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      10-28-2013, 02:50 PM   #67
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I'll be replacing my E90 M3 next year and the Macan, M235i and F80 M3 are at this stage pretty even though very different candidates. It will be a lot of test drives next year since I think it will be a tough choice. My wife already drives a 2013 Cayenne which is quite simply superb for what it is. It's a proper SUV so it's not as planted as the M3 but the quality feel in everything is unmatched and it's actually quite fun to hustle. The Macan should be closer to a sedan and more nimble. I'm looking forward to driving one. Buying a Porsche hurts when you are used to deep BMW discounts and relative cheap factory options/packages but you really do get value for your money if you go easy on the options.

What I'm really waiting for is the upcoming new Porsche sedan that will slot in below the Panamera. That should be the answer to the prayers of those of us a bit dispapointed in the F-series BMWs.
I'm in the same boat. From what I hear, the Macan will be a full 375lbs lighter than the Q5. That'll pull it into almost E90 M3 weight, maybe less than the E93 M3.
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      10-28-2013, 02:53 PM   #68
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Heyyyy, this got moved.
l'm really quite excited for the launch details next month. I love my M3 but if I can get virtually the same thing in a light off roader that looks good, I'm sold.

We need more leaks now.
Here you go! Wheel choices are looking better as well!

http://blogs.automotive.com/spied-20...es-153911.html
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      10-28-2013, 02:55 PM   #69
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What I'm really waiting for is the upcoming new Porsche sedan that will slot in below the Panamera. That should be the answer to the prayers of those of us a bit dispapointed in the F-series BMWs.
If Porsche would get moving a small sedan, I would basically be done with BMW. I like the Panamera, but it is huge.
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      10-29-2013, 07:43 AM   #70
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What I'm really waiting for is the upcoming new Porsche sedan that will slot in below the Panamera. That should be the answer to the prayers of those of us a bit dispapointed in the F-series BMWs.
If Porsche would get moving a small sedan, I would basically be done with BMW. I like the Panamera, but it is huge.
Entry level Porsches will definitely eat into BMW's bottom line.
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      10-29-2013, 08:40 AM   #71
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Because they actually know what they're doing and don't just slap stuff together without thinking every aspect and angle through.

Why is it that porsche switched to electric steering but it's still better than everyone else's (but they're own) hydraulic steering? It's the same as above. They simply over engineer what they build and think things through.
I am sorry, but their assisted steering wheel is a joke. The WORST SUV i drove (tested a hybrid S). My buddy has an 09 Cayenne S and that thing is brilliant to drive.

On the flip side though, test drove a Toureg TDI and that thing felt like what the cayenne should have felt in the first place. The Best SUV I have driven. The sad thing is that no dealers here will order a cayenne without that garbage steering system. Too bad, they just lost my business
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      10-29-2013, 10:51 AM   #72
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Price is very reasonable. But why does it look like the size of a tiguan? I noticed it's the Q5 base
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      10-29-2013, 10:57 AM   #73
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I am sorry, but their assisted steering wheel is a joke. The WORST SUV i drove (tested a hybrid S). My buddy has an 09 Cayenne S and that thing is brilliant to drive.

On the flip side though, test drove a Toureg TDI and that thing felt like what the cayenne should have felt in the first place. The Best SUV I have driven. The sad thing is that no dealers here will order a cayenne without that garbage steering system. Too bad, they just lost my business
If you mean Servotronic "Power steering plus" you can order your Cayenne without it, we did. It's only standard on the Turbo. With Porsche you want to order your car to specification since with a dealer car you will pay a lot for options you don't want.
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      10-29-2013, 11:37 AM   #74
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If Porsche would get moving a small sedan, I would basically be done with BMW. I like the Panamera, but it is huge.
Me too...and you know if Porsche could come out with 450 hp 4 door sedan/coupe (smaller Panamera) it would seriously chew up the M3/M4 and into that the way the Panamera taken a serious bite out of the 5/M5/7.

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Entry level Porsches will definitely eat into BMW's bottom line.
As above, correct. Even an entry level panamera (whether you like the looks or not) is a significantly better car than the 5 series and 6 series gc let alone getting into the S and GTS models which not even the M5 is as good to drive.
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      10-29-2013, 12:34 PM   #75
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I read that Porsche stated that the Panamera was built to be a sportier alternative for BMW 7 and Benz S buyers. It is Porsche's first attempt to build a sedan and I say that they did a stellar job since not only does it successfully do what it was designed to do it also competes well with the 5 and 6 series. I would imagine that a smaller sedan built to compete with the 5 series will like it's bigger brother be able to compete one level down with the 3 and 4 series in everything but price. If the "Pajun" sees production it will shake things up for BMW, Benz and Audi. For me, it will likely be a permanent move to Porsche after almost 30 years with BMW since i don't really like what BMW is doing these days. The F80 could be a return to form but that remains to be seen.
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      10-29-2013, 12:42 PM   #76
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Quote:
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Quote:
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I am sorry, but their assisted steering wheel is a joke. The WORST SUV i drove (tested a hybrid S). My buddy has an 09 Cayenne S and that thing is brilliant to drive.

On the flip side though, test drove a Toureg TDI and that thing felt like what the cayenne should have felt in the first place. The Best SUV I have driven. The sad thing is that no dealers here will order a cayenne without that garbage steering system. Too bad, they just lost my business
If you mean Servotronic "Power steering plus" you can order your Cayenne without it, we did. It's only standard on the Turbo. With Porsche you want to order your car to specification since with a dealer car you will pay a lot for options you don't want.
This. Going to be ordering to spec as well. Most lot Porsches have $20k+ in options.
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      10-29-2013, 04:21 PM   #77
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Unlike the successful X6, the X4 will have a very tough rival, in some indirect way, even the M3 has a new rival.
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      10-30-2013, 12:36 AM   #78
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Interesting! I remember mountain biking down foothill years ago and seeing a convoy of caymans before they were released. Perhaps that area is a test route for Porsche.
I've seen couple of Boxters being tested on ROUTE 66 in Glendora prior to it's release. Must be a good hub for testing Porsche. I will keep my eye out, and have my camera ready.

Quote:
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On the flip side though, test drove a Toureg TDI and that thing felt like what the cayenne should have felt in the first place. The Best SUV I have driven. The sad thing is that no dealers here will order a cayenne without that garbage steering system. Too bad, they just lost my business
I, too, test drove a Toureg TDI: was really impressed. Car was so smooth, didn't hear the clunky clunky sound coming from the engine, and had good usable power.
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      10-30-2013, 06:47 AM   #79
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Quote:
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This. Going to be ordering to spec as well. Most lot Porsches have $20k+ in options.
I get that; but unless I get to drive one without that garbage setup; its a no sale... as it stands though I am going the route of the new X5.
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      10-30-2013, 10:32 AM   #80
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Quote:
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This. Going to be ordering to spec as well. Most lot Porsches have $20k+ in options.
Yeah exactly, your chances of walking out with the starting price is zero. Some options are mandatory. the last time I speced out a 911 it gave me four options for seats, all which added money. You couldn't go with "standard" bc that meant you wouldn't have seats. Lol
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      10-30-2013, 10:34 AM   #81
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Quote:
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I get that; but unless I get to drive one without that garbage setup; its a no sale... as it stands though I am going the route of the new X5.
i just picked up a new to me 11 x5d, my second and i like them.
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      10-30-2013, 12:09 PM   #82
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i just picked up a new to me 11 x5d, my second and i like them.
Yeah, but he's complaining about the electronic steering (or at least the assisted steering option) and is picking up an X5 with electronic steering which has been panned as softer than the E70's hydraulic steering.
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      10-30-2013, 12:18 PM   #83
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Quote:
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Yeah, but he's complaining about the electronic steering (or at least the assisted steering option) and is picking up an X5 with electronic steering which has been panned as softer than the E70's hydraulic steering.
I drove both When I say the Cayenne's steering was bad; I mean it was BAD. Both my wife and I hated it. Also, I called around enough dealerships in the area and no one had a car I could drive without this setup.

The X5 electronic steering is MUCH better than the cayenne's.

I must add though the Toureg was brilliant; and I have no doubt in my mind that the Cayenne would have been similar without the servotronic setup; but not being able to drive one before dropping 65K+ makes no sense to me.
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      10-30-2013, 12:21 PM   #84
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The Cayenne has hydraulic steering. Power steering plus ( Servotronic ) is variable assist which I think does include an electric motor in addition to the hydraulic setup. It results in a super light steering at city speeds. The standard steering is not by any means heavy ( much lighter than an E70 or E90 for example ) but feel much better than the plus if you are used to more resistance. I like the Cayenne's standard steering and I hated the fully electric power steering on my F10.
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      10-31-2013, 09:17 PM   #85
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BOOM! Who reads German?
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      10-31-2013, 09:32 PM   #86
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Yeah, saw that earlier today. The turbo is a win!
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      10-31-2013, 10:24 PM   #87
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Quote:
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Yeah, but he's complaining about the electronic steering (or at least the assisted steering option) and is picking up an X5 with electronic steering which has been panned as softer than the E70's hydraulic steering.
Got it, mines an 11 so still an e70 platform. Not a fan of the new one, yet.
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      11-01-2013, 09:59 PM   #88
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I highly doubt there will be a new 3.6 V6 twin turbo, considering that Porsche just develop a 3.0 V6 twin turbo generates 420hp already in the Panamera S. I'm betting that Porsche will just tune the current V6 supercharged engine in the Audi lineup for the Macan S and use the latter for the Turbo version. It just doesn't add up or make sense at this moment.

BTW I think those are good photo shop pics, there no hood line as you can see from the most recent spy pics.

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