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      08-27-2013, 05:09 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Da Hapa View Post
First, I'm really sorry to read this. Nobody should have to endure that experience.

Second, I think a follow up phone call to the police, especially if you have the officer's names, etc. can't hurt. I'm not an attorney and can't begin to give you legal advice but I would think that's where you should start.

Third, I mean no disrespect to anyone here but... I think you're getting some bad advice here mixed with some good advice. Self defense is always a good idea and I would never tell anyone to not pursue training. But it isn't an end all/be all solution. There's always going to be someone bigger, someone stronger, someone faster, or someone who is hgh on meth and no matter what you do, won't go down. Your best course of action and advice that every good martial artist I've ever met shared, is to avoid a fight if at all possible. Training will help if you get to that point, but good training helps you never get there. That being said, the martial arts are excellent for your body, your mind, and your general well being so there's no downside (other than time and $) to pursuing an art. Just don't expect a few hours a week of training to turn you into the crap you see on the movies.

I don't advise you to begin carrying a concealed weapon (unless you have a permit in CA... good luck with that). The chances of you experiencing this ever again in your life are very, very small unless you go looking for trouble. Unless you really know what you're doing with a knife or gun, you're likely to end up in more trouble than it's worth and I personally think (again no offense intended) that a lot of people who carry end up with a false sense of security and/or bravado.

Ask yourself this, had you pulled a knife would that have stopped your attackers? If not, would your killing one or both of them feel ok with you vs. feeling the aches and pain you feel today? Only you can answer those questions. I firmly believe you have the right, and should, protect yourself and your loved ones and there are times when a gun or knife might be called for. Is this one? Only you can answer that.

Finally, I hope you feel better soon and find some resolution.
+1... I pretty much guarantee if you had a gun on you, you probably arent writing this today. Sounds like you just would have gotten your ass beat and then pistol whipped and shot with your own gun. All of the above are no fun... hopefully next time you just give em a slice of pizza and call it a night. And even if you had a gun and shot and killed both of them... hopefully you realize that the judicial process is crap and rarely works for your benefit.
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      08-27-2013, 05:16 PM   #24
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Pigs just didnt want to get their asses beaten by John Coffey (R.I.P.) from The Green Mile either
There, fixed that
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      08-27-2013, 05:45 PM   #25
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There, fixed that
Agreed good fix. Haha
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      08-28-2013, 12:43 AM   #26
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I've seen it over and over, cops don't want to fill out a report because they don't want to deal with it. I work at a psych hospital, cops bring patients in, and just dump them at our door step "have fun with this guy".

OP, I would have said "that's nice, now take out your pen and start writing". If he doesn't want to do it, call his superior, and file a complaint with the city.

Sorry to hear about your ordeal.
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      08-28-2013, 02:36 AM   #27
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Sorry to hear this. We were just in the Gaslamp celebrating my impending wedding with friends.

I would call and get the police report. I'm a civil attorney in San Diego and you can definitely sue them in civil court. It doesn't sound like your damages are significant, but it would be the next best thing to pressing criminal charges against them. (Could also do both, of course.)

SDPD really sounds like they dropped the ball.
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      08-28-2013, 10:54 AM   #28
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Your best course of action and advice that every good martial artist I've ever met shared, is to avoid a fight if at all possible.
This. If you can go your whole life without getting punched in the face or throwing a punch at someone's face, you win. Brains over brawn. Chicks dig that anyway. I think avoiding a fight even if you and everyone around you knows you can end the guy in front of you is one of the most badass things you can do. It also shows that your ego is in check and you are in fact, NOT a caveman.
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      08-28-2013, 11:08 AM   #29
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the cops just didnt want to write up any reports... you should def press charges. that is major BS! no one should be subjected to a beating for no reason. and btw, those guys probably just got let go in the morning... is that punishment enough? hell to the no! fight that!
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      08-28-2013, 11:18 AM   #30
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I agree with the "lazy cops who did not want to do the paperwork" assessment. On the other hand, the cops have probably seen this all the way through before. You finally get your day in court, your name and address is publicized to the guys who beat you up, and the court convicts the guys but lets them go with a fine or orders them jailed briefly and the overcrowded jail lets them go. The guys then get their friends to beat you up again without any witnesses or trash your car.

Self defense class won't hurt anyone. Might help you make enough space to get away. But I disagree that the average guy who takes a self defense class a couple of nights a week for a year is going to easily disable two street fighters. You have to be in a few street fights before you understand.
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      08-28-2013, 11:36 AM   #31
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What happened to you sucks and should have never happened. This is a typical case of bullying, and while it doesn't happen to adults all that often it's a daily occurrence for kids. You were a victim, but as far as victims of random violence are concerned you got off light. I know people who fared much worse than you!

Anyone who honestly thinks concealed carry would've been a good idea in this case is out of their mind. If you're the kind of person who'd sleep soundly knowing that you killed a person just because they were drunk and stole a slice of pizza from you, you shouldn't be allowed to own a gun. Nevermind what would happen if you missed your target and hit innocent bystander.

Krav Maga (and other self defense classes) is a good idea for your own personal well being, but I doubt it would've helped in this case. IMO, The main thing self defense training would give you in your situation is confidence and awareness, which might've been enough to deter the attack. But if there are 2 of them and they're twice your size, you're screwed unless you strike first. And if you strike first, what's to say they won't pull a weapon.

As for pressing charges, the cops actually gave you sound advice even if was selfish on their part. Pressing charges will just result in lots of paperwork, you'll spend time giving statements and attend the trials. At the end these guys will get one more misdemeanor on their long record and you would've wasted hours or days of your time. More likely the case would be dismissed anyway...if every case of 2 guys getting into a fight on a Saturday night went to court, the system would have a 10 year backlog.
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      08-28-2013, 12:12 PM   #32
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Krav Maga is a good self defense system. I am a green belt in it, and I couple it with boxing and israeili jiu jitsu (made by my sensei and his, and currently taught to the Israeli defense force). I dont care how big the guy or guys are, they will not stand a chance. unless they are heavily trained.
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      09-03-2013, 10:24 AM   #33
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Sorry to hear about this situation. I second cops were purely being lazy and didn't want to do the paperwork.

2 years ago I was hit by drunk driver after going out to a bar in Hollywood and had to follow him while he tried to speed away. I was on the phone with the police as I followed him. After about 2 miles he got out of the car and walked. Police told me not to follow him but I did until the cops showed up. After the whole situation, the cops told me if I wanted to press charges, they would need to give me a sobriety check. Being that I had drink I choose not to file charges and had my insurance deal with it.

Concealed weapons don't always help because I experienced that too. We were out numbered and my friend pulled his gun. Well one of the other guys had a gun too and pulled his gun and shot my best friend. I spent the nite in jail while detectives question me and 3 friends. Bad experienced but taught me valuable lesson. Best thing you can do is fight back or run. Having weapons can sometimes bring more harm then good even if you are protecting yourself.

If you have the time press charges.
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      09-03-2013, 12:13 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Da Hapa View Post
First, I'm really sorry to read this. Nobody should have to endure that experience.

Second, I think a follow up phone call to the police, especially if you have the officer's names, etc. can't hurt. I'm not an attorney and can't begin to give you legal advice but I would think that's where you should start.

Third, I mean no disrespect to anyone here but... I think you're getting some bad advice here mixed with some good advice. Self defense is always a good idea and I would never tell anyone to not pursue training. But it isn't an end all/be all solution. There's always going to be someone bigger, someone stronger, someone faster, or someone who is hgh on meth and no matter what you do, won't go down. Your best course of action and advice that every good martial artist I've ever met shared, is to avoid a fight if at all possible. Training will help if you get to that point, but good training helps you never get there. That being said, the martial arts are excellent for your body, your mind, and your general well being so there's no downside (other than time and $) to pursuing an art. Just don't expect a few hours a week of training to turn you into the crap you see on the movies.

I don't advise you to begin carrying a concealed weapon (unless you have a permit in CA... good luck with that). The chances of you experiencing this ever again in your life are very, very small unless you go looking for trouble. Unless you really know what you're doing with a knife or gun, you're likely to end up in more trouble than it's worth and I personally think (again no offense intended) that a lot of people who carry end up with a false sense of security and/or bravado.

Ask yourself this, had you pulled a knife would that have stopped your attackers? If not, would your killing one or both of them feel ok with you vs. feeling the aches and pain you feel today? Only you can answer those questions. I firmly believe you have the right, and should, protect yourself and your loved ones and there are times when a gun or knife might be called for. Is this one? Only you can answer that.

Finally, I hope you feel better soon and find some resolution.
Well said but I still think a CC permit is the way to go. I dont know how many times I went into a grocery store in Oregon and saw folks move their jacket in such a way you saw they were carrying. I was like good for these folks and screw California for not letting citizens carry.

OP sorry that happened to you but a good word of advice that they taught us in the military and LE schools is to always always be aware of your surroundings and know how to exit. Know your run routes and where to go, know the area and safe places. We are taught this. Put some angles between you and your pursuers. You have too. Don't let someone beat on you. Fight back. Use a brick or a board or something. You will not get in trouble and will not get sued. They struck first. You have rights.
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      09-03-2013, 12:23 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by alynM3 View Post
+1... I pretty much guarantee if you had a gun on you, you probably arent writing this today. Sounds like you just would have gotten your ass beat and then pistol whipped and shot with your own gun. All of the above are no fun... hopefully next time you just give em a slice of pizza and call it a night. And even if you had a gun and shot and killed both of them... hopefully you realize that the judicial process is crap and rarely works for your benefit.
Actually incorrect. Officer stance with an observed firearm would have stopped this from even happening.

Most thugs/folks see an armed person, guess what happens in the real world? They move to the next target. Trust me, seen it happen.

Ask yourself this question. If you saw a law abiding citizen at Albertos with a sawed off shotgun or Desert Eagle .50 AE on his person, are you going to sit there and tell me you would pick a fight with him/her just because you are hungry and have no money? No you wouldn't.

I remember I was up at a gun shop in Puyallup Washington a couple years ago and a young man was walking downtown heading to the gun shop with a Benelli M4 on his back. Police came and went and passed him. No thug would have approached him to steal money or food.

He has rights.
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      09-03-2013, 01:14 PM   #36
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Actually incorrect. Officer stance with an observed firearm would have stopped this from even happening.

Most thugs/folks see an armed person, guess what happens in the real world? They move to the next target. Trust me, seen it happen.

Ask yourself this question. If you saw a law abiding citizen at Albertos with a sawed off shotgun or Desert Eagle .50 AE on his person, are you going to sit there and tell me you would pick a fight with him/her just because you are hungry and have no money? No you wouldn't.

I remember I was up at a gun shop in Puyallup Washington a couple years ago and a young man was walking downtown heading to the gun shop with a Benelli M4 on his back. Police came and went and passed him. No thug would have approached him to steal money or food.

He has rights.
Absolutely right.

And to the other posters above who ask how I could sleep if I shot the assailants instead of getting beat up? Answer for you: Like a baby. Know why? Because if I draw on them and assume officer stance as above -- and they keep advancing, they are asking for it. The outcome would be that not only did they not attack me, they aren't around to attack anyone else in the future either. I'm not sure about CA laws in that situation, sounds like the democrats have ruined CA through and through at this point. However in SYG states like FL here, there would be no court process, you would be going home immediately after. Just look at the Trayvon/Zimmerman case -- they -correctly- released Zimmerman because they had evidence that he was not the aggressor. The only reason he was ever arrested and tried is because the 'court of public opinion' and blowhards like Al Sharpton (and most of the liberal-dominated media) wanted to lynch a white guy. I'm SO glad that they failed, and because of it, our laws down here stand as they always have.
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      09-03-2013, 01:25 PM   #37
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Absolutely right.

And to the other posters above who ask how I could sleep if I shot the assailants instead of getting beat up? Answer for you: Like a baby. Know why? Because if I draw on them and assume officer stance as above -- and they keep advancing, they are asking for it. The outcome would be that not only did they not attack me, they aren't around to attack anyone else in the future either. I'm not sure about CA laws in that situation, sounds like the democrats have ruined CA through and through at this point. However in SYG states like FL here, there would be no court process, you would be going home immediately after. Just look at the Trayvon/Zimmerman case -- they -correctly- released Zimmerman because they had evidence that he was not the aggressor. The only reason he was ever arrested and tried is because the 'court of public opinion' and blowhards like Al Sharpton (and most of the liberal-dominated media) wanted to lynch a white guy. I'm SO glad that they failed, and because of it, our laws down here stand as they always have.
I agree with you.

California is pretty bad with their gun laws. Most free states have concealed carry, thus a lot less thugging but more stealing of controlled medications. lol Go figure. You can't win. lol
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      09-03-2013, 01:42 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Endless619 View Post
Actually incorrect. Officer stance with an observed firearm would have stopped this from even happening.

Most thugs/folks see an armed person, guess what happens in the real world? They move to the next target. Trust me, seen it happen.

Ask yourself this question. If you saw a law abiding citizen at Albertos with a sawed off shotgun or Desert Eagle .50 AE on his person, are you going to sit there and tell me you would pick a fight with him/her just because you are hungry and have no money? No you wouldn't.

I remember I was up at a gun shop in Puyallup Washington a couple years ago and a young man was walking downtown heading to the gun shop with a Benelli M4 on his back. Police came and went and passed him. No thug would have approached him to steal money or food.

He has rights.
I agree with you but coming out of a bar or club, doesn't exactly pan out that way. Some thugs will do what you say or if there holding too they could also pull on you also. I witnessed it first hand so don't think because you have gun. That the others will flee. I used to think the same thing until it happen to me.
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      09-03-2013, 01:53 PM   #39
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I agree with you but coming out of a bar or club, doesn't exactly pan out that way. Some thugs will do what you say or if there holding too they could also pull on you also. I witnessed it first hand so don't think because you have gun. That the others will flee. I used to think the same thing until it happen to me.
I agree with you -- you can't assume they will flee. Given FL's laws on the matter, 'drawing' is essentially the same as 'firing' in the legal sense. To clarify that, the law states that if you are legally allowed to draw in the first place, you are also allowed to fire -- there is no 'draw-only' situation that is legal, yet restricts firing, although you can choose not to at your discretion of course.

That said, in nearly all situations where you will draw your firearm, you will immediately begin engaging your targets, reducing or eliminating the chance of any retaliation from them, armed or not. I also agree with some of the above posters in regard to training -- just carrying a weapon isn't enough, far from it. Without proper training, you really might end up dead or just getting pistol whipped with your own firearm. Carrying one is a serious responsibility, not something to be taken lightly as just another 'security measure.'
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      09-03-2013, 04:00 PM   #40
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I agree with you but coming out of a bar or club, doesn't exactly pan out that way. Some thugs will do what you say or if there holding too they could also pull on you also. I witnessed it first hand so don't think because you have gun. That the others will flee. I used to think the same thing until it happen to me.
Regardless, the two guns I just stated are controlled in the state of California so your average thug will not have a $2000 pistol or an NFA shotgun with them right? Your serious thugs, of course...

Most average/street thugs have 380s or 9mm or even a 45. If they see you have either of these, trust me they will walk. I was the guy that walked in my situation. You can have any hand gun in the world, as soon as I see a shotgun and hear it cycled the bet is off, I am out of there.

I do see what you are saying and it happens, you're right but smarter folks that are level headed will understand once they see that shotgun.

So this brings me back to what I stated earlier. Know your surroundings, know your escape routes and know what you can and cannot deal with as far as fist fighting goes.

Last edited by Endless619; 09-03-2013 at 04:13 PM.
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      09-03-2013, 04:23 PM   #41
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Well said but I still think a CC permit is the way to go.
Just FYI - getting a CC permit in California (where the OP lives) is all but impossible for a normal, private citizen.
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      09-03-2013, 04:27 PM   #42
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Actually incorrect. Officer stance with an observed firearm would have stopped this from even happening.
At the risk of seeming argumentative, which I'm not trying to do, maybe and maybe not. A sober, rationale person would likely respond to this. A guy hopped up on meth, maybe, maybe not. Drugs (including alcohol) affect folks by their very nature and can lead to irrationale, unpredictable and wild behaviour that don't respond to common sense or reason.
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      09-03-2013, 07:31 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Endless619 View Post
Regardless, the two guns I just stated are controlled in the state of California so your average thug will not have a $2000 pistol or an NFA shotgun with them right? Your serious thugs, of course...

Most average/street thugs have 380s or 9mm or even a 45. If they see you have either of these, trust me they will walk. I was the guy that walked in my situation. You can have any hand gun in the world, as soon as I see a shotgun and hear it cycled the bet is off, I am out of there.

I do see what you are saying and it happens, you're right but smarter folks that are level headed will understand once they see that shotgun.

So this brings me back to what I stated earlier. Know your surroundings, know your escape routes and know what you can and cannot deal with as far as fist fighting goes.
True, but I'm speaking on the op situation. Clubs or bars in California, your average thug will have exactly what you said. Your right, that if they did see a shotgun they would turn the other way, but it hardly happens in California coming out of clubs and bars. Plus when have you heard a guy getting shot with a shotgun coming out of club or bar. I do see your point but that rarely happens in California.
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      09-03-2013, 07:48 PM   #44
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