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      08-21-2013, 09:36 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawzall View Post
Our understanding is that the strap lengths are different (longer) in order to allow the largest degree of adjustment possible.
The problem with the mini harnesses is that some people had difficulties getting the lap belt tight enough. I'm sure that's the main difference.

While it is BETTER to get the quick fit pro, you CAN use the regular quick fit with a HANS. Just not optimal since the shoulder straps can slip off the bottom of the forks that come down across your collar bone.
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      08-22-2013, 05:44 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
The problem with the mini harnesses is that some people had difficulties getting the lap belt tight enough. I'm sure that's the main difference.

While it is BETTER to get the quick fit pro, you CAN use the regular quick fit with a HANS. Just not optimal since the shoulder straps can slip off the bottom of the forks that come down across your collar bone.
Did you make this up, or did you copy it from the vendors website and repost in the thread for the benefit of those who don't know how hyperlinks work?
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      08-22-2013, 06:35 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sawzall
Quote:
Originally Posted by ydoc View Post
Does anyone know if there will be any real difference (other than a tag on the harness saying is it approved for e9x) from the Mini R55 version?
Our understanding is that the strap lengths are different (longer) in order to allow the largest degree of adjustment possible.
I have zero problem with adjustment with my mini ones. I am 5'11" 190. My wife is 5'4" and a tiny size 2. They work fine for both of us.
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      08-22-2013, 10:45 AM   #26
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Last weekend I had two track days with NASA, after first sesion on second day I was told I can't use these and will have to remove it...
They said I have to have 6 point harness or use OEM belts.
Just FYI...
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      08-22-2013, 09:18 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiM3y View Post
Did you make this up, or did you copy it from the vendors website and repost in the thread for the benefit of those who don't know how hyperlinks work?
Lol...I called HMS Motorsports and asked. Yes, I did pick up the phone and call!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vitiokas95 View Post
Last weekend I had two track days with NASA, after first sesion on second day I was told I can't use these and will have to remove it...
They said I have to have 6 point harness or use OEM belts.
Just FYI...
I think a lot of times that the assumption. Unlike any other 4pt the quick fits have been crash tested. I'd ask HMS before you buy and go race.
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      08-22-2013, 09:19 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surlynkid View Post
I have zero problem with adjustment with my mini ones. I am 5'11" 190. My wife is 5'4" and a tiny size 2. They work fine for both of us.
Mine lap belt is pretty close to running out of adjustment but it works.

Size 2? You're gonna be on the couch tonight buddy!
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      08-23-2013, 09:09 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vitiokas95 View Post
Last weekend I had two track days with NASA, after first sesion on second day I was told I can't use these and will have to remove it...
They said I have to have 6 point harness or use OEM belts.
Just FYI...
WTF.

I run NASA in Jerz.
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      08-23-2013, 09:51 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knolow View Post
WTF.

I run NASA in Jerz.
that's one of the reasons I haven't bothered with this yet. Interestingly enough, NASA NE's tech form makes a point about DOT FMVSS 209, doesn't simply exclude 4pt altogether:


NASA NE
Metal to metal seat belts securely mounted (driver and passenger) 4-POINT harnesses not meeting DOT FMVSS 209 ARE NOT PERMITTED.
5-POINT OR 6-POINT SAFETY HARNESS MAY NOT BE USED WITH STOCK
SEAT UNLESS PASSED BY TECH INSPECTION. The installation of non-factory restraint systems must meet
Manufacturers Safety Specificaions. ON VEHICLES IN WHICH A PASSENGER MAY BE CARRIED (ie:
STUDENTS REQUIRING INSTRUCTORS OR INSTRUCTORS CARRYING STUDENTS), THE DRIVER AND
PASSENGER SEATS AND RESTRAINT SYSTEMS MUST BE MATCHING.


PCA Sch
7. SEAT BELTS / SAFETY HARNESSES: Both driver and passenger must have the same level of
protection in both belts and seats. Harness guide bars must not be used as anchor points for belts. All
harness systems must include a properly secured antisubmarine strap, must be used with a seat having
appropriate routing holes, and should be used in conjunction with properly padded roll bar or cage.
Shoulder strap angle must be no more than 40 deg. from horizontal. No 4-point harnesses allowed.
All cars running with open tops MUST have full harnesses and arm restraints.

PCA RTR
No mention of 4pt on their tech form, skips from 3point factory to 5/6 point race setup in conjunction with rollbar/cage, 4pt prob not allowed here either
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      08-23-2013, 10:29 AM   #31
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I guess with a fully-bolted in system such as Rallye 3 or Rallye 4, you can just clip in the OEM belt anyway.
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      08-23-2013, 11:40 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mid-corner fun View Post
that's one of the reasons I haven't bothered with this yet. Interestingly enough, NASA NE's tech form makes a point about DOT FMVSS 209, doesn't simply exclude 4pt altogether:


NASA NE
Metal to metal seat belts securely mounted (driver and passenger) 4-POINT harnesses not meeting DOT FMVSS 209 ARE NOT PERMITTED.
5-POINT OR 6-POINT SAFETY HARNESS MAY NOT BE USED WITH STOCK
SEAT UNLESS PASSED BY TECH INSPECTION. The installation of non-factory restraint systems must meet
Manufacturers Safety Specificaions. ON VEHICLES IN WHICH A PASSENGER MAY BE CARRIED (ie:
STUDENTS REQUIRING INSTRUCTORS OR INSTRUCTORS CARRYING STUDENTS), THE DRIVER AND
PASSENGER SEATS AND RESTRAINT SYSTEMS MUST BE MATCHING.


PCA Sch
7. SEAT BELTS / SAFETY HARNESSES: Both driver and passenger must have the same level of
protection in both belts and seats. Harness guide bars must not be used as anchor points for belts. All
harness systems must include a properly secured antisubmarine strap, must be used with a seat having
appropriate routing holes, and should be used in conjunction with properly padded roll bar or cage.
Shoulder strap angle must be no more than 40 deg. from horizontal. No 4-point harnesses allowed.
All cars running with open tops MUST have full harnesses and arm restraints.

PCA RTR
No mention of 4pt on their tech form, skips from 3point factory to 5/6 point race setup in conjunction with rollbar/cage, 4pt prob not allowed here either
So how does it work when the website http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/ says it does meet FMVSS209? Will NASA have to let it be used?

This is from the website:
"The difference between Quick Fit and Quick Fit Pro? Quick Fit Pro harnesses have a different geometry and use a central cam lock which allows for use of the HANS device, where the standard Quick Fit is more of a standard 4 point shape using a typical buckle. Both are legal for road use in the USA, conforming to FMVSS209 which regulates primary vehicle restraints"
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      08-23-2013, 11:51 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mid-corner fun View Post
that's one of the reasons I haven't bothered with this yet. Interestingly enough, NASA NE's tech form makes a point about DOT FMVSS 209, doesn't simply exclude 4pt altogether:


NASA NE
Metal to metal seat belts securely mounted (driver and passenger) 4-POINT harnesses not meeting DOT FMVSS 209 ARE NOT PERMITTED.
5-POINT OR 6-POINT SAFETY HARNESS MAY NOT BE USED WITH STOCK
SEAT UNLESS PASSED BY TECH INSPECTION. The installation of non-factory restraint systems must meet
Manufacturers Safety Specificaions. ON VEHICLES IN WHICH A PASSENGER MAY BE CARRIED (ie:
STUDENTS REQUIRING INSTRUCTORS OR INSTRUCTORS CARRYING STUDENTS), THE DRIVER AND
PASSENGER SEATS AND RESTRAINT SYSTEMS MUST BE MATCHING.


PCA Sch
7. SEAT BELTS / SAFETY HARNESSES: Both driver and passenger must have the same level of
protection in both belts and seats. Harness guide bars must not be used as anchor points for belts. All
harness systems must include a properly secured antisubmarine strap, must be used with a seat having
appropriate routing holes, and should be used in conjunction with properly padded roll bar or cage.
Shoulder strap angle must be no more than 40 deg. from horizontal. No 4-point harnesses allowed.
All cars running with open tops MUST have full harnesses and arm restraints.

PCA RTR
No mention of 4pt on their tech form, skips from 3point factory to 5/6 point race setup in conjunction with rollbar/cage, 4pt prob not allowed here either
Regarding PCA, at least with the Lone Star Region, the tech form states "4-point harnesses prohibited except Schroth Quick Fit."
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      08-23-2013, 12:03 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knolow View Post
So how does it work when the website http://www.hmsmotorsport.com/ says it does meet FMVSS209? Will NASA have to let it be used?

This is from the website:
"The difference between Quick Fit and Quick Fit Pro? Quick Fit Pro harnesses have a different geometry and use a central cam lock which allows for use of the HANS device, where the standard Quick Fit is more of a standard 4 point shape using a typical buckle. Both are legal for road use in the USA, conforming to FMVSS209 which regulates primary vehicle restraints"

I would ask the head of tech in writing, way in advance, and if he/she approves I'd have that email handy for tech inspection.
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      08-23-2013, 12:16 PM   #35
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Just spoke to Mike at Schroth he confirms the Quick Fit Series belts conform to DOT FMVSS 209. He also said the manufacturing lable on the seat belt tag states the seat belts meet DOT FMVSS209.

Step 1: Complete (see above)
Step 2: Read NASA Regional and Local Rule Book to see if the only requirement for a 4pt be DOT FMVSS 209 complaince.
Step 3: If the only requirement is complaince... tell the tech who gives a hassle to Fk off.
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      08-23-2013, 12:43 PM   #36
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Just spoke to Joe Casella NASA NE Rep and the seat belts are a go.
I also spoke to Stable Energies (major track store) and they confirmed as well.
Over kill but wanted to make sure they work.
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      08-23-2013, 01:54 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knolow View Post
Just spoke to Joe Casella NASA NE Rep and the seat belts are a go.
I also spoke to Stable Energies (major track store) and they confirmed as well.
Over kill but wanted to make sure they work.
NASA NE is a go!
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      08-23-2013, 03:43 PM   #38
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Quote:
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But, for what these cost they are awesome and keep you very nicely planted. My one tip is spend for the Pro rather than the base model. I got a pro on the drivers side and wish I'd done the same for the passenger side rather than getting the non-pro.
Please say more about the difference between the Pro and non-Pro as I am considering both.
Thanks.
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      08-23-2013, 06:47 PM   #39
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Please say more about the difference between the Pro and non-Pro as I am considering both.
Thanks.
The only difference is the cam lock on the pro. The pro is HANS friendly.

I prefer the non-Pro is it sits lower across your lap. The non-pro doesn't have the right side clip which has the metal tab part of the buckle that sticks out which could be uncomfortable.

I would go with Pro for the driver's side, non-Pro on the pass side. Although a minor detail, I'd check with your local DE orgs to make sure that when they state "equal restraints" that having a pro on one side, a non-pro on the other side still meets that definition. Some instructors that are not familiar with BMWs may question that...as an instructor SHOULD do.
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      08-23-2013, 06:50 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbyrd View Post
Please say more about the difference between the Pro and non-Pro as I am considering both.
Thanks.
There are a few major differences between the QF Pro and QF.

The QF Pro uses a cam buckle (press to release) rather than a standard seat belt buckle, making it easier to get out of during an emergency. The Cam lock also as a provision for a sub-strap, so in the future, you can add a sub-strap and connect them to the Cam, essentially turning the QF Pro into a 5-point harness. The QF cannot have sub-straps added.

Also the QF Pro has been specifically tested with a HANS whereas the QF has not. If you intend to use a HANS, Schroth recommends using the QF Pro, since the belts are angled specifically to fit over a HANS. The GF does not have angled belts for a HANS.

PS. For those in the group buy, you should have received a PM. If not, please let me know.
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      08-23-2013, 06:53 PM   #41
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OK Sawzall, this joke has been going on far too long. The E9X schroth quick fits are still waiting for seat back strength testing...its OK...you can tell us
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      08-23-2013, 07:01 PM   #42
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OK Sawzall, this joke has been going on far too long. The E9X schroth quick fits are still waiting for seat back strength testing...its OK...you can tell us
LOL... We've confirmed with two distributors that they're shipping right at the beginning of September. If they're not ready, we'll strength certify them by hanging me from a set!
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      08-23-2013, 10:05 PM   #43
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Quote:
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The only difference is the cam lock on the pro. The pro is HANS friendly.

I prefer the non-Pro is it sits lower across your lap. The non-pro doesn't have the right side clip which has the metal tab part of the buckle that sticks out which could be uncomfortable.

I would go with Pro for the driver's side, non-Pro on the pass side. Although a minor detail, I'd check with your local DE orgs to make sure that when they state "equal restraints" that having a pro on one side, a non-pro on the other side still meets that definition. Some instructors that are not familiar with BMWs may question that...as an instructor SHOULD do.
Hey Bigjae,
I'm confused - you say you prefer the non-Pro, then recommend the Pro. Please clarify. I don't currently use a HANS device and my DD only sees the track about 5 x/year.

BTW, I saw you at CoTA, but I didn't get a chance to stop by. Will you be at MSR for the 3.1 in 2 weeks? Hope to see you there.
Thanks,
Daniel
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      08-23-2013, 10:29 PM   #44
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Quote:
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Hey Bigjae,
I'm confused - you say you prefer the non-Pro, then recommend the Pro. Please clarify. I don't currently use a HANS device and my DD only sees the track about 5 x/year.
Correct I use a HANS so I own a pro. What I like better about the non-pro is you can get the lap belt lower across your hips which, IMO, is more comfortable.

You CAN use a HANS with the non-pro but the straps will tend to slide off the bottom of the hans.

HANS or if you think you'll ever use a HANS, get a pro.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbyrd View Post
BTW, I saw you at CoTA, but I didn't get a chance to stop by. Will you be at MSR for the 3.1 in 2 weeks? Hope to see you there.
Thanks,
Daniel
Yup, I'll be there at MSR. What group are you in?
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