sound. But was out of choice in the beginning because one of my requirement was 6MT. 7-AT on C63 was so boring. After driving my friend's C63 sedan several times, I was bored of just straight line speed. Plus, i don't know what his driving habit was like, but he kept changing tire every 4 months (he DDed his car, never tracked)

S4
Probably recommend you if you want something other than M3. I test drove 2012
and recently went to see the 2013 (facelifted), I like it. It's got enough room and trunk space, I like the 6MT shifter feel (actually like it better then the M3 one), I like the responsiveness of 3.0T, and can easily track it if I needed to.
Good gas mileage is big +, quattro is big + in NJ/NY area.
Car was not special enough than the M3, physically and emotionally.
Yet the S4 was probably my no.2 candidate before I ended up with the E90.

S5
similar to S4, but like me who loves sedan, S4 beats S5 (although S5 looks amazing)
One thing I want to point out was the HUGE S4/S5 seats Audi offer to US models. Jesus they are huge and take up so much space. They are not even comfortable than the M3 ones.

GTR
out of your equation. Trunk space is tight, I wonder if it will even fit a acoustic guitar hard case. Interior quality? 0

IS-F
'm sure it runs good with the yamaha tuned V8, but having IS250 as a family DD car, IS-F is just so similar to IS250 to my eyes. 8-AT is disappointment to today's standard. It was a good try by Lexus, and am sure the second gen IS-F will be amazingly good and totally different from the "mild" first gen IS-F.

CTS-V
never test drove one, never was interested, but I am recently very interested in GM's quality and development. I am even amazed by driving the most recent Chevy Malibu. Their quality has definitely been enhanced. With a solid powertrain, CTS-V sounds pretty interesting. 6MT + RWD fits your requirement.

Final: If I was in the same situation, I would look at some nicely maintained CPO E90 6MT sedan. Also, I would testdrive the S4 6MT. Whynot CTS-V.
Great response! I went to umich as well btw!

I think the same time next year, I will test drive these cars and make a decision. It has also been a dream to do Ed and from what I hear, BMW offers the best Ed experience.
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      08-30-2013, 07:08 AM   #20
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I was in a similar situation and below is a post I made regarding Audi RS5 I drove:

"I too went to look at RS5 the other day but I came away underwhelmed. I currently have 03 A4 and I just got rid of E92 M3 which I drove for nearly four years. Since I'm a car guy I thought I'll get RS5 while I wait for LCI updated M4.

I do agree that RS5 looks awesome and sounds awesome as well. I test drove a fully loaded model. That's were pros end for me. Interior is ok, nothing special, dashboard is right out of A5 the only things RS5 adds to distinguish it form A5 is a steering wheel (very nice) and shifter. Materials used for dashboard felt very cheap especially hard plastic in front of the passenger. My old Audi has higher quality materials inside it for instance. The back seats are also useless, once I set my seat for comfort (I'm 6' 2") I couldn't fit anybody back there. Front seats are also not as good as M3's, no adjustable side bolsters and they felt pretty hard for such an expensive car. Audi's DCT was also disappointing, there was a delay between paddle shifter input and gear change and I constantly would pull turn signal/wiper/hi-beam stalks instead of paddles...this was annoying. Engine, while awesome sounding doesn't have the urgency S65 has. Last, throttle response wasn't there either. This car was worth about $55K to me and not $80K they want for it.

After I was done with RS5 I immediately put a deposit down on a new M4."


I'm sure there are nicer cars than M3/M4 but at this price point it's hard to find a better machine.
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      08-30-2013, 08:28 AM   #21
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I'm sure there are nicer cars than M3/M4 but at this price point it's hard to find a better machine.
I agree on some of the dynamic comments about the rs5 (we have both m3 and rs5) but the rs5 pulls just as hard if not harder than the DCT m3. I do like the more aggressive dct gearbox, but the audi box is smoother so some may prefer that.

I think the steering feel is good on the audi as well, but the bmw feels smaller and more nimble, and more natural for me to drive fast.

that said, I think the audi tech is better and the interior is nicer. I don't think the m3 seats are anything to write home about either. both cars are excellent, just different. for me, I like a more raw and aggressive driving experience, so I am partial to the m3.

I also have owned a dct and mt m3, and IMO the dct is a much better fit for this engine and car. I wouldn't consider a 6mt m3 personally, the DCT is at least worth a drive. Id get a 6mt e46 over a 6mt e9x.
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      08-30-2013, 06:07 PM   #22
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sounds like you're trying to fix something that isn't broken
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