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      08-12-2013, 06:40 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim B. View Post
I think for the most part ya'll are both saying the same thing but just in different ways......as I tend to agree with both of you
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      08-12-2013, 06:54 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by M3/4 life View Post
Yeah, and I understand that the GT-R, GT3 & R8 are indeed supercars with super price tags whereas the M3 was built with a totally different protocol in mind. I guess my point is or maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part is that to be as practical a dd as the M3 is; it's not that far behind these supercars. And if BMW wanted to push the envelope with the next generation M I think it would be very intriguing to say the least as to what they could create. I mean if Toyota can build a supercar in the LFA surely BMW can make the M compete with Porsche with a tweak here & there. But like I said maybe it's just wishful thinking on my part........
I have no doubt the new M3/4 will be faster but I guarantee it will not be fast enough to best the cars you mention. Not without modifications.

I just hope BMW doesn't go backwards and make it softer like the F30 is compared to the E90. I get the feeling that may well be the case.

BMW needs a purpose built super car to compete with the big boys if it wants to play in that space. BMW can definitely do it but it won't be profitable and so they probably won't pursue it at this time. They are more interested in the i-series hybrid and electric cars...
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      08-12-2013, 07:46 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z K View Post
I have no doubt the new M3/4 will be faster but I guarantee it will not be fast enough to best the cars you mention. Not without modifications.

I just hope BMW doesn't go backwards and make it softer like the F30 is compared to the E90. I get the feeling that may well be the case.

BMW needs a purpose built super car to compete with the big boys if it wants to play in that space. BMW can definitely do it but it won't be profitable and so they probably won't pursue it at this time. They are more interested in the i-series hybrid and electric cars...
If they were to go backwards that would indeed be a tremendous disappointment & heart break for us die hard M fans!
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      08-14-2013, 12:57 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Z K View Post
It isn't that. Go drive an 911 GT3 and drive an M3. The GT3 just feels so much more in tune. It feels like an extension of your arms and legs. A M3 is numb compared to that. The steering is distant - not as precise, the feeling of the road is muted to make it more comfortable and the handling is just not as good. Even a big pig of a car like the GT-R feels much more connected and sporty compared to the M3. Weight and power are just numbers, they do not convey what a car feels like to drive.

The M3 is just not made for that kind of purpose, because of the balance it needs to achieve, it is a compromised car. To make it more like the other cars you mentioned, it'd need to have some major changes - stiffer, less comfortable, lighter, smaller, quicker steering, uncomfortable seats, more road noise etc. That won't sit well with the majority of M3 buyers.
Isn't this all incredibly obvious stuff? It's kind of like saying that a trophy truck is just simply put a lot better at hardcore offroading compared to the poser Raptor. The raptor is compromised because it is supposed to be driven on public roads as well as the spirited drive through terrain to hit your favorite surfing spot in mexico.

I don't get why comparisons are made from GT3 to M3 ever. In stock form they are SO different. In virtually every major way. The GT3 is a one trick pony. It's an EPIC track car and flat out dogshit for daily use or public roads, particularly LA roads. I'd be embarrassed to take a girl out in a GT3. Cool girls don't give style points to a car that is bumpy and feels like you ran over a curb every time you hit a reflector.
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      08-14-2013, 01:20 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Edward View Post
Isn't this all incredibly obvious stuff? It's kind of like saying that a trophy truck is just simply put a lot better at hardcore offroading compared to the poser Raptor. The raptor is compromised because it is supposed to be driven on public roads as well as the spirited drive through terrain to hit your favorite surfing spot in mexico.

I don't get why comparisons are made from GT3 to M3 ever. In stock form they are SO different. In virtually every major way. The GT3 is a one trick pony. It's an EPIC track car and flat out dogshit for daily use or public roads, particularly LA roads. I'd be embarrassed to take a girl out in a GT3. Cool girls don't give style points to a car that is bumpy and feels like you ran over a curb every time you hit a reflector.
I think it’s because the GT3 is considered the Ultimate Porsche & I’ve noticed that a lot of M3 owners jump ship & head over to Porsche. As well as the fact that a lot of M3 owners track their M3’s, so with that thought in mind and the new M4 around the corner wishful thinking would love to see the daily driver M3/ M4 kick Porsche ass on the track! For when you look at our current E9x platform at around $75,000 fully loaded it’s not that far behind the $130,000 + Porsche. You put about $25,000 (supercharger, BBK, coilovers, tune & exhaust) in the M3 & not only would it still be a great daily driver but it would also take care of its business at the track!

In stock form of course you have to give Porsche its props however, a modded M3 (which is still cheaper than a stock Porsche) will give the Porsche a run for its money IMHO!

Although I could be a little bias
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      08-14-2013, 02:41 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3/4 life View Post
I think it’s because the GT3 is considered the Ultimate Porsche & I’ve noticed that a lot of M3 owners jump ship & head over to Porsche. As well as the fact that a lot of M3 owners track their M3’s, so with that thought in mind and the new M4 around the corner wishful thinking would love to see the daily driver M3/ M4 kick Porsche ass on the track! For when you look at our current E9x platform at around $75,000 fully loaded it’s not that far behind the $130,000 + Porsche. You put about $25,000 (supercharger, BBK, coilovers, tune & exhaust) in the M3 & not only would it still be a great daily driver but it would also take care of its business at the track!

In stock form of course you have to give Porsche its props however, a modded M3 (which is still cheaper than a stock Porsche) will give the Porsche a run for its money IMHO!

Although I could be a little bias
every car modded will give another stock car a run for its money. I never really like to say stuff like that. its always cheaper to mod a car faster than a more expensive car. (so what)

but a lot of 130k 911 owners want a 911. not a modded car. although i agree a modded M3 the way you mention would kick some ass. i envy those guys with supercharged m3s!
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      08-14-2013, 03:25 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezio View Post
every car modded will give another stock car a run for its money. I never really like to say stuff like that. its always cheaper to mod a car faster than a more expensive car. (so what)

True for the most part however, they're exceptions

but a lot of 130k 911 owners want a 911. not a modded car. although i agree a modded M3 the way you mention would kick some ass. i envy those guys with supercharged m3s!
I feel the same about my M3 I would never supercharge her, I love her being a NA V8, however with the new M3/M4 around the corner coming from the factory with twin turbos all you would need is possibly a tune (hopefully the next gen. will come with better brakes) to keep pace!

Again just me being naive! I’m an M3 fanatic; I’ve loved every M3 they’ve ever made!
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      08-14-2013, 03:46 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by M3/4 life View Post
I feel the same about my M3 I would never supercharge her, I love her being a NA V8, however with the new M3/M4 around the corner coming from the factory with twin turbos all you would need is possibly a tune (hopefully the next gen. will come with better brakes) to keep pace!

Again just me being naive! I’m an M3 fanatic; I’ve loved every M3 they’ve ever made!
well let me bring you to another side to this.

MOST people are not going to tune. Most people buying cars like ours are not buying them with tuning capabilities in mind. of course some do though!

i agree the car is going to be way more tune happy though.

the biggest problem with the new m3 is that BMW went with a new philosophy ( turbos ) with a brand new engine. Its a change, people don't like change!

I need more from a car than power, i don't care how much power i can get from a tune. I need to really enjoy the engine noise and i wanna say "Spirit" of the car. the e9x had that factor which i love. small V8 that revvs and makes a sound i love! Its about how the car makes me feel.

I worry this new car will not give the same special feeling. Again more power doesn't always me "win" ... well maybe in a muscle car it does.
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      08-14-2013, 04:04 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezio View Post
well let me bring you to another side to this.

MOST people are not going to tune. Most people buying cars like ours are not buying them with tuning capabilities in mind. of course some do though!

i agree the car is going to be way more tune happy though.

the biggest problem with the new m3 is that BMW went with a new philosophy ( turbos ) with a brand new engine. Its a change, people don't like change!

I need more from a car than power, i don't care how much power i can get from a tune. I need to really enjoy the engine noise and i wanna say "Spirit" of the car. the e9x had that factor which i love. small V8 that revvs and makes a sound i love! Its about how the car makes me feel.

I worry this new car will not give the same special feeling. Again more power doesn't always me "win" ... well maybe in a muscle car it does.
I truly feel the same, I don’t think I’ll ever part with my current E92 M3 (at least not anytime in the near future) I love the sound of the V8; it’s truly a special car!

To be honest I’m a little turned off by the switch to the turbo setup as well, (however in an attempt to be optimistic) I would be lying if I said I wasn’t curious to see the performance numbers on the new M4 & how it stacks up around the track compared to my e92!

As a fan of the M3, I guess deep down I’m rooting for the M4 & hoping BMW doesn’t mess it up the way they did the last generation M5! Again wishful thinking on my part!
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      08-14-2013, 05:55 AM   #32
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I'm a ///M fan and all but I don't think a 2013 ZCP E90/2 M3 is able to keep up with a 996 GT3 Mk II which is 2004.

My 08 E92 M3 clocks 59 seconds at the local track. 996 GT3 MK II was sub 2 secs quicker on the same day, same out lap as I am. And I compete twice a month on hill climbs in a Evo 9 dedicated track car.

I was driving at 8/10 and I honestly don't think 9/10 or 10/10 will make much difference. I had nothing on the 996 around the corners. Tried trail braking deeper into the corner to try and get my car to pivot, use power to turn did not work either. etc.

I don't think its so much about the technological differences but rather its just that they are 2 completely different cars. And I haven't even talked about a 997.

Just a matter of personal opinion, throwing money at the M3 to bring it up to GT3 pace isn't a fair comparison. All vehicles with any or comparable amount of money thrown at it will be faster. IE WRX to STi, Elise to Exige, 335 to M3.

Question is how reliable will a tuned car be ?

Don't be fixated on 996 MKII and 997 power figures. They may seem low but most times it just isn't about the horsepower.
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      08-16-2013, 12:18 AM   #33
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This should get very interesting!!!!
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      08-16-2013, 08:29 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3/4 life View Post
I feel the same about my M3 I would never supercharge her, I love her being a NA V8, however with the new M3/M4 around the corner coming from the factory with twin turbos all you would need is possibly a tune (hopefully the next gen. will come with better brakes) to keep pace!

D
I think that's a fair assessment when it comes to straight line speed. that said, the size, weight and traction advantage of even a 997.1 gt3 is extremely hard to compete with for an m3, even a modded one unless you have heavy mods. and the more technical the track, the more of a disadvantage the m3 is at.

that said, the m3 is better than the 997 gt3 in a lot of ways as well. its easier to live with every day, more comfortable, and has a fun dual personality. the car in stock form is more than enough for the vast majority of drivers who go to the track, myself included. the fact that the m3 is available at a much lower price point is icing on the cake.

I think the segment of cars such as the rs5, m3 and c63 are some of the best cars for sale for guys like me. guys who use them as DD cars, with some track use too. having a less expensive car on the track is a lot less scary
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      08-16-2013, 02:53 PM   #35
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I don't own an m3 so I can't directly comment, however bmw has already made the switch from na to fi on the m5/6. People are commenting that the f10 to e60 is like a porsche turbo to a gt3. But honestly, as much as I am an advocate for na power, there really is no argument against the increase in economy, huge amounts of torque, and drivability of fi motors, especially ones designed by M for track use. When this m3 comes out, I'll be saying goodbye to my s85 that puts down 465 whp.
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      09-24-2013, 07:04 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M3/4 life View Post
I’m really interested in seeing how the 2015 M4 with twin turbo’s is going to stack up to the Porsche, when you look at the numbers the Porsche which cost $40,000 to $60,000 more than the dated e9x platform M3 isn’t beating the M3 by much! So to all who are jumping ship & going over to Porsche aren’t you’ll just a little curious that you might be jumping ship a little too soon? From what I understand the new M4 is going to be lighter & have a lot more torque as well as hp compared to our e9x M3, not to mention the fact of the ease of tuning the new M4 (being turbo & all)

I was reading an article about the new M5 (with the V8 twin turbo setup) in the May issue of European Car which came from the factory with 560hp with a tune it was putting out 646hp & 570 lb-ft…..just sayin! I’m not all that thrilled about the M3 being called the M4 or the fact that we’re losing our NA V8 but a twin turbo 6 M changes the game.

When you look at the New Porsche GT3 (arguably the best Porsche in production) curb weight 3,153 475 hp 325 lb-ft msrp $130,400. Then we have the Audi R8 in full trim curb weight 3,605 5.2 liter FSI® V10 550 hp 398 lb-ft. msrp $170,000. And the Nissan GTR curb weight 3,829 545hp 463lb-ft. msrp $99,590

In pure speculation let’s just throw out some numbers, let say the new M4 comes in at a curb weight of 3,400 460hp 375lb-ft msrp $75,000 (those number are very realistic) with a $1500 tune it would kick ass (if you assume the tune would be good for about 100hp increase & a gain of 75 to 100 lb-ft) The GT3, GTR & the R8 which would be almost double the price (except for the GTR which comes in at $25,000 more) would be in the cross hairs of the M4!

I guess what I’m saying is before I can jump ship I have to at least see the numbers on the M4! I love my M3….. is it the fastest? No! However, imho it’s the most well rounded sports car you can buy, the question at hand is will the new M4 make up for it not being the fastest?
Official BMW M3 M4 Specs: 430HP, 369LB-FT, Under 3306 Pounds, Bi-Turbo Inline 6 Cyl

ENGINE•Inline 6 cylinder engine with two mono-scroll turbochargers◦Direct Injection
◦VALVETRONIC
◦Double-VANOS
◦closed-decked crankcase
◦twin-wire arc-spray coating (instead of liners) in cylinder bores reduce engine weight

•430 HP (approximately)
•369+ LB-FT (500 Nm)
•See Dyno Chart
•Higher than 7500 RPM redline

TURBOS•Two mono-scroll turbochargers
•Impulse charging for optimized responsiveness
•Flow-enhanced manifolds
•Electric wastegate actuator

COOLING•Double-flow oil recirculation pumps
•Turbocharger suction system
•Main radiator plus additional radiators for the high- and low-temperature circuits, turbocharger and transmission,
•Large indirect intercooler
•Low-weight magnesium oil sump
•Temperature-stabilizing electric water pump

WEIGHT •Under 3,306 lb (1500kg) weight ◦no mention if this is curb weight and no specifics provided as to what equipment included/not included in figure
◦but, it is mentioned that "the new model is now around 80 kilograms lighter than a comparably equipped predecessor model" [80kg = 176 lbs
and the E92 M3 was 3,704 unladen on the BMW US website]
◦compare to E46 M3 at ~3,400 lb curb weight
◦compare to E92 M3 at ~3,600 lb curb weight
◦compare to C63 AMG at ~3,900 lb curb weight
◦compare to RS5 at ~4,000 lb curb weight

•~ 7.68 lb/hp power to weight ◦compare to E92 M3 at 8.7
◦compare to C63 AMG at 8.7
◦compare to RS5 at 9.0
◦compare to E46 M3 at 10.25

•Fuel consumption and emissions reduction of 25%

CARBON FIBER CONSTRUCTION•CFRP drive shaft◦40% weight savings over previous M3
◦increased stiffness
◦reduced rotating mass for better acceleration and throttle response

•CFRP roof for both M3 and M4◦saves 11 pounds (5kg) on M3
◦saves more than 13.2 pounds (6kg) on M4

•CFRP roof bow
•Carbon fiber trunk for M4 (11 pounds (5kg) weight savings)
•CFRP front strut brace standard (weighs just 3.3 pounds (1.5 kg))

TRANSMISSION
•Standard 6 speed manual transmission ◦automatic throttle blips on downshift
◦more compact and quieter than predecessor E90/E92 M3 6 speed
◦26.4 pounds (12kg) lighter
◦carbon fiber friction linings in synchroniser rings
◦dry sump lubrication

•Optional 7 speed M DCT (double clutch transmission) with launch control
•Active M Differential (with constantly variable locking a la M5/M6)
•Forged crankshaft

STEERING•Electric power steering specially tuned for M3/M4
•Servotronic function electronically adjusts the level of steering assistance
•Three modes: Comfort, Sport, Sport+

SUSPENSION / CHASSIS•Optional Adaptive M suspension (with Comfort, Sport, Sport+ modes)
•CFRP front strut brace
•Double-joint spring strut front axle (saves 11 pounds)
•New five-link rear axle made from forged aluminum (saves 6.6 pounds)
•Aluminum suspension
•Aluminium stiffening plate
•Rear axle subframe fixed directly to body (bolted joints between the axle subframe and the body sills, without use of elastic rubber elements).

WHEELS / BRAKES•Lightweight forged wheels standard
•Staggered tire sizes
•M compound brakes standard (in blue)
•M carbon ceramic brakes optional (in gold)

EXHAUST•Exhaust features electrically controlled flaps just before rear silencer to minimize exhaust back-pressure as well as giving precise feedback on engine load.

AERO•50:50 weight distribution
•Air Curtain
•M gills with integrated Air Breather behind front wheels

MISC•M3 and M4 to be introduced together (at Detroit NAIAS 2014 in January).
•M3 and M4 developed with help of BMW race car drivers Bruno Spengler and Timo Glock's participation in extensive testing and set- up runs on the Nürburgring-Nordschleife circuit, focusing on assessment of the cars’ suspension, tyres and all elements of the powertrain.

I wasn't to far off
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      09-24-2013, 10:02 PM   #37
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The official figures list the m4 being 80kg or 176lbs lighter than the current m3 which is approx 3700 lbs so....
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      09-25-2013, 01:25 PM   #38
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The official figures list the m4 being 80kg or 176lbs lighter than the current m3 which is approx 3700 lbs so....
The predecessor being referred to is the e46 M3!
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      09-25-2013, 01:45 PM   #39
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I've always wondered about tuning with FI engines. With N/A engines, I have yet to hear of a tune to give warranty problems, actually it cannot be detected at the dealership level to raise red flags (if keep RPM limit and cold start intact). Are FI tunes any different or once you increase boost, is captured in freeze-frame and is a dead giveway?

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3/4 life View Post
I’m really interested in seeing how the 2015 M4 with twin turbo’s is going to stack up to the Porsche, when you look at the numbers the Porsche which cost $40,000 to $60,000 more than the dated e9x platform M3 isn’t beating the M3 by much! So to all who are jumping ship & going over to Porsche aren’t you’ll just a little curious that you might be jumping ship a little too soon? From what I understand the new M4 is going to be lighter & have a lot more torque as well as hp compared to our e9x M3, not to mention the fact of the ease of tuning the new M4 (being turbo & all)

I was reading an article about the new M5 (with the V8 twin turbo setup) in the May issue of European Car which came from the factory with 560hp with a tune it was putting out 646hp & 570 lb-ft…..just sayin! I’m not all that thrilled about the M3 being called the M4 or the fact that we’re losing our NA V8 but a twin turbo 6 M changes the game.

When you look at the New Porsche GT3 (arguably the best Porsche in production) curb weight 3,153 475 hp 325 lb-ft msrp $130,400. Then we have the Audi R8 in full trim curb weight 3,605 5.2 liter FSI® V10 550 hp 398 lb-ft. msrp $170,000. And the Nissan GTR curb weight 3,829 545hp 463lb-ft. msrp $99,590

In pure speculation let’s just throw out some numbers, let say the new M4 comes in at a curb weight of 3,400 460hp 375lb-ft msrp $75,000 (those number are very realistic) with a $1500 tune it would kick ass (if you assume the tune would be good for about 100hp increase & a gain of 75 to 100 lb-ft) The GT3, GTR & the R8 which would be almost double the price (except for the GTR which comes in at $25,000 more) would be in the cross hairs of the M4!

I guess what I’m saying is before I can jump ship I have to at least see the numbers on the M4! I love my M3….. is it the fastest? No! However, imho it’s the most well rounded sports car you can buy, the question at hand is will the new M4 make up for it not being the fastest?
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      09-25-2013, 01:54 PM   #40
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Def wont get 100hp out of a tune from the 3.0l N55.
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      09-25-2013, 02:12 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by mawana View Post
The predecessor being referred to is the e46 M3!
I very much doubt it will be lighter than an E46 given today's safety standards and level of interior equipment add-ons.
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      09-25-2013, 03:53 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by M3/4 life View Post
I’m really interested in seeing how the 2015 M4 with twin turbo’s is going to stack up to the Porsche, when you look at the numbers the Porsche which cost $40,000 to $60,000 more than the dated e9x platform M3 isn’t beating the M3 by much! So to all who are jumping ship & going over to Porsche aren’t you’ll just a little curious that you might be jumping ship a little too soon? From what I understand the new M4 is going to be lighter & have a lot more torque as well as hp compared to our e9x M3, not to mention the fact of the ease of tuning the new M4 (being turbo & all)

I was reading an article about the new M5 (with the V8 twin turbo setup) in the May issue of European Car which came from the factory with 560hp with a tune it was putting out 646hp & 570 lb-ft…..just sayin! I’m not all that thrilled about the M3 being called the M4 or the fact that we’re losing our NA V8 but a twin turbo 6 M changes the game.

When you look at the New Porsche GT3 (arguably the best Porsche in production) curb weight 3,153 475 hp 325 lb-ft msrp $130,400. Then we have the Audi R8 in full trim curb weight 3,605 5.2 liter FSI® V10 550 hp 398 lb-ft. msrp $170,000. And the Nissan GTR curb weight 3,829 545hp 463lb-ft. msrp $99,590

In pure speculation let’s just throw out some numbers, let say the new M4 comes in at a curb weight of 3,400 460hp 375lb-ft msrp $75,000 (those number are very realistic) with a $1500 tune it would kick ass (if you assume the tune would be good for about 100hp increase & a gain of 75 to 100 lb-ft) The GT3, GTR & the R8 which would be almost double the price (except for the GTR which comes in at $25,000 more) would be in the cross hairs of the M4!

I guess what I’m saying is before I can jump ship I have to at least see the numbers on the M4! I love my M3….. is it the fastest? No! However, imho it’s the most well rounded sports car you can buy, the question at hand is will the new M4 make up for it not being the fastest?
Lot of wishful dreams here, no offense. There is a reason why even a 10-12 year old 996 GT3 outperforms a current day M3! Theres a reason why the GT3 is revered as the best motorsport car in the world. Theres a reason why when BMW came out with the M3 GTS it miserably failed to compete with even a 5 year old 997.1 GT3.

Porsche makes the single best road going cars in the world that can also be daily driven. Not question about it. They test their cars harder and more intensely than anyone, bar none.

If you think a GT3 (which is a seriously fast straight line car) is all about straight line speed, youve got it so wrong. No other car in the world will ever provide the same experience. The feel, the precision and the sound (best this side of an F car v8) are industry bests and why the 997 won Best Car of the Year, and Best Driver's Car of the year and pretty much embarassed everyone elses cars in every way.

The 991 is a game changer. It is the single best all around performance money can buy until the turbo and other models come out. Just look at how it destroyed the competition 2 years in a row in MT's Best Driver's Car. But at the same time Porsche makes a highly customizable high end car with relatively low production, so prices are high as well.

And comparing modded to stock is assanine. You could take a civic and beat every super/hyper car out there but it doesnt change the fact its a civic. The M3 is a great car, this is my 4th M3, but its no Porsche or Ferrari, or Aston etc.

And as far as e9x m3 vs 991, look again. The 991S runs high elevens and traps 118 and it does it with only 400 hp. It is faster than the new C7 vette with an underrated 460 hp and tons more tq. The M3 is a 112 mph (at best) trap car. The M4 will likely be close in a straight (~117 mph) but wont touch one on the track. Also, the e9x M3 rang the Ring in 8:05, whereas the 991S is 7:37, which is faster than anything Bmws ever been able to run with ANY production car. Hell, even the 997.2 S ran 7:50. The new M4 will not come close to this, even the M3 GTS doesnt come close.

I could go on but you get the idea.

Plus 475 hp in the new GT3 will be like 550-575 in anyother car. And look at how they got that power, 3.8 liter, NA revving to 9000 rpms. That is a masterpiece of engineering to say the least.

Last edited by Wolfinwolfsclothing; 09-25-2013 at 03:59 PM.
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      09-25-2013, 05:40 PM   #43
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I'm a ///M fan and all but I don't think a 2013 ZCP E90/2 M3 is able to keep up with a 996 GT3 Mk II which is 2004.

My 08 E92 M3 clocks 59 seconds at the local track. 996 GT3 MK II was sub 2 secs quicker on the same day, same out lap as I am. And I compete twice a month on hill climbs in a Evo 9 dedicated track car.

I was driving at 8/10 and I honestly don't think 9/10 or 10/10 will make much difference. I had nothing on the 996 around the corners. Tried trail braking deeper into the corner to try and get my car to pivot, use power to turn did not work either. etc.

I don't think its so much about the technological differences but rather its just that they are 2 completely different cars. And I haven't even talked about a 997.

Just a matter of personal opinion, throwing money at the M3 to bring it up to GT3 pace isn't a fair comparison. All vehicles with any or comparable amount of money thrown at it will be faster. IE WRX to STi, Elise to Exige, 335 to M3.

Question is how reliable will a tuned car be ?

Don't be fixated on 996 MKII and 997 power figures. They may seem low but most times it just isn't about the horsepower.

Does anyone notice how nice it is to look at a 911 from any angle?

I had a 2001 C4 for 13 years with 120K miles and was never tired of it. I bought a 2011 M3 Sedan for 6 month and I have been to the dealer more times then I had in the 13 years with the Porsche, and I missed the 911 already. Only 2 track days the M3 is falling apart, new shocks in the back, new front Rotor and pads, I track the C4 5x more and only went through two sets of rotors and maybe 4-5 sets of pads. One more thing is M3 only matched the same lap time as the C4 with 115 HP less, maybe I need more than 2 track days to get used to the M3.

I'm ready to go back to the 911 anytime now
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      09-25-2013, 07:13 PM   #44
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you guys think the new m3 will run hot because of the turbos and have cooling issues?
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